Thoughts on going legit?

[JohnAndSancho]

Ok, this got brought up in another thread, but I wanted to bounce some things off of you guys. Nursery licenses and dealer licenses (meaning I buy something from somewhere else to resell) are free in the state and I get inspected once or twice a year, no biggie. But this opens me up to selling at Farmers Markets. 

 

For a name, I'm thinking Sancho's Green Paws - Heirloom Natives and Tropicals. Start out with like the Crape Myrtles, willows, bulbs from my Granny's flowers, etc etc and the cost to me is virtually zero. I can literally reforest the entire state in Hot Pink Crape Myrtles and Black Willows. Focus on the marketing aspects of organic everything, and sustainable/reusable packaging as selling points, reusing everything I possibly can and whatnot. 

Reactivate (ugh) Facebook just for Marketplace to sell locally. Open up on Etsy and maybe eBay, use eBay to clean this house out. There's so much clutter and junk and so much crap we'll never use - I don't like the idea of paying that much in fees but it seems a necessary evil for a lot of my niche collectibles and old truck magazines. 

Def don't want to step on the toes of anyone who has helped me out from here so that's a concern for me ethically, even if I'm years away from being a serious operation. And I definitely don't have the drive or ambition to compete with @Sabal King or @teddytn in the palm aspect either. If I make enough to pay for my own prescriptions after expenses, it's a win. 

Thoughts? Advice? Profanities? 

[UK_Palms]

The situation isn’t too dissimilar on this side of the pond in terms of all the red tape and licensing and what not. I get them imposing it, but it is also a lot of hassle and a large cost, which isn’t necessarily worthwhile. If you are going to go all in, you have to go ALL in… and make a proper enterprise/business out of it. Otherwise stick to EBay, FB, Craigslist etc. Much cheaper and more convenient for smaller scale business.

I won’t be going all in for some time. One day, but not now. Not in the next 5 years probably. I am only 32. I will wait until I can properly invest the time, money and resources into it. Otherwise it isn’t worth the costs involved. Go hard or go home. Half measures will not be successful when you factor in all the costs nowadays. It will be the difference between succeeding in the longer term and failing in the short/mid term. The amount of red tape does us no favours, but it is what it is. I would wait for now.

[JohnAndSancho]

28 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

The situation isn’t too dissimilar on this side of the pond in terms of all the red tape and licensing and what not. I get them imposing it, but it is also a lot of hassle and a large cost, which isn’t necessarily worthwhile. If you are going to go all in, you have to go ALL in… and make a proper enterprise/business out of it. Otherwise stick to EBay, FB, Craigslist etc. Much cheaper and more convenient for smaller scale business.

I won’t be going all in for some time. One day, but not now. Not in the next 5 years probably. I am only 32. I will wait until I can properly invest the time, money and resources into it. Otherwise it isn’t worth the costs involved. Go hard or go home. Half measures will not be successful when you factor in all the costs nowadays. It will be the difference between succeeding in the longer term and failing in the short/mid term. The amount of red tape does us no favours, but it is what it is. I would wait for now.

Aside from the eBay/Etsy fees, soil and containers - which, let's be honest, I'd probably be buying anyway - it's free. Licenses are free, inspections are free, it just opens up the ability for me to sell at state and city sanctioned events which I currently can't. And they only inspect nursery stock which I'm actively trying to sell, so if he comes tomorrow and I tell him everything is a personal plant except for a Styrofoam box full of crape myrtle cuttings, that's all he inspects. It's a lot less involved than I thought, at least here in Mississippi. I doubt it works the same in places like California or Florida. They're just checking for pest and disease, and nothing I've got going is particularly pretty, but it's clean.

[UK_Palms]

@JohnAndSancho Well if you don’t have any operating costs or overheads from making the jump, I don’t know why you are asking the question. Go for it. There is nothing really stopping you. I was commenting on the pretence that you had inspection costs, startup and operating costs in general, taxes etc from starting up more of an enterprise. If you are just going to state fair type events, and there are little to no costs involved, that is a different story too. There isn’t really any risk involved.

For me, DEFRA inspections would cost money, as would plant certificates/passports and then there are taxes too and rival competitors to consider. That is on the basis of starting a proper online enterprise though and a real business. It’s just not worth it unless I am going ALL in and will throw everything at it. I would need investment, a LOT of time (I already work 9am a 6pm Mon-Fri), I would potentially need a business partner etc. Plenty of reasons why it is better to just do it off the books for now, as a low scale side business. But that is a different business model to what you are talking about.

[JohnAndSancho]

14 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

@JohnAndSancho Well if you don’t have any operating costs or overheads from making the jump, I don’t know why you are asking the question. Go for it. There is nothing really stopping you. I was commenting on the pretence that you had inspection costs, startup and operating costs in general, taxes etc from starting up more of an enterprise. If you are just going to state fair type events, and there are little to no costs involved, that is a different story too. There isn’t really any risk involved.

