New Smyrna Beach coconut and other exotics

[Golden10]

Spotted these today in New Smyrna Beach, FL. As far as I know this is the south end of 9b. Pretty rare to see these

[Bill H2DB]

   During the last few years a lot of large Cocos , and other Tropicals  have been planted all over the North area of Central Florida . 

There's a number of Cocos in the Daytona / Ormond / Holly Hill area , and considerably farther north as well .  Driving around in various neighborhoods reveals a lot . 

   There's a lot of sheltered areas on the west side of the Intracoastal as well , and Inland ,  around lakes and rivers . Sooner or later Ma Nature will provide a real test, once again.........

 

  

[Golden10]

37 minutes ago, Bill H2DB said:

   During the last few years a lot of large Cocos , and other Tropicals  have been planted all over the North area of Central Florida . 

There's a number of Cocos in the Daytona / Ormond / Holly Hill area , and considerably farther north as well .  Driving around in various neighborhoods reveals a lot . 

   There's a lot of sheltered areas on the west side of the Intracoastal as well , and Inland ,  around lakes and rivers . Sooner or later Ma Nature will provide a real test, once again.........

 

  

Yes, I have seen multiple coconuts along the intercoastal in Ormond off John Andersen along with large Areca hedges 

[PalmatierMeg]

20 minutes ago, Bill H2DB said:

   During the last few years a lot of large Cocos , and other Tropicals  have been planted all over the North area of Central Florida . 

There's a number of Cocos in the Daytona / Ormond / Holly Hill area , and considerably farther north as well .  Driving around in various neighborhoods reveals a lot . 

   There's a lot of sheltered areas on the west side of the Intracoastal as well , and Inland ,  around lakes and rivers . Sooner or later Ma Nature will provide a real test, once again.........

 

  

Agree with Bill. Their size may hold off the inevitable but sooner or later the Grim Reaper will come for them. I'm not sure but do any of them flower or fruit? Coconut seeds take 2 years to ripen so they have to survive 2 years of 9b winters. Here in SWFL my coconuts abort the majority of their unripe seeds as well as flowers as a matter of course. In 2.015 I had just one dwarf red spicata seed germinate out of my mother palm's whole crop. It is now large enough to seed for the first time so I can find out if it duplicates its late mother's (thanks, Irma) dismal reproductive efforts. My bet is most seeds abort after the coming winter, aside from those that already have. In HI coconuts can survive some mountain climates but above 1,000' elevation they don't fruit. You will never grow a grove of fruiting coconuts outdoors beyond FL in the mainland US. Uber, uber tropical. Don't believe shysters on eBay that say you can.

[Golden10]

6 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Agree with Bill. Their size may hold off the inevitable but sooner or later the Grim Reaper will come for them. I'm not sure but do any of them flower or fruit? Coconut seeds take 2 years to ripen so they have to survive 2 years of 9b winters. Here in SWFL my coconuts abort the majority of their unripe seeds as well as flowers as a matter of course. In 2.015 I had just one dwarf red spicata seed germinate out of my mother palm's whole crop. It is now large enough to seed for the first time so I can find out if it duplicates its late mother's (thanks, Irma) dismal reproductive efforts. My bet is most seeds abort after the coming winter, aside from those that already have. In HI coconuts can survive some mountain climates but above 1,000' elevation they don't fruit. You will never grow a grove of fruiting coconuts outdoors beyond FL in the mainland US. Uber, uber tropical. Don't believe shysters on eBay that say you can.

I’m sure it helps that they are planted a couple blocks from the ocean as well 

[PalmatierMeg]

17 minutes ago, Golden10 said:

I’m sure it helps that they are planted a couple blocks from the ocean as well 

Not necessarily. The Gulf here tends to moderate winter cold fronts. What you don't want to see are cold fronts diving down directly from the north, i.e., Siberia & Canada over dry land. Nor do you want to get a northern rain front. Cold rain is lethal. My all-time low in Jan. 2010 on a rainy day dropped from 35F (already lethal) to 28.5F. I got acute bronchitis trying to protect our many small palms. I lost over 30 species of palms and more were dying 9 months later. Hasn't happened since but rain + <50F kills.

