Beccariophoenix Alfredii, recently transplanted

[Golden10]

So I got a good deal on this approx 10ft Beccariophoenix Alfredii. Purchased a couple months ago and paid for installation. Well fast forward a couple frosts and the FL hard freeze and the nursary never called, and I was cool with that, heck I was cool with them holding it until March especially with the recent cold snap, didn’t want to disturb the root system 

well they called two days ago with no prior warning  “we’ve got it loaded and would like to deliver today” so I really had no choice. Still alive obviously but I’m concerned about the burned fronds a the transplant, in fact I feel they under exaggerated how burnt it got. Am I crazy for thinking it a little unprofessional of the nursary to deliver it in this state given it was not burnt at all when purchased. 

Anyways it’s in the ground at my place and I guess I’m looking for reassurance and care going forward.  I was very excited to find it and now I’m worried about it 

below is before and after 

[SeanK]

I was a little confused at first, but I guess the photos posted out-of-order. If the spear is good I guess it'll be fine. Warm temps this week throughout Florida. Looks like a little bit of scale but there's time to get the palm looking nice again.

[Golden10]

5 minutes ago, SeanK said:

I was a little confused at first, but I guess the photos posted out-of-order. If the spear is good I guess it'll be fine. Warm temps this week throughout Florida. Looks like a little bit of scale but there's time to get the palm looking nice again.

Yeah sorry the photos did show up out of order. 
 

yeah I just don’t get why they would dig it up so quick after a hard freeze….then again to rid their liability of the palm. Honestly wasn’t expecting an alfredii of this size to take such burn. Guess it will either not make it or look like crap for a long time 

[SeanK]

1 hour ago, Golden10 said:

Yeah sorry the photos did show up out of order. 
 

yeah I just don’t get why they would dig it up so quick after a hard freeze….then again to rid their liability of the palm. Honestly wasn’t expecting an alfredii of this size to take such burn. Guess it will either not make it or look like crap for a long time 

Just don't over fertilize.

[sonoranfans]

I would not fertilize with NPK prills till june.  For now you could use fish emulsion(5-1-1) and dilute humic acid once a month.  THe roots have been cut so they will have to regrow, no sense in dumping NPK on the palm.  I think it may be OK, what was your low temp?  

[Golden10]

2 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

I would not fertilize with NPK prills till june.  For now you could use fish emulsion(5-1-1) and dilute humic acid once a month.  THe roots have been cut so they will have to regrow, no sense in dumping NPK on the palm.  I think it may be OK, what was your low temp?  

I believe where it was planted could’ve seen as low as 23-25. IMO they should’ve just left it in the ground until spring but that’s a liability and eyesore to them, they probably wanted to dump it so they didn’t have to deal with it. Lesson learned on buying palms in early winter, here I thought oh it will be fine it’s cold hardy, Who could’ve predicted a record freeze a month or so later.

below is a couple photos from today without the exaggerated sunlight of the frond condition and spear condition. I do spray some of the bone neem oil on some of the scale, not sure how much good it will do 

[sonoranfans]

It will take a few weeks to know if it survives, 23-25F may be enough to kill one if cold persists long enough.  Keep an eye out for spear pull and I would use peroxide/ daconil on the bud area.  Hard to believe they delivered a palm with that much cold damage.  Best of luck with survival and recovery.

[Golden10]

1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

It will take a few weeks to know if it survives, 23-25F may be enough to kill one if cold persists long enough.  Keep an eye out for spear pull and I would use peroxide/ daconil on the bud area.  Hard to believe they delivered a palm with that much cold damage.  Best of luck with survival and recovery.

Appreciate the advice. For the time being I will watch the condition of the spear I guess. Assuming it will turn fully brown or mushy if badly damaged. I will try the fish emulsion as well

[FlaPalmLover]

Some lessons have to be learned the hard way. Prioritizing instant gratification often just leads to punishment in the long run, when it comes to plants (and other things in life, of course). I bought a copernicia fallaensis in the middle of the winter a couple of years ago. It had an infection when I got it, unbeknownst to me, and it never really fully recovered from that. I will be adding it to the mulch pile soon. I was all excited when I got it because it looked nice and I couldn't help but to envision what it could look like one day. I, like you, thought I was getting a good deal.

