Is there a true green form Chambeyronia macrocarpa?

[happypalms]

This macrocarpa at first threw out red leaves. Now for the past 10 years no red leaf, it slowly began to lose its colourful leaves over time and now just a green leaf.  It’s a mystery to me. So what’s going on is it something that always happens? Or just a mutant! 

[Fusca]

I believe there are some C. macrocarpa that only produce green fronds but they're rare.  I don't recall if they produce red new fronds when young though.  It's a shame that you have so few rare palms Richard!  😆

[Hu Palmeras]

I bought some Chambeyronia Macrocarpa seeds. I hope that being a baby palm, they'll produce red spearfishing. I read in an article that some palm trees produce red leaves and others don't. It's strange.

[richnorm]

Var viridis.   I got some seed of one which has green new leaf, very wide leaflets and extreme watermelon markings so take your pick which box that belongs in!

[happypalms]

2 hours ago, Fusca said:

I believe there are some C. macrocarpa that only produce green fronds but they're rare.  I don't recall if they produce red new fronds when young though.  It's a shame that you have so few rare palms Richard!  😆

Ok sounds about right. And a crying shame I don’t have many rare palms, that reminds me I better go look at my variegated lanonia dasyantha to see if it’s still alive. I  might have to kill a few more rare ones next winter @Fusca🤣

[happypalms]

4 minutes ago, happypalms said:

Ok sounds about right. And a crying shame I don’t have many rare palms, that reminds me I better go look at my variegated lanonia dasyantha to see if it’s still alive. I  might have to kill a few more rare ones next winter @Fusca🤣

Yer I had a look it’s still alive next to my marojejya darinii, such a shame it’s still alive 🤣

[happypalms]

16 minutes ago, happypalms said:

Yer I had a look it’s still alive next to my marojejya darinii, such a shame it’s still alive 🤣

 

[Harry’s Palms]

Also , the rest of the palm looks a bit lighter in color than the Macrocarpa I have seen . It could be the photo not showing what is actually there , but it seems like a different color ( in the crown shaft and fresh rings) . The fronds look like normal though , and a beautiful palm . An oddity for sure.
      You may want to dig it up and ship it to Santa Paula California so it doesn’t corrupt the rest of your forest . I have a home for palms like that ! You could visit during normal visiting hours . Harry

[happypalms]

12 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Also , the rest of the palm looks a bit lighter in color than the Macrocarpa I have seen . It could be the photo not showing what is actually there , but it seems like a different color ( in the crown shaft and fresh rings) . The fronds look like normal though , and a beautiful palm . An oddity for sure.
      You may want to dig it up and ship it to Santa Paula California so it doesn’t corrupt the rest of your forest . I have a home for palms like that ! You could visit during normal visiting hours . Harry

I like the way you think, standard visiting hours, oddities. You’re a man with a vision and I can see that vision now, all my palms in a shipping container or two headed to the good old US of A California here we come. And with such exotic locations as Santa Paula it sounds even better. 
But yes it does have a bit of a lime green trunk look I noticed that, the next leaf that opens I will be definitely looking closer at it and see what is really going on.

Richard 

[happypalms]

On 10/5/2025 at 11:29 AM, richnorm said:

Var viridis.   I got some seed of one which has green new leaf, very wide leaflets and extreme watermelon markings so take your pick which box that belongs in!

I was looking at the watermelon marks and thought the same, what or who is it with those markings only confuses it more. And you’re saying you had something very similar possibly a genetic mutation. 

[happypalms]

On 10/5/2025 at 11:10 AM, Hu Palmeras said:

I bought some Chambeyronia Macrocarpa seeds. I hope that being a baby palm, they'll produce red spearfishing. I read in an article that some palm trees produce red leaves and others don't. It's strange.

From my experience with macrocarpa and I germinated 800 of them over the years they all have red new leaves. Out of so many I may have missed seeing one that doesn’t have new red leaves, so individually it may be easier to spit the difference. The one in question was planted 25 years ago from a batch of 15 seedlings I purchased.

