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Below freezing, Mule spear pulled and ants…

ZPalms

By ZPalms
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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ZPalms Grand Master

ZPalms

Posted
Posted

My mule spear pulled yesterday and ants moved in today and I’m not sure how get them out the crown and out of this dry area and of course this wants to happen when it’s below freezing and frozen rain is coming so I’m unsure if I can do anything.

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  • ZPalms changed the title to Below freezing, Mule spear pulled and ants…
Harry’s Palms Grand Master

Harry’s Palms

Posted
Posted

In those conditions it’s hard to keep your plants safe . Even with lights and covering it will be colder than most living things can handle. Good luck . Harry

  • Like 3
Allen Grand Master

Allen

Posted
Posted

Sevin dust around the trunk

  • Upvote 1

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7B palms - (Sabal) minor (15+, 3 dwarf),  brazoria (1) , birmingham (3), louisiana (4), palmetto (2),  tamaulipensis (1), (Trachycarpus) fortunei (15+), wagnerianus (2+),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix (7),  Blue Butia odorata (1), Serenoa repens (1) Chamaerops humilis (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows 4F, -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

aztropic Grand Master

aztropic

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, ZPalms said:

My mule spear pulled yesterday and ants moved in today and I’m not sure how get them out the crown and out of this dry area and of course this wants to happen when it’s below freezing and frozen rain is coming so I’m unsure if I can do anything.

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Those miniature Christmas lights don't generate enough heat to save anything. You need to step up to the old fashioned C9 incandescent strings of 25, (available online) and provide a cover, tied at the trunk like a lollipop, to hold in some of the heat generated. Cotton/poly car covers or large frost cloths sewn together work good for larger canopies. An ounce of prevention is ALWAYS worth 10 pounds of cure. 🤷‍♂️

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

  • Like 2

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Allen Grand Master

Allen

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, aztropic said:

Those miniature Christmas lights don't generate enough heat to save anything. You need to step up to the old fashioned C9 incandescent strings of 25, (available online) and provide a cover, tied at the trunk like a lollipop, to hold in some of the heat generated. Cotton/poly car covers or large frost cloths sewn together work good for larger canopies. An ounce of prevention is ALWAYS worth 10 pounds of cure. 🤷‍♂️

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

The minis provide plenty of heat if wrapped in frost cloth.  Here is a chart of outdoor temp vs the butia temp and below a video showing the lights and wrapping.  I don't use C9 because every year about 10 people give me reports of them burning their palms or killing it if they bunch them around spear or mummy wrap too tight.  Mini's are much gentler on the palms.  I have protected 15 palms over the years with just mini's and frost cloth and a cover like a tarp or umbrella cover in temps down to -6F.  C9's are ok if they are used in a more open enclosure or not touching fronds/spear or bunched but I wrap my palms in a small diameter

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ojpwc-TSfQU

https://youtube.com/shorts/MFef56JXka4

 

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  • Like 2

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7B palms - (Sabal) minor (15+, 3 dwarf),  brazoria (1) , birmingham (3), louisiana (4), palmetto (2),  tamaulipensis (1), (Trachycarpus) fortunei (15+), wagnerianus (2+),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix (7),  Blue Butia odorata (1), Serenoa repens (1) Chamaerops humilis (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows 4F, -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

mnorell Veteran

mnorell

Posted
Posted

I doubt the ants are of any immediate concern to you. They are likely not there to eat your palm, and poisoning them won't help anything. The more important fact is that mules can't be expected to survive even an "average" winter in an 8a zone, and they are far too large to adequately protect after a few years. When I lived in Natchez, Mississippi, I lost most of mine (fairly large) to 18F or so in a long, hard freeze. The only one to survive was up against the house and barely survived a much quicker 13F jab (but required surgery/debriding/peroxide into the crown/meristem area). I'm sure that palm is now dead since I believe there have been colder jabs there in the last few years. And that's in a 9a zone (though maybe it has sunk down into 8b with some of these recent winters)... I hate to be a naysayer, but even a pure Butia can't survive the below-average winters in an 8a area in the east. A well grown grouping/grove of Sabal or Trachycarpus surrounded by root-hardy gingers, bananas, etc. can be a thing of real beauty and you won't need to distress yourself every winter. Extreme protection methods will likely get old very quickly. And that's when you finally move to Florida and kick yourself for not having done it sooner...

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

Than Grand Master

Than

Posted
Posted

If the crown is going to stay dry, then something as simple as ground cinnamon can keep ants away and also keep the area dry. Ants and fungi hate cinnamon.

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Zone 9b: if you love it, cover it.

Jeff zone 8 N.C. Experienced

Jeff zone 8 N.C.

