Longevity of palms

[sonoranfans]

Disclaimer: Google AI can make mistakes like all AI, but offers a fast way to estimate the reported longevity of palms.  I started to become curious about the longevity of a number particular palm species, though most all of mine will likely outlive me.  So far I have seen Borassus Aethiopum (100-150 yrs), Bismarckia(50-150 years), Roystonea Regia (100-150 years),  Butia yatay typically (80-100 years and up to 200 years),  sabal palmetto up to 200 years, syagrus romanzoffiana 50-70 years typical but some over 100 years.  Tahina Spectabilis 50 years before dying in flower.  Pseudophoenix Sargentii 80-150 years. 

One Google AI quote had me wondering abouyt how the care of palms can impact longevity.   Bismarckia Nobillis quote was 50-150 depending on conditions.

"The Bismarckia nobilis, or Bismarck Palm, has a lifespan of approximately 50 to 150 years with proper care.  Longevity depends on factors like soil quality, climate, and sufficient water, especially during its establishment period.  Proper fertilization and protection from extreme cold or strong winds also help it reach its full potential. "

In italics is the interesting part, that lifespan is substantially impacted by growing conditions during the "establishment period".  My next question is what is that "establishment period" and is this true of all palms to some extent?  This concept naturally leads to the question of whether lifespan of some species of large palms that have to re establish roots will be shorter due to the energy required.  I have noted that the private yard bismarckia generally look healthier with larger crowns than those that are planted pre pandemic as adults along the I75. 

Anyone have any comments or experiences on the longevity of various palm species out there.  Some species were too rate to have much in records from years ago  For examnple Copernicia fallaensis has very little in recorded longevity.  The oldest ones at Fairchild are 36-38 years old.

[Solino]

I'm no expert by any means, but according to this thread

the Copernicia fallaensis in the picture should be about 100 years old.  Considering that it's not even close to being the largest I have seen picture of, I'd guess they must live well over 100 years.

Hyphaene I think are quite long lived too, probably at least as long. I remember seeing a video on YouTube a few years ago of a huge specimen in either India or Sri Lanka, and it had at least 64 heads if not more. I can't imagine it being much less than 100 years old. Unfortunately I can't find it, not sure if because it's not there or because YouTube's search has become so terrible (which it has) it can't find it anymore.

[Solino]

Ah, according to multiple sources, it seems Jubaea chilensis is the longest lived palm of all. Again, this is just 3rd party information as I definitely have no first hand or second hand way to verify this.

[Zeeth]

There are Saw palmetto clonal groups that are estimated at being about 10,000 years old on the Lake Wales Ridge:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312039802_A_Tale_of_Two_Palmettos_The_Foundation_of_Ecosystems

[Mazat]

14 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Disclaimer: Google AI can make mistakes like all AI, but offers a fast way to estimate the reported longevity of palms.  I started to become curious about the longevity of a number particular palm species, though most all of mine will likely outlive me.  So far I have seen Borassus Aethiopum (100-150 yrs), Bismarckia(50-150 years), Roystonea Regia (100-150 years),  Butia yatay typically (80-100 years and up to 200 years),  sabal palmetto up to 200 years, syagrus romanzoffiana 50-70 years typical but some over 100 years.  Tahina Spectabilis 50 years before dying in flower.  Pseudophoenix Sargentii 80-150 years. 

One Google AI quote had me wondering abouyt how the care of palms can impact longevity.   Bismarckia Nobillis quote was 50-150 depending on conditions.

"The Bismarckia nobilis, or Bismarck Palm, has a lifespan of approximately 50 to 150 years with proper care.  Longevity depends on factors like soil quality, climate, and sufficient water, especially during its establishment period.  Proper fertilization and protection from extreme cold or strong winds also help it reach its full potential. "

In italics is the interesting part, that lifespan is substantially impacted by growing conditions during the "establishment period".  My next question is what is that "establishment period" and is this true of all palms to some extent?  This concept naturally leads to the question of whether lifespan of some species of large palms that have to re establish roots will be shorter due to the energy required.  I have noted that the private yard bismarckia generally look healthier with larger crowns than those that are planted pre pandemic as adults along the I75. 

Anyone have any comments or experiences on the longevity of various palm species out there.  Some species were too rate to have much in records from years ago  For examnple Copernicia fallaensis has very little in recorded longevity.  The oldest ones at Fairchild are 36-38 years old.

