Is my queen palm dying or adjusting to its new environment

[dimitriskedikogloy]

This was my queen palm when I got it in September and now it’s November this is how it was when I first bought it vs now . I really haven’t changed anything on the plant it’s in the same pot it’s just a slightly different environment the new leaves look healthy and the spear is green but the two older fronds look like they will die very soon and I don’t know how to act in this situation 

[Bill H2DB]

 That palm needs to be put in a much larger pot , or in the ground asap  .

Queens are large .  Leave the old fronds on until they turn brown ,  nutrients are being withdrawn from them  at this point .

[dimitriskedikogloy]

23 minutes ago, Bill H2DB said:

 That palm needs to be put in a much larger pot , or in the ground asap  .

Queens are large .  Leave the old fronds on until they turn brown ,  nutrients are being withdrawn from them  at this point .

 should i repot even though its almost winter? i think it will put even more stress. Anyways the palm isnt dying though , right? Its just adjusting to its new location and transfering nutrients to the new frond and the spear

[Than]

We need more info. Sun exposure before and after? How often do you water? Has it been fertilized at all? My Syagrus also looked like this in spring, a bit better now.. I have the impression this species only looks nice after a certain age. 

At any case, if the new leaves are good, then it's not dying.

[dimitriskedikogloy]

3 minutes ago, Than said:

We need more info. Sun exposure before and after? How often do you water? Has it been fertilized at all? My Syagrus also looked like this in spring, a bit better now.. I have the impression this species only looks nice after a certain age. 

At any case, if the new leaves are good, then it's not dying.

I think it’s getting less sun exposure now I water it when the top soil looks dry and obviously when it rains it was outdoors in the nursery too and no hasn’t been fertilised 

[Bill H2DB]

   Repot it asap .   The rootball will probably come out of the current pot mostly intact . Just place it into the new much bigger 

pot .  The less disturbance , the better .  The plant will simply have more volume , in which to grow more roots . 

Also , a bigger volume of soil mass will cool off more slowly than a smaller amount would, and hold moisture better as well . .

 

[dimitriskedikogloy]

18 minutes ago, Bill H2DB said:

   Repot it asap .   The rootball will probably come out of the current pot mostly intact . Just place it into the new much bigger 

pot .  The less disturbance , the better .  The plant will simply have more volume , in which to grow more roots . 

Also , a bigger volume of soil mass will cool off more slowly than a smaller amount would, and hold moisture better as well . .

 

but since its already stressed wont it worsen if repotin in cold temps i think its risky

[Bill H2DB]

28 minutes ago, Bill H2DB said:

Also , a bigger volume of soil mass will cool off more slowly than a smaller amount would, and hold moisture better as well . .

 

    Re read the above......

[dimitriskedikogloy]

1 hour ago, Bill H2DB said:

    Re read the above......

alright thanks for the advice. Bought a pot and im going to repot tomorrow

[Than]

1 hour ago, dimitriskedikogloy said:

alright thanks for the advice. Bought a pot and im going to repot tomorrow

If you add pot soil, ask for soil specially for acid-loving plants 

[dimitriskedikogloy]

54 minutes ago, Than said:

If you add pot soil, ask for soil specially for acid-loving plants 

Alright I have a found a soil mixed with pebbles and cocos fibers I will ask if it’s for acid loving plants thanks 

[dimitriskedikogloy]

Update! Repotted it used the pebbles I used for mulch on the bottom layer too the soil is on the acidic side and I broke almost no roots I really hope it will not get shocked temperatures also won’t drop below 10c this week. Also I hope the drainage holes I opened are going to be enough 

[SeanK]

My guess is that it got more daily sun since you bought it. Hopefully it wasn't over fertilized. Just keep watering it and check that it drains well.