I also got a beccariophoenix alfredii that was about that size two years ago. It was way overgrown for its pot and its roots were badly entangled in the pot. I thought I was getting a good deal because of how tall and overgrown it was for its pot size. I tried transplanting it all on my own without the help of any landscaper or nursery employee, too. It's now about ready for the mulch pile itself. It never really took hold in its current location and was an extremely slow grower. Then the cold snap this winter finally took it out for good. Now, both of these palms were planted in my backyard, which seems to not be as favorable in general for palms... Anything planted in my front yard seems to grow better, for whatever reason.

Point is, regardless, there's a method to buying palms in a way that leads to success. It's best to avoid buying things in the middle of the cold season. It's also best to avoid transplanting things in a way that causes root damage. In most cases, it's better to buy small. In this case, it may seem like the nursery screwed you over, but you also shouldn't really be palm shopping in December. And most nurseries won't stop you from yourself - if you're about to do something unwise they (mostly) won't lose out on an opportunity to make some money. Maybe this one makes it, and maybe it doesn't, but it's all part of the process of learning how to grow palms.

[Golden10]

5 hours ago, FlaPalmLover said:

Some lessons have to be learned the hard way. Prioritizing instant gratification often just leads to punishment in the long run, when it comes to plants (and other things in life, of course). I bought a copernicia fallaensis in the middle of the winter a couple of years ago. It had an infection when I got it, unbeknownst to me, and it never really fully recovered from that. I will be adding it to the mulch pile soon. I was all excited when I got it because it looked nice and I couldn't help but to envision what it could look like one day. I, like you, thought I was getting a good deal.

I also got a beccariophoenix alfredii that was about that size two years ago. It was way overgrown for its pot and its roots were badly entangled in the pot. I thought I was getting a good deal because of how tall and overgrown it was for its pot size. I tried transplanting it all on my own without the help of any landscaper or nursery employee, too. It's now about ready for the mulch pile itself. It never really took hold in its current location and was an extremely slow grower. Then the cold snap this winter finally took it out for good. Now, both of these palms were planted in my backyard, which seems to not be as favorable in general for palms... Anything planted in my front yard seems to grow better, for whatever reason.

Point is, regardless, there's a method to buying palms in a way that leads to success. It's best to avoid buying things in the middle of the cold season. It's also best to avoid transplanting things in a way that causes root damage. In most cases, it's better to buy small. In this case, it may seem like the nursery screwed you over, but you also shouldn't really be palm shopping in December. And most nurseries won't stop you from yourself - if you're about to do something unwise they (mostly) won't lose out on an opportunity to make some money. Maybe this one makes it, and maybe it doesn't, but it's all part of the process of learning how to grow palms.

Agree with most of what you said and I have learned a lesson here, mostly on buying in winter and who I give business to. , however, from a customer service standpoint there also is a duty to take due care  when someone has invested money into something. Like not digging up a field grown 10 ft palm that just went through a cold snap, or attempting protection of some sort, could’ve been dug and placed in their large  greenhouse or something and delivered the following week if they needed to get rid of it that bad . You saw the before photo as well. IMO the damage/loss should be on the business, especially  since it was still in their ground. It’s not like I bought it before the freeze and had them plant it in my yard. It was in their yard during the freeze where opportunity to protect myself wasn’t an option, I know some nursary owners won’t agree, to them it’s  business and sales which to an extent I understand. I’m just a retail guy and not a big landscape wholesale buy for them but I’m still a paying customer. Bottom line is this palm was not in this condition when purchased, and if I ran a nursary and someone put a deposit on one of my palms I would never have expected them to take the palm in that condition, and I’ve had several nursary owners agree with me on that. I have been in talks with the bursary however their position is “it’s in shock and will recover” of course 

[sonoranfans]

11 hours ago, FlaPalmLover said:

Some lessons have to be learned the hard way. Prioritizing instant gratification often just leads to punishment in the long run, when it comes to plants (and other things in life, of course). I bought a copernicia fallaensis in the middle of the winter a couple of years ago. It had an infection when I got it, unbeknownst to me, and it never really fully recovered from that. I will be adding it to the mulch pile soon. I was all excited when I got it because it looked nice and I couldn't help but to envision what it could look like one day. I, like you, thought I was getting a good deal.

