Small pinnetje palms subtiele in central portugal

[Gitano Iwan]

Hi everyone, 

I live in Central Portugal and own a swinningpool (ofcause hahaha) the summers here are dry and hot, the winters mild (12 a 14°C) and frost is rare (but it can happen for a our of two in the morning) and very wet!

Now I want to place a few palms near my pool I dont want it to big like a Phoenix Canariensis but more slim in the trunk.

Has anyone have ideas what to plant?

[Hu Palmeras]

Very cool my Friend🌴🌴🌴

[RichardHemsley]

Hi ,

How much shade does the area have? Your climate sounds similar to mine in Mallorca,  and one of the issues I find is that a lot of palms can suffer from sun burn in the height of summer 

[awkonradi]

Welcome to PalmTalk!  Below are suggestions for pinnate palms that are smaller than Phoenix canariensis, and which are readily available and grow well (if watered) in California, in climates similar to Pedrógão Grande Portugal.  I imagine these palms may be readily avaiable in your area.

Phoenix roebelenii

Syagrus romanzoffiana

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana

Butia capitata / odorata

I think your climate is in USDA zone 10a, or in a warm 9b.  So, I think many other species of palms, which could be sourced with more effort, would grow well in your area.

[Harry’s Palms]

It sounds like you could grow Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana there if you can find large , sun grown specimens . If not you can make a sun shade for them for the first year or so . They do drop a lot of seeds after about 20 years old , but not near as bad as Syagrus Romanzoffiana. Because of the crown shaft , the inflorescence can be easily removed. The trunks are slender and the fronds are very tropical looking . Summer burn may occur but frequent watering would reduce that condition significantly. I cannot stress enough how much water it takes to keep them looking good in warm , dry summers . Worth every drop though , they would make that space lovely. Harry

These are planted far apart but not necessary . If you plant them closer they will form a bit of a canopy for a few small Dypsis or hardy Chamaedorea Radicalis . In a few years the space will be transformed into a tropical oasis! Harry

[Gitano Iwan]

First of all, thank you!

And second yes we here in 10a/10b, I was thinking about Roebelenii in my eyes the best option I think also

 

[awkonradi]

If your climate is more like southern California, then I think the following might grow well for you.

Roystonea regia

Ravenea rivularis

[awkonradi]

4 minutes ago, Gitano Iwan said:

First of all, thank you!

And second yes we here in 10a/10b, I was thinking about Roebelenii in my eyes the best option I think also

I think Phoenix roebelenii near the pool, and perhaps some larger palms at greater distance, would look great.  Depends on how many palms you want to plant, and how much work you want to do.

[awkonradi]

Would you like to post more pictures of your property?  If you do, then I think you might get responses from more PalmTalkers that are much more experienced horticulturalists than me.

[Gitano Iwan]

11 minutes ago, awkonradi said:

Welcome to PalmTalk!  Below are suggestions for pinnate palms that are smaller than Phoenix canariensis, and which are readily available and grow well (if watered) in California, in climates similar to Pedrógão Grande Portugal.  I imagine these palms may be readily avaiable in your area.

Phoenix roebelenii

Syagrus romanzoffiana

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana

Butia capitata / odorata

I think your climate is in USDA zone 10a, or in a warm 9b.  So, I think many other species of palms, which could be sourced with more effort, would grow well in your area.

 

2 minutes ago, awkonradi said:

If your climate is more like southern California, then I think the following might grow well for you.

Roystonea regia

Ravenea rivularis

I dont know if it is some the same, we sometimes got cold nights and experience sometimes one or two degrees of frost in the morning for an our or two, but it is rare maybe 4 or 5 days in a winter. I think the weather in southern California will be slightly warmer 

[Gitano Iwan]

5 minutes ago, awkonradi said:

Would you like to post more pictures of your property?  If you do, then I think you might get responses from more PalmTalkers that are much more experienced horticulturalists than me.

Still in building process hahaha, amd at the wall on the right I want to plant some Banana's, Canna and Strelizia.

[Gitano Iwan]

16 minutes ago, awkonradi said:

If your climate is more like southern California, then I think the following might grow well for you.

Roystonea regia

Ravenea rivularis

Isn't the Roystonea a Royal palm?

[Harry’s Palms]

Be aware of Phoenix palms , they are armed with thorns . With your climate , you can grow even more exotic varieties of palms . Different heights of plants would make a filled in look with visual diversity . I love Pygmy palms but I always end up getting poked when I trim them. Harry

Chambeyronia Macrocarpa , would enjoy a bit of overhead protection

Chrysalidiocarpus Decarii full sun , good drawing soil. To the left is a Roystonia Oleracae , a much smaller trunk than Regia

Butia Oderata ( silver palm with pinnate fronds) full sun , very cool tolerant but take space once matureThis Dioon cycad is thorny like Phoenix palms but adds diversity . Planted amongst several Pygmy palms and the Chambeyronia , Roystonia

In the middle , with inflorescence, is Archontophoenix Alexandrea, larger trunk than Cunninghamiana , not as cool tolerant but would be good for 10a

[awkonradi]

1 minute ago, Gitano Iwan said:

Isn't the Roystonea a Royal palm?