[sonoranfans]

My macrocarpas and macrocarpa hookeri's can vary in the red color over time on a single palm.  Might be red/maroon or just red.  I have yet to see a green leaf but I had a very disappointing leaf in the heat this summer on the watermelon.   A few leaflets in the spear popped earlier in our may/june dry heat with minimal rain.  5 leaflets that did open were showing some rose/yellow color, but the rest of the spear wouldn't open.  When that spear did open weeks later, it was yellow-green before turning green.  Might be due to a spear that wouldn't open in normal time for some reason.

[richnorm]

16 hours ago, happypalms said:

I was looking at the watermelon marks and thought the same, what or who is it with those markings only confuses it more. And you’re saying you had something very similar possibly a genetic mutation. 

I think they came from a distinct population in habitat. All 10 seed came out the same. 

[happypalms]

2 minutes ago, richnorm said:

I think they came from a distinct population in habitat. All 10 seed came out the same. 

So it’s possible then there is a green form true to type, lacking in anthocyanins. 

[happypalms]

34 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

My macrocarpas and macrocarpa hookeri's can vary in the red color over time on a single palm.  Might be red/maroon or just red.  I have yet to see a green leaf but I had a very disappointing leaf in the heat this summer on the watermelon.   A few leaflets in the spear popped earlier in our may/june dry heat with minimal rain.  5 leaflets that did open were showing some rose/yellow color, but the rest of the spear wouldn't open.  When that spear did open weeks later, it was yellow-green before turning green.  Might be due to a spear that wouldn't open in normal time for some reason.

I have noticed the more water and cool night temperatures, with warm days give a more maroon colour. It had two spears that just sat there for months then one opened green, still waiting on the other one. Recently we have had over 2000mm of rainfall and it’s at the back of the laundry shed so no lack of moisture that’s for sure. 

[tim_brissy_13]

This key might help, although worth noting it’s based on descriptions from habitat. In cultivation the are generations of Chambeyronia and I suspect there’s now a bit of a spectrum of traits out there. 
 

 

[Tyrone]

I had a seed lot from RPS of macrocarpa and some new leaves were red and others were just green and never coloured up as the plant aged. Will be interesting to see if the green ones develop a watermelon trunk as they age. 

[Harry’s Palms]

I will say that my Macrocarpa was from a Watermellon parent but has very little of the feature . The new frond used to be quite the display but now it is gone in about 3 days and not near as red . Harry

[Hu Palmeras]

I believe that hybridization among Chambeyronias causes the red leaf traits to be lost, and some preserve them very well.

Hybridization sometimes preserves the traits, and sometimes some external traits or qualities are lost. To such an extent that they can lose much of their original appearance (phenotype). This happens with Phoenix reclinatas when they are not pure. They lose their original characteristics, but they can retain them to a large or small extent. Even more so when hybridization always occurs between species.

[happypalms]

7 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

This key might help, although worth noting it’s based on descriptions from habitat. In cultivation the are generations of Chambeyronia and I suspect there’s now a bit of a spectrum of traits out there. 
 

 

Interesting key, the seedlings originally came from Rich trapnell, and one would suspect from Rich a source of imported seeds. Most likely from the US, but who really knows. 

[happypalms]

4 hours ago, Tyrone said:

I had a seed lot from RPS of macrocarpa and some new leaves were red and others were just green and never coloured up as the plant aged. Will be interesting to see if the green ones develop a watermelon trunk as they age. 

I have only seen one wow watermelon palm, all the rest so so. It’s difficult to tell from so many seedlings in a batch you lose track of them unless individually planted out. I do believe you have a few Chambeyronia seedlings going and that was a watermelon mother. So keep an eye out on the. The problem with palms is it takes ten years or more for traits to really show up. 

[happypalms]

4 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

I will say that my Macrocarpa was from a Watermellon parent but has very little of the feature . The new frond used to be quite the display but now it is gone in about 3 days and not near as red . Harry

More water Harry that may get the anthocyanins going. 
Richard 

[happypalms]

4 hours ago, Hu Palmeras said:

I believe that hybridization among Chambeyronias causes the red leaf traits to be lost, and some preserve them very well.