I also got a beccariophoenix alfredii that was about that size two years ago. It was way overgrown for its pot and its roots were badly entangled in the pot. I thought I was getting a good deal because of how tall and overgrown it was for its pot size. I tried transplanting it all on my own without the help of any landscaper or nursery employee, too. It's now about ready for the mulch pile itself. It never really took hold in its current location and was an extremely slow grower. Then the cold snap this winter finally took it out for good. Now, both of these palms were planted in my backyard, which seems to not be as favorable in general for palms... Anything planted in my front yard seems to grow better, for whatever reason.

Point is, regardless, there's a method to buying palms in a way that leads to success. It's best to avoid buying things in the middle of the cold season. It's also best to avoid transplanting things in a way that causes root damage. In most cases, it's better to buy small. In this case, it may seem like the nursery screwed you over, but you also shouldn't really be palm shopping in December. And most nurseries won't stop you from yourself - if you're about to do something unwise they (mostly) won't lose out on an opportunity to make some money. Maybe this one makes it, and maybe it doesn't, but it's all part of the process of learning how to grow palms.

I have never planted in winter, roots dont grow then.  Best time to plant in my area is in the beginning of the wet season, roots grow quickly in the wet heat.  Is your back yard part shaded and the front sunny?  I had a 15 gal C fallaensis get spear infection a few years back when I had it in 2/3rds day shade.  I treated with peroxide and daconil once a week for 3 weeks and put it in direct sun 2/3rds of the day. 

Both C Fallensis and B Alfredii dont like shade and that may effect immunity from pathogens when injured.  Sometime you just plant out a lot and the weather hammers you before the palms get adapted.  A transplant is no doubt less cold hardy than an established palm.  This year winter looked like the coldest in decades for some florida growers.  I had 3 royals killed in 2010 along with some other 10a palms.  A couple year after I put in (2) royals with 3-4' trunk and they are 40-45' today and seemingly take the cold well.  Radiational cold(low wind) means temps at an elevation of 15' are warmer than near the ground at 4'.  For tolerance to radiative events, there is a window where palms will be vulnerable but after the grow and the bud rises, they tolerate the radiative fronts better.   I changed my approach after having half of my palms killed in 2010.  More cold tolerant palms can help protect the less cold tolerant ones in buffering wind and in improving the trapping of heat down in cold events.

[Golden10]

19 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

I have never planted in winter, roots dont grow then.  Best time to plant in my area is in the beginning of the wet season, roots grow quickly in the wet heat.  Is your back yard part shaded and the front sunny?  I had a 15 gal C fallaensis get spear infection a few years back when I had it in 2/3rds day shade.  I treated with peroxide and daconil once a week for 3 weeks and put it in direct sun 2/3rds of the day. 

Both C Fallensis and B Alfredii dont like shade and that may effect immunity from pathogens when injured.  Sometime you just plant out a lot and the weather hammers you before the palms get adapted.  A transplant is no doubt less cold hardy than an established palm.  This year winter looked like the coldest in decades for some florida growers.  I had 3 royals killed in 2010 along with some other 10a palms.  A couple year after I put in (2) royals with 3-4' trunk and they are 40-45' today and seemingly take the cold well.  Radiational cold(low wind) means temps at an elevation of 15' are warmer than near the ground at 4'.  For tolerance to radiative events, there is a window where palms will be vulnerable but after the grow and the bud rises, they tolerate the radiative fronts better.   I changed my approach after having half of my palms killed in 2010.  More cold tolerant palms can help protect the less cold tolerant ones in buffering wind and in improving the trapping of heat down in cold events.