Yes

[Phoenikakias]

16 minutes ago, Gitano Iwan said:

 

I dont know if it is some the same, we sometimes got cold nights and experience sometimes one or two degrees of frost in the morning for an our or two, but it is rare maybe 4 or 5 days in a winter. I think the weather in southern California will be slightly warmer 

Lol you can grow far more tropical palms than Phoenix roebelenii. Yes imo all kinds of Archontophoenix and Kentia. In Lisboa I  could see excellent Kentia specimens publicly planted. I would consider also Kentiopsis oliviformis and the cool tolerant Dypsis like baronii, onilahensis, decaryi, leptochilos and ambositrae. Perhaps even more tender Dypsis spp like lanceolata and madagascariensis can grow if you have a good microclimate. Another forum member @RafaelAvezedo has many healthy tropical palms growing outdoors in Ovar.

[Harry’s Palms]

3 minutes ago, Gitano Iwan said:

Isn't the Roystonea a Royal palm?

Yes , if you don’t want quite as much volume , you could try Roystonia Oleracae . Harry

[Gitano Iwan]

Just now, awkonradi said:

Yes

Those are planted here a lot in Central Portugal. 

[Phoenikakias]

I live in a very dry, colder in winter and hotter in summer region, yet I have managed to create a more tropical looking corner (scorched leaves on cunninghamiana had been caused by temps in the 40's C). Your climate is way more close to oceanic pattern.

[Gitano Iwan]

7 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Lol you can grow far more tropical palms than Phoenix roebelenii. Yes imo all kinds of Archontophoenix and Kentia. In Lisboa I  could see excellent Kentia specimens publicly planted. I would consider also Kentiopsis oliviformis and the cool tolerant Dypsis like baronii, onilahensis, decaryi, leptochilos and ambositrae. Perhaps even more tender Dypsis spp like lanceolata and madagascariensis can grow if you have a good microclimate. Another forum member @RafaelAvendor has many healthy tropical palms growing outdoors in Ovar.

Ovar is slightly warmer in winter and not as hot in summer I think that is better for the plants.

[awkonradi]

3 minutes ago, Gitano Iwan said:

Those are planted here a lot in Central Portugal. 

If you can grow royals, then PalmTalkers can suggest a hundred species!

[Harry’s Palms]

Dypsis Lanceolata , juvenile , may form clumps but super attractive palm. Harry

[Hu Palmeras]

Gypsy friend, you should put Bismarckia nobilis; it will give it an elegant and luxurious look. Put Archontophienix, Chambeyronia, and feathery coconut (Siagrus), but believe me.

[Gitano Iwan]

47 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

I live in a very dry, colder in winter and hotter in summer region, yet I have managed to create a more tropical looking corner (scorched leaves on cunninghamiana had been caused by temps in the 40's C). Your climate is way more close to oceanic pattern.

We have a lot of days in summer over 35°C and even over 40°C and in summer dry in winter very wet like 1500 mm rain in winter.

[Gitano Iwan]

25 minutes ago, Hu Palmeras said:

Gypsy friend, you should put Bismarckia nobilis; it will give it an elegant and luxurious look. Put Archontophienix, Chambeyronia, and feathery coconut (Siagrus), but believe me.

I know I like Bismarckia Nobilis it is one of the most beautiful palm but is is to big unfortunately. 

[Hu Palmeras]

There are some that have a thinner trunk. Don't miss the opportunity to have one. Here in Chile, I'm germinating a good batch of Bismarckia.

[Phoenikakias]

7 minutes ago, Gitano Iwan said:

We have a lot of days in summer over 35°C and even over 40°C and in summer dry in winter very wet like 1500 mm rain in winter.

Look, it is not alone the high temp crucial but also the air humidity and the cooling effect during following evening.

[Gitano Iwan]

42 minutes ago, Hu Palmeras said:

Gypsy friend, you should put Bismarckia nobilis; it will give it an elegant and luxurious look. Put Archontophienix, Chambeyronia, and feathery coconut (Siagrus), but believe me.

 

5 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Look, it is not alone the high temp crucial but also the air humidity and the cooling effect during following evening.

Yes I know here it is 27°C in the day and 16°C in the night and the humidity rise during the night.

[Gitano Iwan]

34 minutes ago, Hu Palmeras said:

There are some that have a thinner trunk. Don't miss the opportunity to have one. Here in Chile, I'm germinating a good batch of Bismarckia.