For me, DEFRA inspections would cost money, as would plant certificates/passports and then there are taxes too and rival competitors to consider. That is on the basis of starting a proper online enterprise though and a real business. It’s just not worth it unless I am going ALL in and will throw everything at it. I would need investment, a LOT of time (I already work 9am a 6pm Mon-Fri), I would potentially need a business partner etc. Plenty of reasons why it is better to just do it off the books for now, as a low scale side business. But that is a different business model to what you are talking about.

Oh there's still online sales and competitors, and doing that brings up income tax and sales tax concerns which I have no idea how it works.... And I don't know how it'd impact my disability application. They like to deny people for everything here and they might say if I can run a nursery I can work, but literally standing there with a hose while I walk the dog and turning some lights on and off doesn't mean I can work in a factory or retail. I also dunno if my posts make this really obvious, but I'm kind of a high strung dude with a lot of anxiety. 

[Sabal King]

oh man.. there is so much that I learned as we grew from just passively selling, to finally incorporating, paying taxes, nursery licenses,  compliance agreements to be able to ship.  All I will say, is unless you have a passion, want to devote your time to it, it's a LOT of work..

I thought there would be less business red tape than there is, but there is a lot!  Happy to answer more in depth questions if you have any.

[JohnAndSancho]

1 hour ago, Sabal King said:

oh man.. there is so much that I learned as we grew from just passively selling, to finally incorporating, paying taxes, nursery licenses,  compliance agreements to be able to ship.  All I will say, is unless you have a passion, want to devote your time to it, it's a LOT of work..

I thought there would be less business red tape than there is, but there is a lot!  Happy to answer more in depth questions if you have any.

I'm not ready to grow by the thousands and set up a greenhouse with drip irrigation and market as hard as you do! If I just make enough to pay for me and Sancho's prescriptions every month it's a win. Maybe small time on Etsy, Marketplace, and hit a farmers market once a month or something like that. It sounds like Mississippi is a lot more lax than other states though. 

 

[Sabal King]

5 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

I'm not ready to grow by the thousands and set up a greenhouse with drip irrigation and market as hard as you do! If I just make enough to pay for me and Sancho's prescriptions every month it's a win. Maybe small time on Etsy, Marketplace, and hit a farmers market once a month or something like that. It sounds like Mississippi is a lot more lax than other states though. 

 

Some things I learned…

selling palms and shipping via Etsy you need to have your nursery license and either issued phytos from your state ag, or evidence of your compliance agreement.  Without that you cannot legally ship across state lines.

i learned there a lots of small things you have to do once I officially incorporating the business.  It is great and worked out fine but I found you either do things under the radar and hope not to get your shipments stopped at which time your state ag guys will come knocking or, go full bore spend the money and time to incorporate do it the legal way.  Probably why there are not a lot of folks doing this.

[JohnAndSancho]

19 minutes ago, Sabal King said:

Some things I learned…

selling palms and shipping via Etsy you need to have your nursery license and either issued phytos from your state ag, or evidence of your compliance agreement.  Without that you cannot legally ship across state lines.

i learned there a lots of small things you have to do once I officially incorporating the business.  It is great and worked out fine but I found you either do things under the radar and hope not to get your shipments stopped at which time your state ag guys will come knocking or, go full bore spend the money and time to incorporate do it the legal way.  Probably why there are not a lot of folks doing this.

Licenses and inspections are free here. Does Etsy handle the sales tax themselves or am I responsible? And I'm guessing the sales come with 1099s for income tax? I made like, 3 sales on eBay 15 years ago and I don't think it mattered, I just sold some vintage car audio gear to free up closet space. 

[Sabal King]

17 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Licenses and inspections are free here. Does Etsy handle the sales tax themselves or am I responsible? And I'm guessing the sales come with 1099s for income tax? I made like, 3 sales on eBay 15 years ago and I don't think it mattered, I just sold some vintage car audio gear to free up closet space. 

free here too but takes time, effort, chemicals for the various harmonization plans, etc.  Etsy collects, and remits taxes but you need to also report to your local taxing authorities for sales you make in person, shows, etc... there is a LOT to it that I learned.

[JohnAndSancho]

3 minutes ago, Sabal King said:

free here too but takes time, effort, chemicals for the various harmonization plans, etc.  Etsy collects, and remits taxes but you need to also report to your local taxing authorities for sales you make in person, shows, etc... there is a LOT to it that I learned.

I don't even know what a harmonization plan is lol. I guess I'll Google after the Cubs game is over and make some phone calls next week. 

[JohnAndSancho]

Holy 💩. 

[JohnAndSancho]

That's a lot of paperwork for me to sell crape myrtles and willows to old ladies and bananas to hipsters and soccer moms. 

[JohnAndSancho]

Lol so much for facebook marketplace. They banned me for violating community standards before my account was even created. I guess I'll have to use my mom's 😂