Posted
Posted

Got to dry and treat that spear for rot immediately.  And treat for ants then wrap the plant and lights to hold heat. I started using canvas sold at Harbor Freight, (in the painting section) to wrap the plant, then wrap that in clear flexible plastic sheeting, to keep the canvas dry. They are both cheap there.  A free solution if your plant isn't too large is to locate a carpet store and see if they have discarded large cardboard tubes, that the carpet is rolled around to ship. Carpet stores usually have a open dumpster out back. If you can get the plant inside one of those tubes it will make a great insulated, water proof housing for a winter. The tubes are easily cut to length with a saw.

ZPalms Grand Master

ZPalms

Posted
  • Author
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Well I think I messed up then because I didn’t wrap them… I can still do it now but… This and my butia are under greenhouse tents but I didn’t make it any tighter closer to them…

Allen Grand Master

Allen

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

Well I think I messed up then because I didn’t wrap them… I can still do it now but… This and my butia are under greenhouse tents but I didn’t make it any tighter closer to them…

Temp sensor next time to see how much heat you need to get it to about 35F-45F

  • Like 1

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7B palms - (Sabal) minor (15+, 3 dwarf),  brazoria (1) , birmingham (3), louisiana (4), palmetto (2),  tamaulipensis (1), (Trachycarpus) fortunei (15+), wagnerianus (2+),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix (7),  Blue Butia odorata (1), Serenoa repens (1) Chamaerops humilis (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows 4F, -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

Jeff zone 8 N.C. Experienced

Jeff zone 8 N.C.

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

Well I think I messed up then because I didn’t wrap them… I can still do it now but… This and my butia are under greenhouse tents but I didn’t make it any tighter closer to them…

Good news is it can probably be saved.

  • Like 1
ZPalms Grand Master

ZPalms

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Just now, Jeff zone 8 N.C. said:

Good news is it can probably be saved.

I have some stuff coming that I can spray on them soon.

Las Palmas Norte Grand Master

Las Palmas Norte

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

... some stuff ...

What's this "stuff" and what is it expected to do?

ZPalms Grand Master

ZPalms

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Just now, Las Palmas Norte said:

What's this "stuff" and what is it expected to do?

Was recommended to get something similar to get something similar to Agri Fos so I got this.

 

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  • Like 1
  • 3 weeks later...
ZPalms Grand Master

ZPalms

Posted
  • Author
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the temperature has gone up enough to apply this stuff... I don't really know how, I saw you can do a soil drench but I don't know how much to add to water or should I do a overall spray?

ZPalms Grand Master

ZPalms

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I did something so I don't know, 2 tsp in 1/2 gl for the spray and then for the soil I did 4 tsp in 1 gallon

  • 4 weeks later...
ZPalms Grand Master

ZPalms

Posted
  • Author
Posted

It’s grown its damage out for the most part but my only question is if I can let it enjoy the rain now? Or should I continue to cover it?

Im gonna cover it for this week though since the temperature is dropping slightly. But after the fact it should be ok to start letting it be free?

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  • Like 2
ZPalms Grand Master

ZPalms

Posted
  • Author
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omg… major problem… so last night it was 31F and I didn’t know it and didn’t turn on anything or cover anything… what do I do???? Do I spray copper fungicide to prevent? I also pour copper fungicide in my trachycarpus yesterday because it spear pulled… that probably froze inside the hole 😕

mnorell Veteran

mnorell

Posted
Posted

Neither xButyagrus nor any Trachycarpus species have any tissues that are affected by a 31F temperature. Please see Broschat & Meerow's freeze-damage threshold diagram for T. fortunei in Ornamental Palm Horticulture. This was reproduced in a post by Pal Meir in this Trachycarpus thread. 

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

ZPalms Grand Master

ZPalms

Posted
  • Author
Posted
11 hours ago, mnorell said:

Neither xButyagrus nor any Trachycarpus species have any tissues that are affected by a 31F temperature. Please see Broschat & Meerow's freeze-damage threshold diagram for T. fortunei in Ornamental Palm Horticulture. This was reproduced in a post by Pal Meir in this Trachycarpus thread. 

The trachy developed damage that I didn’t see from the freezes before hand the spear pulled yesterday and then I poured copper fungicide down the hole and then it was 31F apparently this morning which I wasn’t aware of so their was cold liquid down the hole which has me more worried. I guess all I can do is wait.

 

  • Like 1
DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
Posted

@ZPalms keep us updated, mules are tough! If you lose this one, try again.

If you don't plant it a buddy!

 

  • Like 3

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

ZPalms Grand Master

ZPalms

Posted
  • Author
Posted
31 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

@ZPalms keep us updated, mules are tough! If you lose this one, try again.

If you don't plant it a buddy!

 

I think the mule will be ok, I sprayed copper fungicide as a preventative, I’m more worried about the trachy this round 😭 but will do!

  • Upvote 1
DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

I think the mule will be ok, I sprayed copper fungicide as a preventative, I’m more worried about the trachy this round 😭 but will do!

Trachies are tough too. 
 

Rooting for all of you!

  • Like 3

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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