I will take a look, if we can get some here, I think it's difficult never saw one here in Portugal 

[Hu Palmeras]

Please listen to me. Your family will enjoy a luxurious Bismarckia Nobilis Silver. It will last a long time and will be an exotic luxury.

[tim_brissy_13]

Some of these have been suggested but sounds like you’ll have plenty of suitable choices. I’d be avoiding Phoenix sp because of thorns near a pool, and if you want to avoid too large and keep to pinnate species, then:

Chrysalidocarpus onilahensis, baronii, ambositrae and maybe even the slightly more tender species like leptocheilos if they’ll do ok in your winter (wet and cool conditions may be a challenge for the more tropical species) and if not too large 

Chamaedorea radicalis - can take a good amount of sun

Ravenea glauca and R hildebrandtii - good replacements for Phoenix roebelinii but without spines. They don’t get too large 

Cyphophoenix elegans. Probably the most suitable New Caledonian for your purpose. Tough and not too large. Also consider Chambeyronia macrocarpa and C oliviformis unless they’re larger than you’d like. 
 

By the way, I’d avoid planting Strelitzia nicolai if that was your plan. They’ll look nice for a couple of years and fill a spot for you well and quickly, but then will grow into a massive clump of large stems and be difficult to remove. 

[happypalms]

Howea fosteriana or bellmooreana. They should be available and always have that tropical look. Avoid anything that sets a lot of seeds around pools, the mess seeds can make and are a hazard. Howea are self cleaning as well. Good luck there are many types of palms out there. The above comments have noted some good ones and ones to avoid. 

[Hu Palmeras]

17 hours ago, Gitano Iwan said:

I will take a look, if we can get some here, I think it's difficult never saw one here in 

 Try to go buy or have a Bismarckia sent to you from Spain.

[Phoenikakias]

16 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

 

Strelitzia have nasty, wire-like roots. I feel not safe regarding their ability to destroy pvc pipe lines.

[gyuseppe]

16 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

 

By the way, I’d avoid planting Strelitzia nicolai if that was your plan. They’ll look nice for a couple of years and fill a spot for you well and quickly, but then will grow into a massive clump of large stems and be difficult to remove. 

yes, I speak from personal experience

[gyuseppe]

11 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Strelitzia have nasty, wire-like roots. I feel not safe regarding their ability to destroy pvc pipe lines.

yes, I speak from personal experience

[Gitano Iwan]

1 hour ago, Phoenikakias said:

Strelitzia have nasty, wire-like roots. I feel not safe regarding their ability to destroy pvc pipe lines.

So beter make a concrete case for them? On the right side wall the foundation is concrete and I can lay blocken on it 40 or 50 cm high!

[Gitano Iwan]

On 10/17/2025 at 4:31 PM, Harry’s Palms said:

Be aware of Phoenix palms , they are armed with thorns . With your climate , you can grow even more exotic varieties of palms . Different heights of plants would make a filled in look with visual diversity . I love Pygmy palms but I always end up getting poked when I trim them. Harry

Chambeyronia Macrocarpa , would enjoy a bit of overhead protection

Chrysalidiocarpus Decarii full sun , good drawing soil. To the left is a Roystonia Oleracae , a much smaller trunk than Regia

Butia Oderata ( silver palm with pinnate fronds) full sun , very cool tolerant but take space once matureThis Dioon cycad is thorny like Phoenix palms but adds diversity . Planted amongst several Pygmy palms and the Chambeyronia , Roystonia

In the middle , with inflorescence, is Archontophoenix Alexandrea, larger trunk than Cunninghamiana , not as cool tolerant but would be good for 10a

Where can I find my USDA zone if I google it, some say 9B, some say 10a, I searched for tempetures below zero last 2 years and I found nothing, when I ask Google it says below zero °C is very very rare and last 3 a 4 years didn't freeze at all 

[iko.]

2 hours ago, Gitano Iwan said:

Where can I find my USDA zone if I google it, some say 9B, some say 10a, I searched for tempetures below zero last 2 years and I found nothing, when I ask Google it says below zero °C is very very rare and last 3 a 4 years didn't freeze at all 

Check local weather stations. I think I found one near where you live on Weather Underground, see here.  You can look up temperatures from previous years in the “Weather History” section. It’s possible you have a microclimate there with no frost, but I checked several stations in your area and all of them show temperatures below freezing every winter.

USDA map of Portugal here, take it with a pinch of salt. USDA zones don’t translate very well to other countries. In fact, they’re not always that reliable even within the United States.

[Gitano Iwan]

I realized hahaha, I know it is very rare that the temperature drops below zero só I think it is more a 10a then a 9b 

[Hu Palmeras]

Very cool my Friend