[Golden10]

2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Not necessarily. The Gulf here tends to moderate winter cold fronts. What you don't want to see are cold fronts diving down directly from the north, i.e., Siberia & Canada over dry land. Nor do you want to get a northern rain front. Cold rain is lethal. My all-time low in Jan. 2010 on a rainy day dropped from 35F (already lethal) to 28.5F. I got acute bronchitis trying to protect our many small palms. I lost over 30 species of palms and more were dying 9 months later. Hasn't happened since but rain + <50F kills.

For sure, I guess what I was referencing more is there is a good microclimate there which is evident by the vegetation in the areas of New Smyrna beach inter coastal and areas near the beach vs the mainland. If you’re ever in the area check out the restaurant outriggers on the intercostal, whole area surrounding restaurant is decked out with tropical plants including many mature royals 

[kinzyjr]

2 hours ago, Golden10 said:

For sure, I guess what I was referencing more is there is a good microclimate there which is evident by the vegetation in the areas of New Smyrna beach inter coastal and areas near the beach vs the mainland. If you’re ever in the area check out the restaurant outriggers on the intercostal, whole area surrounding restaurant is decked out with tropical plants including many mature royals 

We've had CFPACS lunch breaks at Outriggers before.  There are quite a few coconuts in that area now.  The latest USDA hardiness map puts the barrier islands and the area hugging the coast east of I-95 tapering off to east of US-1 in 10a now, for what it is worth.  The zone isn't as important as one bad night, but enjoy them while we can.

[Bill H2DB]

Here is a video that I made today.   These palms have been in place since about 2015 or so. They are in Ormond by the Sea , on the beachside in northern Volusia County .

I first saw them in 2017.  They were damaged in a 2018 Freeze , and again in 2022 .  That have nuts on them now .  Click on the red link below the video .

Sandra Cocos )ct. 5 '25 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

 

[Golden10]

2 hours ago, Bill H2DB said:

Here is a video that I made today.   These palms have been in place since about 2015 or so. They are in Ormond by the Sea , on the beachside in northern Volusia County .

I first saw them in 2017.  They were damaged in a 2018 Freeze , and again in 2022 .  That have nuts on them now .  Click on the red link below the video .

Sandra Cocos )ct. 5 '25 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

 

Not sure if this is the same house/people but I was told there someone in the Ormond by the sea area that runs that tropical nursery in Ormond off 95 that has coconuts. Those are impressive for Ormond 

[kinzyjr]

Perhaps the most famous coconut palm in the Daytona Beach area: Pre-2010 Coconut in Daytona Beach

I imagine the Tropical Manor Hotel Coconut is still with us if it wasn't removed.

Here is the a thread that may be of interest to the original poster:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/53333-north-central-fl-coconuts/

[ck_in_fla]

My family has our annual week at the beach at New Smyrna Beach every year,  We have been doing this since the early 1980's.  So, we were over there the first week of September.  I have seen more coconut palms planted on the barrier island every year.  This year we went to one of our favorite restaurants, JB's Fish Camp.  To reach this location, we have to exit the resort on A-1-A and proceed South.  In the 4 or 5 miles we drove, I saw literally hundreds of coconut palms planted.  Some of them are getting quite tall and have coconuts on them.  So, barring a hundred year weather event, it looks like that thin strip of land could be zone 10B going forward.  We will just have to wait and see if climate change is long term in this area.  It's too bad I was driving or I could have taken lots of pictures.  Hopefully someone else will make their way over there and get some images they can share here.