[Harry’s Palms]

I hate to tell you this but still way too small for that Queen . Both your new Archontophoenix and that Queen need lots of room to get a substantial rootball to support the growth . Without that room they will continue to shed fronds . Harry

[dimitriskedikogloy]

Just now, Harry’s Palms said:

I hate to tell you this but still way too small for that Queen . Both your new Archontophoenix and that Queen need lots of room to get a substantial rootball to support the growth . Without that room they will continue to shed fronds . Harry

Might be the photo angle it’s almost 2 times the size of the old one I will let it in this pot for the winter and if it looks to need an even bigger pot I will transplant it again here is the size difference 

[dimitriskedikogloy]

15 minutes ago, SeanK said:

My guess is that it got more daily sun since you bought it. Hopefully it wasn't over fertilized. Just keep watering it and check that it drains well.

no i think due to the hedge it got less sun which is weird the sun was always only getting down to the leaves for a few hours at noon from 11am to 3pm and the trunk was rarely getting any direct light

[Harry’s Palms]

6 minutes ago, dimitriskedikogloy said:

Might be the photo angle it’s almost 2 times the size of the old one I will let it in this pot for the winter and if it looks to need an even bigger pot I will transplant it again here is the size difference 

Good idea , just water it frequently . A good improvement , it’s just that both these palms get pretty massive root systems and need frequent repotting and watering. That’s why most people plant them in the ground . It should show some improvement by Spring unless you get an unusually cold winter. That Queen is healthy and ready to take off! In the ground it would have a trunk within a year or so . Harry

[dimitriskedikogloy]

8 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Good idea , just water it frequently . A good improvement , it’s just that both these palms get pretty massive root systems and need frequent repotting and watering. That’s why most people plant them in the ground . It should show some improvement by Spring unless you get an unusually cold winter. That Queen is healthy and ready to take off! In the ground it would have a trunk within a year or so . Harry

thanks harry do you think it would be better off in the ground since the lowest in the last 20 years was -6c for some hours? Some frost cloth would do the trick i'd say.

[Harry’s Palms]

I would wait until Spring for that , just in case . I do believe it would be fine in your climate . I have seen them grown in the inland parts of California where they see brief periods of cold . The Archontophoenix you have is about the most hardy of the King palms . The only thing with Queen palms is the mess when they flower , but you have quite a while before you have to worry about that . I don’t mind it because of the amount of shade they provide AND overhead protection so you can grow other , understory palms . 
 Take advantage of your work for now and let it fill in that pot , it will happen fast , even in cooler months . Queens are beasts!! Harry

[aztropic]

Keep it in that pot till spring. An idea now is to dig a hole where you eventually want to plant it in the ground. 'Plant' the pot in that spot with the palm in it. If it is predicted to get excessively cold, you can lift the plant for a few days to bring it inside for protection, then 'plant' it back out in its spot till spring, when you will permanently plant it in the ground to establish itself during the following growing season.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[Harry’s Palms]

I am not familiar with Celsius scale . I just looked it up . That is right on the line ( -6 c ) for these palms . Definitely wait for spring and plant in the highest elevation of your yard where they can get the first morning sun . They can take brief cold but may suffer damage . Harry

[Than]

If minus 6 was an exception then you can try. But if you get minus 5 or 6 every winter, it won't probably make it. I would worry about anything below minus 2 at this age. Keep it in the pot during this winter for sure and bring indoors if it gets very cold. Put it somewhere where it gets plenty of sun, especially in the morning.

Btw I don't think pebbles at the bottom is a good idea. Water pools around them > root rot. During winter you shouldn't water often anyway. Don't fertilize it before April. 

Very important: test your water. If it is alkaline, add some citric acid every time you fertilize (easily found in Greek supermarkets under the name "ξινό"). It's easy to test the water's pH using a kit for aquariums. Get one from a pet shop, they are cheap. 

Finally when you repot or move the palm, try to make sure the same side sees the sun like before. Or else plants get "confused" and that intensifies the shock. 

For advice I recommend this page. The author is Italian, he knows our climate and tends not to be overly optimistic like many other sources. 

[Phoenikakias]

16 hours ago, dimitriskedikogloy said:

thanks harry do you think it would be better off in the ground since the lowest in the last 20 years was -6c for some hours? Some frost cloth would do the trick i'd say.

Apply please the canary test, miners used to apply in the past. Do you see any other established specimen of the kind growing around in your hood? Perhaps you should have bought from abroad a plant with provenance being the coldest in its habitat. Parana ecotype comes in to my mind.

[dimitriskedikogloy]

55 minutes ago, Than said:

If minus 6 was an exception then you can try. But if you get minus 5 or 6 every winter, it won't probably make it. I would worry about anything below minus 2 at this age. Keep it in the pot during this winter for sure and bring indoors if it gets very cold. Put it somewhere where it gets plenty of sun, especially in the morning.

Btw I don't think pebbles at the bottom is a good idea. Water pools around them > root rot. During winter you shouldn't water often anyway. Don't fertilize it before April. 