Where its planted will see full sun for most of the day luckily.  Time will tell 

[Josue Diaz]

Is it just me or does the central spear look discolored? Seems an unusual dull green/grey with the black spots and white mold?

 

[FlaPalmLover]

7 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

I have never planted in winter, roots dont grow then.  Best time to plant in my area is in the beginning of the wet season, roots grow quickly in the wet heat.  Is your back yard part shaded and the front sunny?  I had a 15 gal C fallaensis get spear infection a few years back when I had it in 2/3rds day shade.  I treated with peroxide and daconil once a week for 3 weeks and put it in direct sun 2/3rds of the day. 

Both C Fallensis and B Alfredii dont like shade and that may effect immunity from pathogens when injured.  Sometime you just plant out a lot and the weather hammers you before the palms get adapted.  A transplant is no doubt less cold hardy than an established palm.  This year winter looked like the coldest in decades for some florida growers.  I had 3 royals killed in 2010 along with some other 10a palms.  A couple year after I put in (2) royals with 3-4' trunk and they are 40-45' today and seemingly take the cold well.  Radiational cold(low wind) means temps at an elevation of 15' are warmer than near the ground at 4'.  For tolerance to radiative events, there is a window where palms will be vulnerable but after the grow and the bud rises, they tolerate the radiative fronts better.   I changed my approach after having half of my palms killed in 2010.  More cold tolerant palms can help protect the less cold tolerant ones in buffering wind and in improving the trapping of heat down in cold events.

I have never planted in the winter either, but yes, my backyard has a very large tree in the center of it that provides a good deal of shade, and I think that makes it a weaker spot for palms that prefer full sun. I think the copernicia I got was harder for me to care for because it was potted and infected and the combination was not good. I'm sure it also didn't help that I didn't have a great full sun location for it. 

[FlaPalmLover]

13 hours ago, Golden10 said:

Agree with most of what you said and I have learned a lesson here, mostly on buying in winter and who I give business to. , however, from a customer service standpoint there also is a duty to take due care  when someone has invested money into something. Like not digging up a field grown 10 ft palm that just went through a cold snap, or attempting protection of some sort, could’ve been dug and placed in their large  greenhouse or something and delivered the following week if they needed to get rid of it that bad . You saw the before photo as well. IMO the damage/loss should be on the business, especially  since it was still in their ground. It’s not like I bought it before the freeze and had them plant it in my yard. It was in their yard during the freeze where opportunity to protect myself wasn’t an option, I know some nursary owners won’t agree, to them it’s  business and sales which to an extent I understand. I’m just a retail guy and not a big landscape wholesale buy for them but I’m still a paying customer. Bottom line is this palm was not in this condition when purchased, and if I ran a nursary and someone put a deposit on one of my palms I would never have expected them to take the palm in that condition, and I’ve had several nursary owners agree with me on that. I have been in talks with the bursary however their position is “it’s in shock and will recover” of course 

I am not sure what they should've done, but I don't love how they handled your purchase either. It seems like they could've at least discounted you a portion of the purchase price to account for the cold damage. 

[sonoranfans]

15 hours ago, FlaPalmLover said:

I have never planted in the winter either, but yes, my backyard has a very large tree in the center of it that provides a good deal of shade, and I think that makes it a weaker spot for palms that prefer full sun. I think the copernicia I got was harder for me to care for because it was potted and infected and the combination was not good. I'm sure it also didn't help that I didn't have a great full sun location for it. 