[PalmatierMeg]

Hmmmm. Looks like I need to re-educate myself regarding coconuts - a lot has changed climate-wise in the past 15-16 years. As long as coconuts are planted close to the Gulf in central, SFL, SWFL and in oddball microclimates. they may have a chance for survival, at least temporarily. In the past I lost coconuts in z10a, more like 10b now, so the chances of a cold death are never far away. Good thing they grow fast as they can look ratty after even after a typical winter (mine do). But since 2010 where all my coconuts croaked from the cold, only a few have keeled over dead. So, yeah, go for it. Even if they croak in FL they are plentiful and cheap as dirt if you know where to look. Most of ours came floating down the canal.

[ck_in_fla]

On 10/7/2025 at 7:44 AM, PalmatierMeg said:

Hmmmm. Looks like I need to re-educate myself regarding coconuts - a lot has changed climate-wise in the past 15-16 years. As long as coconuts are planted close to the Gulf in central, SFL, SWFL and in oddball microclimates. they may have a chance for survival, at least temporarily. In the past I lost coconuts in z10a, more like 10b now, so the chances of a cold death are never far away. Good thing they grow fast as they can look ratty after even after a typical winter (mine do). But since 2010 where all my coconuts croaked from the cold, only a few have keeled over dead. So, yeah, go for it. Even if they croak in FL they are plentiful and cheap as dirt if you know where to look. Most of ours came floating down the canal.

Meg, they are "dirt cheap" around here as you indicate.  Recently, I even saw some in Publix of all places for $18.99.  These were sprouted coconuts in 1 gallon pots.  Of course they need to be repotted almost immediately.  But, there were lots of them and for that price, if you have an interest you can't beat it. 

So, your assessment is spot on...

[SeanK]

On 10/4/2025 at 5:11 PM, Golden10 said:

For sure, I guess what I was referencing more is there is a good microclimate there which is evident by the vegetation in the areas of New Smyrna beach inter coastal and areas near the beach vs the mainland. If you’re ever in the area check out the restaurant outriggers on the intercostal, whole area surrounding restaurant is decked out with tropical plants including many mature royals 

Are there other zone indicators like Seagrape and Mangrove? How large are they?

[ck_in_fla]

3 hours ago, SeanK said:

Are there other zone indicators like Seagrape and Mangrove? How large are they?

Good point!  Yes, seagrape is very evident on the barrier island as you come in from the South Causeway.  And, even before that the Mangroves are all growing especially on the South side of the causeway.  Some of the Seagrapes are becoming trees along A-1-A South of where SR44 intersects.  Who knows, these indicators may be part of a long-term change.  Time will tell,

[Golden10]

8 hours ago, SeanK said:

Are there other zone indicators like Seagrape and Mangrove? How large are they?

I could be wrong but I believe there are sea grape all the way up to Flagler beach area 

[kinzyjr]

26 minutes ago, Golden10 said:

I could be wrong but I believe there are sea grape all the way up to Flagler beach area 

Supposedly, that's the native cut-off. 

https://www.fnps.org/plant/coccoloba-uvifera

If you keep your eye out going up A1A, you'll find people planting them and volunteers a good way further north.  The example below has been around since the beginning of Google Street View Time: St. Augustine Beach - A1A Sea Grape

We had a good meeting up that way this summer.  All three sites had a plethora of plants no one expected to see:

CFPACS Summer 2025 Meeting - St. Augustine, FL

[SeanK]

I think with Seagrape, folks look at how large the plants are. Are they shrubs, burned by the cold every 10 years or are they large trees?

[kinzyjr]

2 hours ago, SeanK said:

I think with Seagrape, folks look at how large the plants are. Are they shrubs, burned by the cold every 10 years or are they large trees?

Good Point.  It will be interesting to see what happens with these in Atlantic Beach

• Sea Grape #1
• Sea Grape #2
• Sea Grape #3

Seems like they took a decent hit in 2022 and came back.  Might be a case where a winter a little below normal is enough to kill the foliage and some of the top growth, but the roots stay intact.