Hybridization sometimes preserves the traits, and sometimes some external traits or qualities are lost. To such an extent that they can lose much of their original appearance (phenotype). This happens with Phoenix reclinatas when they are not pure. They lose their original characteristics, but they can retain them to a large or small extent. Even more so when hybridization always occurs between species.

I guess it comes down to genotype and phenotype, with the genes being the main culprit at hand. Inbreeding lines differ from back crossing and the same with hybridisation. And with Mother Nature ruling what happens in habitat, it all gets blurred in cultivation, unless records are kept. And most home gardens in suburban areas are at a lose as to the real parenting. 

[Hu Palmeras]

Richard my friend, you know there are Archontophoenix Alexandrae with red leaves. There's a very small percentage. Did they inherit that trait or characteristic from hybridization with Chambeyronia? And these two palm trees are compatible because they belong to the Chambeyronia family. Palm trees are alive and reproduce like we do, and we work with living beings, so we should learn a lot from them.

[tim_brissy_13]

5 hours ago, Hu Palmeras said:

Richard my friend, you know there are Archontophoenix Alexandrae with red leaves. There's a very small percentage. Did they inherit that trait or characteristic from hybridization with Chambeyronia? And these two palm trees are compatible because they belong to the Chambeyronia family. Palm trees are alive and reproduce like we do, and we work with living beings, so we should learn a lot from them.

Not uncommon for A alexandrae and some other Archontophoenix sp to have red emergent fronds. Even in habitat. Nothing to do with hybridisation. 

[happypalms]

5 hours ago, Hu Palmeras said:

Richard my friend, you know there are Archontophoenix Alexandrae with red leaves. There's a very small percentage. Did they inherit that trait or characteristic from hybridization with Chambeyronia? And these two palm trees are compatible because they belong to the Chambeyronia family. Palm trees are alive and reproduce like we do, and we work with living beings, so we should learn a lot from them.

No I don’t think so, a hybrid as you said is just a phenotype of both parents. It would be highly unlikely archontophoenix would be cross pollinating with Chambeyronia. 

[PalmatierMeg]

Very beautiful variation. Not every macrocarpa flush red leaves but the green palms are much rarer than typical flamethrowers. I believe all/the majority of my flamethrowers also have watermelon trunks, which people go ga-ga over. I'd love to try a solid green variety but they are very hard to find, probably because of scarcity, plus red leaf and watermelon bias.

[richnorm]

On 10/7/2025 at 9:10 AM, tim_brissy_13 said:

This key might help, although worth noting it’s based on descriptions from habitat. In cultivation the are generations of Chambeyronia and I suspect there’s now a bit of a spectrum of traits out there. 
 

 

Have you ever seen or heard of Roxanniae in cultivation?  

[Hu Palmeras]

Look at the Chambeyronia, it's simply beautiful. One of the most beautiful palm trees, and a must-have in your collection.

[happypalms]

3 minutes ago, Hu Palmeras said:

Look at the Chambeyronia, it's simply beautiful. One of the most beautiful palm trees, and a must-have in your collection.

Any of the New Caledonia palms are a must have in your collection! Not just macrocarpa or hookeri. 

[Hu Palmeras]

[happypalms]

7 hours ago, Hu Palmeras said:

You can houailou me anytime. 

[Hu Palmeras]

Of course, I congratulate you, Richard, on that Chambeyronia Houailouensis. Our work with palm trees is so noble and beautiful. They're both unique and exotic, and we all learn together.

[happypalms]

19 minutes ago, Hu Palmeras said:

Of course, I congratulate you, Richard, on that Chambeyronia Houailouensis. Our work with palm trees is so noble and beautiful. They're both unique and exotic, and we all learn together.

Highly sought after the houalouensis in Australia, available but you have to look. I have been lucky enough to come across 4 and iam grateful for that.

[Hu Palmeras]

That's right, Richard. Houailouensis is perfection itself. And you know, we don't waste time and don't beat around the bush.