Rookie mistake and questions

[sdpalmgabe]

So, I made several stupid mistakes that compounded and I'm trying to recover and learn:  First, I made my first Floribunda order in November, right as winter was starting (I'm in San Diego, but about 10mi inland and it gets chilly at night) rather than in Spring when palms are happier.   Timing was particularly bad because the plants arrived a few days before I was set to leave for a week-long vacation.  When they arrived, I couldn't decide what to do with these delicate seedlings since they were arriving from Hawaii where it's hot and humid, and I didn't want them to be shocked by either (1) going straight outside where it's in the 40s at night or (2) staying inside where there's no sunlight and the humidity is low.  So... I purchased a rush-delivery of a cold-frame mini-greenhouse thinking the increased warmth and humidity would be the best way to care for them.  I assembled the cold-frame the day before I left on my trip, packed it with my seedlings (mostly 1gal and 4" dypsis and new cal palms), watered them, and hoped for the best.  I placed the cold-frame in direct south-facing sun since I figured this would capture and hold the most warmth, and left for the week.  

Can you guess what happened?

Yeah, most of them fried.  I was keeping an eye on the temperature in the cold-frame (with a temp monitor on the bottom shelf) and it was getting up into the mid-90s every day.  I now suspect the upper shelves were even hotter since the palms on the top shelf did worse than the ones on the bottom.   Anyway, about half of them are mostly dead and crispy and around half of them look OKish.  The media was pretty dry when I got home.

My questions are:

• do you think they would've fared better if they'd been watered a few times? I.e. if they're in a cold-frame like this that gets hot in the sun, will they do OK as long as they stay moist?  Going forward should I keep seedlings in a cold-frame in winter but just make-sure to water every day?
• Similarly, is direct south-facing sun too much for a cold-frame?  Would it be better in partial sun or half-day sun?  I have east- and west-facing spots that would get either morning- or afternoon-sun, respectively
• I noticed the minimum temperature at night basically matched the outdoor temperature.  Does the protection from wind help keep them happy even though it gets just as cold? 

Generally wondering what the best way to care for seedlings arriving from HI is if you order in winter.  I think it definitely would be better to order in spring and keep them outdoors in the open or maybe with some shade-cloth, but if you do get sensitive seedlings in winter what's the best way to care for them if you don't have a big greenhouse?

Thanks

 

 

[JohnAndSancho]

I've never ordered from them or built a cold frame, but I also learned the hard way not to order plants in winter. I broke my cardinal rule last year and an unexpected polar vortex swept down and shut down everything. My plants sat in a FedEx trailer in Memphis for 5 days. At least those were from Lowe's so I could return them. I broke my rule again last week but these were dragon fruit cuttings and thanks to the wonderful tracking of USPS, I had no idea where they were. Tracking showed them bouncing between San Bernardino and MoVal over and over and then they showed up at my house. 

 

Anyway I can't speak on anything else, just wanted to tell you you're not the only one. 

[Kim]

If you list the palm names, that would help. Some look to be survivable, maybe, possibly...? Right, they don't look pretty right now, but you may be able to coax them to produce new fronds if they can be managed properly. Not knowing what you have, I can't offer advice.

[sdpalmgabe]

• Chrysalidocarpus mijoroanus - crispy
• Chrysalidocarpus prestonianus hybrid - crispy
• Veillonia alba - crispy
• Cyphophoenix nucele - crispy

---

• Chrysalidocarpus decipiens Hybrid f2 - OK
• Chrysalidocarpus lafazamanga - OK
• Licuala elegans - OK
• Polyandrococos caudescens - OK
• Kentiopsis pyriformis - OK

 

Thanks

  

[Johnny Palmseed]

For the current palms, I have no advice. They will need TLC now.

As for the future, it sounds like you might already know the answer. Don’t order in the fall, don’t leave for a week, etc… However, if you have to over winter small palms regardless of when you bought them, you can use the greenhouse but do not put it in all day sun. Your problem is not day time temperatures, it’s night temps. Get a heat mat that will fit in the bottom and use a timer or thermostat to keep it warm at night. The greenhouse would be ok with some morning or evening sun but it would be best if it were filtered light. Also, if you have to leave for more than a day or 2, you can put saucers with water under them to prevent drying out.

[TomJ]

Also if you leave the palms in the FB lava rock or put into another fast draining medium they will need water.  Most of those palms are fine outside until maybe January or February.

[happypalms]

I bring in a lot of palms from warmer areas with basically no winter. 
When it gets cold some of the tropical grown foliage burns. And dime are killed outright stone dead. Some recover some dont, the most I offer them is a hothouse and that’s it if they survive they survive, it’s called zone pushing you just don’t know until you try. 
Plant selection or varietie will determine a lot of the outcome. 
Your cold frame will offer some protection in the form of of keeping out cold draughty air, in winter the cold air sinks to the bottom or in a downhill motion. 
You have just become a zone pusher in what you are doing no harm in trying and it’s not a rookie mistake, I have found some amazing new palms that will take the cold weather unthinkable of trying but I did and successfully managed to get them to grow. 
And I have killed many a palm trying as well. Dont give up expect some loses and some winners. 

Palms are one the most fussy winter plants around! 

[Kim]

Of the first group, the prestonianus hybrid should survive. Chrysalidocarpus can be amazingly tough palms, so don't give up easily.  I did lose a C. mijoroanus in Hawaii; it was really tiny and when we had a dry spell, that was the end of it.

In the second group, I'm amazed the Kentiopsis pyriformis is hanging in, but then, I've never grown it in California.  Now they are lumped into Chambeyronia -- I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Keep a close eye on these babies -- don't let them dry out, don't overwater them either; keep them protected from too much cold, and don't cook them. Don't fertilize now. Yes, stating the obvious. Please report back if you get some new fronds come spring! Best of luck!

 

[mnorell]

All the palms you list, as with most New Caledonian and Madagascan palms, and also for Polyandrococos and L. peltata v. sumawongii (sold as 'L. elegans') are pretty cool-tolerant and chill-tolerant and most will survive down to about freezing. Probably the best thing you could do in the future...set them under a tree with a little bit of morning sun (as far as I know, Jeff grows all of these under shade-cloth, so best to avoid full direct sun at first). If going out of town, it would of course help to put them in the throw of a programmed sprinkler. Otherwise seal them completely in large ziploc baggies and keep in complete shade until you return. They won't need any water in those temporary greenhouses. As far as the damaged ones you now have...as others have said...baby them in the shade, and time will tell.

With this list of palms, I'd say you can order any time of year in San Diego unless you live in a canyon where cold air collects. I have an order coming this week from Jeff and I'm out in Palm Springs where despite a zone 10a designation, winter nights are generally a few degrees colder than the warmer coastal areas of S.D., and so I purposely kept 90% of the plants in the "zone 9b" category, just in case. I included just a few others for winter torture-testing to see if 30s and 40s will destroy them or not. Those I wanted right away, to check their fortitude after coming in from the Big Island climate.

Regarding the idea of putting your cold-frame in full sun...did you ever see what happened to Alec Guinness in The Bridge on the River Kwai? 

[peachy]

If I am zone pushing I only buy in summer or if it is irresistible and from a local grower I risk it.  !4 years ago, I had a holiday (3 days) the first and last since 1997 as I can't go away and leave baby plants,  little dogs, neurotic cats and eternally fecund parrots.  For a group of people who really love palms we seem to murder far more of them than the average person ever dreams of.

Peachy