[Jdash]

@Golden10as far as i've seen on the atlantic side, i believe you are correct, the majority of our microclimates reside along the coast, you can see how dramatic this is looking at hardiness zones starting at satellite beach and moving directly west. it's pretty impressive to see what has survived decades in satellite beach.  New Smyrna beach seems like a big difference from satellite, so pretty impressive

[Bill H2DB]

On 10/9/2025 at 9:18 AM, SeanK said:

Are there other zone indicators like Seagrape and Mangrove? How large are they?

    Mangroves have been here forever .    In fact , here is a recent arrest of a suspect found hiding in mangroves in the Halifax River ( aka Intracoastal waterway . )   https://www.newsdaytonabeach.com/stories/vso-arrests-carjacking-suspect-from-mangroves,133697

   Seagrapes , like wise , are here . I have lived here for about 70 years , and they were once seen in the natural dunes , but development has erased the majority of those .  Still , on the beachside , old plants still exist .  In my time , I have seen them become large , then freeze back ,( sometimes to the ground ), and return  numerous times .   The same for many , many tropicals , such as various Ficus , Mango , etc etc . 

    Currently we have been in a period with no significant freezes , but sooner or later , we'll have a killing freeze of some degree . 

       The proximity of the Ocean helps us when the cold winds are from the North and NE , but if the coldest are from the NW , then the ocean is of little help.   The opposite happens on the West coast of Florida .    (The coast here on the east slants toward the west at about 13 degrees or so .)     Lots of other factors in a Freeze , and they each have their own personality .   I've been through the 1957-8 , 1962 , 1983 , 1985 , 1993 , and other significant events along the way .

[Maddox Gardening-youtube]

On 10/9/2025 at 6:15 PM, Golden10 said:

I could be wrong but I believe there are sea grape all the way up to Flagler beach area 

You’re right, mangroves are also here in some parts of Jacksonville.

[Maddox Gardening-youtube]

On 10/9/2025 at 11:15 PM, kinzyjr said:

Good Point.  It will be interesting to see what happens with these in Atlantic Beach

• Sea Grape #1
• Sea Grape #2
• Sea Grape #3

Seems like they took a decent hit in 2022 and came back.  Might be a case where a winter a little below normal is enough to kill the foliage and some of the top growth, but the roots stay intact.

Three’s also an Christmas palm in sea grape number 3

[Maddox Gardening-youtube]

Wild looking accident coconut in Daytona beach. Surrounded by bushes so probably well protected.

[SeanK]

On 10/9/2025 at 11:15 PM, kinzyjr said:

Good Point.  It will be interesting to see what happens with these in Atlantic Beach

• Sea Grape #1
• Sea Grape #2
• Sea Grape #3

Seems like they took a decent hit in 2022 and came back.  Might be a case where a winter a little below normal is enough to kill the foliage and some of the top growth, but the roots stay intact.

Those are pretty small. I've seen much larger at the sponge docks in Tarpon Springs.

[SeanK]

4 hours ago, Maddox Gardening-youtube said:

Three’s also an Christmas palm in sea grape number 3

Not sure what that is. Looking at the area on Google Street, it's 97% S.palmetto. I saw two Queens and one W.robusta.

[kinzyjr]

4 hours ago, Maddox Gardening-youtube said:

Three’s also an Christmas palm in sea grape number 3

The link I included was from April 2022.  I fished around and found a view on 10th st that was from May 2024 and it didn't appear that any of the Christmas Palms were there anymore.  It could be bad resolution on that area of the photo.  If there are Adonidia merrillii that far north in Florida, this is the area I'd expect them to be - somewhere from Mayport down to Jax Beach.

[ck_in_fla]

22 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

The link I included was from April 2022.  I fished around and found a view on 10th st that was from May 2024 and it didn't appear that any of the Christmas Palms were there anymore.  It could be bad resolution on that area of the photo.  If there are Adonidia merrillii that far north in Florida, this is the area I'd expect them to be - somewhere from Mayport down to Jax Beach.

In my narrative above, I neglected to include that there were also some Adonidia merrillii planted in the yards on A-1-A as I traveled South from the causeway in New Smyrna Beach.