I also had a couple copernicia that were potted and infected, one fallaensis and one hospita had spear infections.   They were fine till I put them in a shady spot.  Dew is everywhere here for a good part of the year.  Sun burns the dew off, if its direct for several hours.  I treated them and moved all my potted copernicias into direct sunlight and they responded with good healthy growth.  I have one cuban copernicia in mostly shade, a macroglossa and it just sits there barely grew in 4-5 years.   A second same sized one I put in direct sun 8 hrs and it is 3x the size.  My experiences with the cuban copernicias( I have eight) is they hate shade plus being frequently wet with dew.  Wet soil, they are fine, wet leaves/bud is a no in shade.  Some of mine near irrigation sprinklers have mold spotted on oldest leaves.  They love rain but they also want the crown to dry out.  Once they get some size up off the ground, dew is less an issue, and they may be fine.  But overhead water, lack of sun and incessant dew in florida has led to spear pull on mine.  Overhead water is not a problem when in full sun, as the bud consistently dries out.

[Merlyn]

@Golden10 I like the idea of the hydrogen peroxide and Daconil crown treatments too.  A simple squirt from a $2 bottle of H2O2 could prevent [or cure] aa crown fungal infection.  Since the crown is only a foot off the ground, it's easy to reach.

I'd also mark the new spear horizontally with a sharpie, across it and the fronds next to it.  That way you can easily see if it is growing.  It may not move much for several moree weeks, but generally should be steadily growing.  Even if it is only 1/16th of an inch per week, some steady movement is a good sign.

[Golden10]

1 hour ago, Merlyn said:

@Golden10 I like the idea of the hydrogen peroxide and Daconil crown treatments too.  A simple squirt from a $2 bottle of H2O2 could prevent [or cure] aa crown fungal infection.  Since the crown is only a foot off the ground, it's easy to reach.

I'd also mark the new spear horizontally with a sharpie, across it and the fronds next to it.  That way you can easily see if it is growing.  It may not move much for several moree weeks, but generally should be steadily growing.  Even if it is only 1/16th of an inch per week, some steady movement is a good sign.

I sprayed a bottle of bonide copper fungicide in the crown, around the crown, and on some of the lower frond areas yesterday. I have to admit I do have concern spraying so much liquid in and around the crown wondering if it will negatively affect it at all as far as the dampness. Although I guess it gets soaked when it rains anyways, and it was around 80 in full sun today.  Today I also added some 5-1-1 fish emulsion in with my moral watering. Good idea on marking the spear, I’ve done that in the past to will do that tonight

would you still recommend after a bit putting some peroxide in there periodically? 

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, Golden10 said:

I sprayed a bottle of bonide copper fungicide in the crown, around the crown, and on some of the lower frond areas yesterday. I have to admit I do have concern spraying so much liquid in and around the crown wondering if it will negatively affect it at all as far as the dampness. Although I guess it gets soaked when it rains anyways, and it was around 80 in full sun today.  Today I also added some 5-1-1 fish emulsion in with my moral watering. Good idea on marking the spear, I’ve done that in the past to will do that tonight

would you still recommend after a bit putting some peroxide in there periodically? 

Copper is a great fungicide too.  I wouldn't worry about liquids mixed with the fungicide, but I wouldn't pour or spray water into the crown without the fungicide.  Hydrogen peroxide is a great fungicide too, and degrades to water and oxygen in the presence of fungus (thus the bubbling).  One reason people suggest H2O2 is because it bubbles up, and you can easily see if fungus is present.  I think a good squirt in there occasionally is a good safety measure.  I used about 5 x 32oz bottles of H2O2 and then ~2.5 gallons of Daconil mix on the 6th (I think) an am doing another dose next week.

[Hu Palmeras]

Install heat lamps. Use plenty to protect it from the cold. And frost protection netting. Try mounting them on four wooden posts in the ground, about an elbow's length from the palm. The heat from these lamps will be a great help. Install the lights along the entire length of the palm, from the trunk to the leaves. Spray all the leaves and part of the trunk with neem oil mixed with potassium soap. Apply a little to the bud. The low temperatures have affected your palm, making it more prone to fungal attacks and infections, which have also damaged its leaves. It was left weak after being transplanted to its new location.

[mlovecan]

On one hand it's more than a bit nasty of the nursey to do that to you.

On the other hand, regardless of it's current state, it's a beauiful tree that will definitely pull through.