Very important: test your water. If it is alkaline, add some citric acid every time you fertilize (easily found in Greek supermarkets under the name "ξινό"). It's easy to test the water's pH using a kit for aquariums. Get one from a pet shop, they are cheap. 

Finally when you repot or move the palm, try to make sure the same side sees the sun like before. Or else plants get "confused" and that intensifies the shock. 

For advice I recommend this page. The author is Italian, he knows our climate and tends not to be overly optimistic like many other sources. 

-6 was the extreme low the lowest over the past 3 years was -3 also this is the υπόστρωμα I used when I said pebbles it was recommended to me for drainage does it really pool? 

[Phoenikakias]

16 hours ago, dimitriskedikogloy said:

Update! Repotted it used the pebbles I used for mulch on the bottom layer too the soil is on the acidic side and I broke almost no roots I really hope it will not get shocked temperatures also won’t drop below 10c this week. Also I hope the drainage holes I opened are going to be enough 

If those pebbles are calcareous (most probably), it ain't good at all! Lime combined with organics means rapidly decomposed substrate turning to smelly, suffocating mud.

52 minutes ago, Than said:

If minus 6 was an exception then you can try. But if you get minus 5 or 6 every winter, it won't probably make it. I would worry about anything below minus 2 at this age. Keep it in the pot during this winter for sure and bring indoors if it gets very cold. Put it somewhere where it gets plenty of sun, especially in the morning.

Btw I don't think pebbles at the bottom is a good idea. Water pools around them > root rot. During winter you shouldn't water often anyway. Don't fertilize it before April. 

Very important: test your water. If it is alkaline, add some citric acid every time you fertilize (easily found in Greek supermarkets under the name "ξινό"). It's easy to test the water's pH using a kit for aquariums. Get one from a pet shop, they are cheap. 

Finally when you repot or move the palm, try to make sure the same side sees the sun like before. Or else plants get "confused" and that intensifies the shock. 

For advice I recommend this page. The author is Italian, he knows our climate and tends not to be overly optimistic like many other sources. 

I would add, that in areas with low precipitation it hates also chemical fertilizers (salt accumulation), and a clay soil combined makes matters much more challenging. 

[Phoenikakias]

1 minute ago, dimitriskedikogloy said:

-6 was the extreme low the lowest over the past 3 years was -3 also this is the υπόστρωμα I used when I said pebbles it was recommended to me for drainage does it really pool? 

Interesting, what are they made of?

[dimitriskedikogloy]

2 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Interesting, what are they made of?

They are made of some sort of volcanic rock called pumice 

[Phoenikakias]

1 minute ago, dimitriskedikogloy said:

They are made of some sort of volcanic rock called pumice 

Dude this is elafropetra, you could find this stuff even in places selling construction materials'

[dimitriskedikogloy]

14 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Apply please the canary test, miners used to apply in the past. Do you see any other established specimen of the kind growing around in your hood? Perhaps you should have bought from abroad a plant with provenance being the coldest in its habitat. Parana ecotype comes in to my mind.

Yes I’ve seen three potted queens in a house close to mine and the guy has had them for about 3 years and they seem healthy but other than that not really any established queens here only canarys and Washingtonias (hybrids)

[dimitriskedikogloy]

1 minute ago, Phoenikakias said:

Dude this is elafropetra, you could find this stuff even in places selling construction materials'

It says it drains very well I’ve tested it and I saw very good drainage so I don’t think it would cause rot 

[Phoenikakias]

Yes, if it is pumice there is no such risk. However with time and regular watering from above with the hose pumice will float. Also in case of pumice avoid a.m.a.p. salt accumulation, because salts are difficult to be rinsed off this material.

[dimitriskedikogloy]

Just now, Phoenikakias said:

Yes, if it is pumice there is no such risk. However with time and regular watering from above with the hose pumice will float.

Hmm true so what do you suggest 

[Than]

38 minutes ago, dimitriskedikogloy said:

Hmm true so what do you suggest 

Any kind of small pebbles would do. A good option is a material called Seramis albeit a bit expensive. Pine bark is also good and it is acidic, which Syagrus needs.

Personally, I have learned to mix pebbles with the soil uniformly throughout the pot. No matter what kind of pebbles, what kind of soil or what kind of plant. It's safer this way.