[kinzyjr]

CFPACS has had a few meetings in the area over the years.  A few links below for those interested:

• Summer 2022: Dunlawton Sugar Mill Gardens + Coronado Beach Civic Center
  • Meeting Link
  • The Palmateer
• Spring 2021: Daytona Beach + Oak Hill
  • Meeting Link
  • The Palmateer
• Fall 2021 FCPCS Meeting: Glen St. Mary
  • Meeting Link
  • The Palmtateer
• Summer 2019: Dunlawton Sugar Mill Gardens + Private Garden of the CFPACS President in New Smyrna Beach
  • Meeting Link
  • The Palmateer

There are more links and publications on the CFPACS publications page: https://cfpacs.com/org/palmateer/

 

The 2nd Anniversary Celebration at SJBGNP on November 1st might be of interest to a few folks participating in this discussion as well:

• Website: https://www.stjohnsbotanicalgarden.org/event/2nd-anniversary-celebration/
• PalmTalk Thread: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/71456-st-johns-botanical-garden-hastings-fl/#comment-1234658

[Maddox Gardening-youtube]

57 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

CFPACS has had a few meetings in the area over the years.  A few links below for those interested:

• Summer 2022: Dunlawton Sugar Mill Gardens + Coronado Beach Civic Center
  • Meeting Link
  • The Palmateer
• Spring 2021: Daytona Beach + Oak Hill
  • Meeting Link
  • The Palmateer
• Fall 2021 FCPCS Meeting: Glen St. Mary
  • Meeting Link
  • The Palmtateer
• Summer 2019: Dunlawton Sugar Mill Gardens + Private Garden of the CFPACS President in New Smyrna Beach
  • Meeting Link
  • The Palmateer

There are more links and publications on the CFPACS publications page: https://cfpacs.com/org/palmateer/

 

The 2nd Anniversary Celebration at SJBGNP on November 1st might be of interest to a few folks participating in this discussion as well:

• Website: https://www.stjohnsbotanicalgarden.org/event/2nd-anniversary-celebration/
• PalmTalk Thread: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/71456-st-johns-botanical-garden-hastings-fl/#comment-1234658

Where will the next meeting be?

 

[kinzyjr]

47 minutes ago, Maddox Gardening-youtube said:

Where will the next meeting be?

 

It is set to be in Sarasota, FL at Rob Branch's place: 

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/91407-central-florida-palm-cycad-society-holiday-2025-meeting/

I talked to the president the other night about hosting a booth at the 2nd Anniversary Celebration for St. Johns.  One of our board members is giving the fertilizer presentation.

[Merlyn]

I have been growing sea grapes and clusia here for a couple of years.  The sea grapes burn pretty bad below freezing, especially with frost.  But when they were getting established they did burn to the ground at about 26F with frost.  They grew back really fast, and have since just taken some leaf burn around 30F.  I'd guess (with no real evidence) that you could get some decent sized trunks barring mid 20s freezes.  I recall seeing some near Flagler that looked pretty stout, so had probably been growing there for many years.

The clusia I only planted last summer, and it only saw one or two mild frosts in the mid 30s, so I don't know yet if it'll be in a similar hardiness range.

 

[Jdash]

Seagrape#4 same road between #1 & #2

[Jdash]

Seagrape_north wonder how long these will last @kinzyjr

[Johnny Palmseed]

Zone pushing sea grapes vs palms seems like a reasonable idea to me. Easy to control the size and right on the beach I would say that they have a chance. Even if they die back and regrow, they will still look like a normal plant. Much better than a palm.

[kinzyjr]

2 hours ago, Jdash said:

Seagrape_north wonder how long these will last @kinzyjr

Good question.  Time will tell.  If there is a nasty cold snap like back in the 1980s, who knows if the roots will survive and allow the foliage to come back from the ground.  The all-time low in Fernandina Beach is 4F, so that would be a challenge.