Very interesting 👍🌴

[Mazat]

1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

There are Saw palmetto clonal groups that are estimated at being about 10,000 years old on the Lake Wales Ridge:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312039802_A_Tale_of_Two_Palmettos_The_Foundation_of_Ecosystems

Wow👍, amazing 

[happypalms]

Some chameadorea species have short life spans, and others live for quite a long time. So far they have lived for 26 years in my garden. Only the genoformis seems to be short lived for me, noticed that a few have died over the last couple of years, perhaps growers mistake, but an observation I thought as to why they died, and age was the only thing I can think off perhaps, I may be wrong.

[sonoranfans]

15 hours ago, Solino said:

I'm no expert by any means, but according to this thread

the Copernicia fallaensis in the picture should be about 100 years old.  Considering that it's not even close to being the largest I have seen picture of, I'd guess they must live well over 100 years.

Hyphaene I think are quite long lived too, probably at least as long. I remember seeing a video on YouTube a few years ago of a huge specimen in either India or Sri Lanka, and it had at least 64 heads if not more. I can't imagine it being much less than 100 years old. Unfortunately I can't find it, not sure if because it's not there or because YouTube's search has become so terrible (which it has) it can't find it anymore.

Wow what a great pic of that Fallaensis!  My comments were related to known not estimated but surely that Fallaensis has seen some history.  I recall that Jubaeas have been recorded from the 1800's and are still alive, and amture ones from that time are still around.

5 hours ago, Zeeth said:

There are Saw palmetto clonal groups that are estimated at being about 10,000 years old on the Lake Wales Ridge:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312039802_A_Tale_of_Two_Palmettos_The_Foundation_of_Ecosystems

Very interesting, reminds me of aspen trees

"Individual aspen stems typically live for 100 to 150 years, though they can sometimes survive for over 200 years, especially in drier, western climates. The lifespan varies significantly depending on factors like climate, with trees in more humid areas living shorter lives (60-75 years) than those in drier regions. The underlying root systems of aspen groves can be much older, with the Pando clone in Utah estimated to be thousands of years old, even up to 80,000 years."

[sonoranfans]

Within groups of deciduous and evergreen trees he slower growing trees seem to grow more dense ring patterns and trunks and they live longer.  Palm trees are not trees so perhaps there is no analagous situation but Jubaeas are very slow and perhaps the longest living nonclonal palm tree.   I have planted scores of trees before I started growing palms 27 years ago.  Having moved 5 times I often wonder how many of those trees would be around in 50-100 years.  Will my archies still be chugging along in 80 years?  A. Alexandre  has a reported lifespan of up to 100-150 years.

carpentaria are very fast and seem to burn out sooner than archies.

"The Carpentaria acuminata, or Carpentaria palm, has a lifespan of approximately 25 to 100 years, depending on conditions. In ideal conditions, it can live for 80-100 years, while its lifespan is sometimes cited as shorter, ranging from 25-50 years in general horticultural contexts. Its growth is relatively slow when young, but accelerates to about 30−60  cm per year once established, and it reaches sexual maturity around 7-10 years of age. "

[Solino]

10 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

Wow what a great pic of that Fallaensis!  My comments were related to known not estimated but surely that Fallaensis has seen some history.  I recall that Jubaeas have been recorded from the 1800's and are still alive, and amture ones from that time are still around.

Yeah sorry, like I said I am no expert so I can't give a confirmed and precise account on longevity. That said, I'd be VERY surprised to know that a  healthy fallaensis or a healthy Hyphaene can't outlive just about every human, and the same goes for many large palms (even if not all).

However, surely people with more scientific and direct knowledge can give you a much more accurate estimate.

[sonoranfans]

35 minutes ago, Solino said:

Yeah sorry, like I said I am no expert so I can't give a confirmed and precise account on longevity. That said, I'd be VERY surprised to know that a  healthy fallaensis or a healthy Hyphaene can't outlive just about every human, and the same goes for many large palms (even if not all).

However, surely people with more scientific and direct knowledge can give you a much more accurate estimate.

Not sure what has actually been recorded, but point taken there are CIDP's, Fallaensis etc that have obviously been around longer than recorded longevity.