To water or not to water?

September 16

Topic of watering or not watering a Palm is often asked. The best answer probably depends and I have no idea for all Palms. One speicies of Palm Jubaea specifically, my observation suggests that for best health Jubaea prefer several months of dry weather. Jubaea during dry season will conserve water by stop flowering, slowing growth and letting their lower leaves dry up, turn brown and fall off. When rains return at beginning of wet season Jubaea stop drying up their lower leaves, start growing new leaves and will flower.

If the Jubaea are watered during the dry season they never stop growing and will continue flowering. Lower leaves hang on semi green and won't drop off, but overall the plants don't seem to be as healthy nor do they look so good as when allowed to rest during a 4 or 5 months of dry weather.

I don't think there is any correct answer as to Water or Not to Water, but from observation of Jubaea in our location, letting them rest and dry up during a regular seasonal dry period helps overall. This seem logical considering native habitat of Jubaea, and so I wonder if this might also be true for other Palms. What do you think? Perhaps good answers can help growing Palms in climates outside of their native habitat, perhaps not.

September 16

I was just talking about this to a friend and fellow PT regular about this subject. I always thought the same about triangle palms . I have two fairly large ones and didn’t flood them with water like some of my Archontophoenix and other “ water lovers” . This year , after seeing my Roystonia Oleracae respond to copious amounts of water , I noticed the one Chrysalidiocarpus Decaryi next to it really respond in a positive way . So , I started watering the other Triangle palm more frequently and it also started looking better. Not all palms want a lot of water but if the soil is well amended and drains quickly , it can benefit . Harry

September 16

I can't speak on Jubeas, but when it comes to my houseplants (I had exactly 62 pots before some recent sales), I just let them tell me when they want water. I have a couple Crotons I got at the blue box store with water wicks, and I put those in clear plastic cups so I can tell when they're empty and they just soak up the water as they need it. My succulents get watered when they don't feel stiff.

Most of my stuff is small seedlings and what I do with them is just heavily mist the surface of the soil now. They don't have deep roots so there's no point in flooding their pots yet. I just put the water where they can get it. I'm trying to do better by my Philodendrons, but I treat most of them like the seedlings since they're all still relatively small. I mist the foliage of everything except the succulents and philodendrons nightly, and water the big palms (ha! They're like 3 gallon sized) once every week to 10 days.

My outside stuff I've been watering it 4 or 5 times a week just because it's been so hot and dry. It's 90 degrees and the oaks and crape myrtles are already dropping leaves. Oh well, free mulch.

Anyway this has nothing to do with Jubea or your climate, but I hope it's helpful for someone.

September 16

32 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

it's been so hot and dry. It's 90 degrees

Is that a "Normal" pattern for Mississippi? I am totally unfamiliar with southeast climates so only have knowledge of what I hear or read. In any case when places that do have normal seasonal changes suddenly become abnormal, plants and animals suffer. Extended droughts in the west in last century were abnormal, but today they are becoming normal and our forests are suffering.

September 16

@Banana Belt that has been my observation as well. Even a few decades ago the few Redwoods we have around here were doing well after being planted many years ago . The extended droughts which have been occurring for a long time are becoming more frequent . It seems we get all our rain inside of a very small window , then very dry for 9 months or so. The Redwoods have a lot of brown to them now . In all fairness , they shouldn’t be this far south anyway . Harry

September 16

26 minutes ago, Banana Belt said:

Is that a "Normal" pattern for Mississippi? I am totally unfamiliar with southeast climates so only have knowledge of what I hear or read. In any case when places that do have normal seasonal changes suddenly become abnormal, plants and animals suffer. Extended droughts in the west in last century were abnormal, but today they are becoming normal and our forests are suffering.

well, it's complicated. We usually get those afternoon pop up thunderstorms since temps and humidity % both stay in the low 90s all summer, and I'm deep out in the country. In town has got slightly below average rain this summer, but 12 miles away where I live, it's been insanely dry. I guess I need to invest in a rain gauge or something. Every time I hear thunder or see clouds, I look at the radar and watch it just go right around us. Microclimates are wild.

September 16

i think a question like this comes down to the specific palm / groups of palms and where they originate from.

Origin dictates how X or Y sp evolved / how flexible ( or not ) it might be to climate- related stressors, which then dictates how flexible it might ( or not ) be when cultivated in places outside of where it originated, esp if quite different than " origin climate ", so to say..

Jubaea ..or palms like B. armata.. = originate in places where the climate they evolved in is very distinct, and full of stress factors.. Might look a bit fuller / grow a bit faster if provided a little extra water ..outside of when they might get a drink in habitat ..but they can survive w/out that extra help w/out too much stress..

Water B. armata all the time? ..it might not like that ..esp. if being grown somewhere that constantly stays cool ( a stressor it might not handle well ) or in thick, mucky, highly water - retentive soil ( another potential factor that causes stress )

Accumulation of stress = growth rate slows or stops / stress response fungal and pest insect issues move in, and said palm is likely doomed ...unless what is stressing it out is corrected.

Majesty or King palm? Grow next to rivers / in seasonally soaked floodplains, and/ or in areas where moisture is constant so = ..Generally speaking, tolerates constantly moist soil. / can be watered a lot w/out much issue where grown outside of where they came from, though i myself wouldn't water much / at all during the coolest months..

Now picture planting a few majesties / kings in the same " harsh " landscape where you'll find B. armata thriving and growing the " jungle palms " the same exact way as the armata.. Highly doubt the jungle palms would last a year or two..

In the garden, wise gardener would not plant Desert-esque palms like B. armata, next to moisture loving things like Kings, Majesties, and/or Veitchia / Areca < Genus >..

Regarding " a dry rest " ..last word is a very valuable cultivation clue.

Winter / cool season " dry rest " term is often used w/ Orchids.. specifically for how many should be treated during the winter " dormant " season.

Have no doubt the same idea applies to other groups of plants ..inc. palms.. ...and that not providing a rest period during an annual growing cycle can cause stress.

..Think of it as not being able to take a nap / get some sleep when tired.. We all know ( ...or should possess the intelligence to know ) what that does to a body, even if lack of rest takes it's toll slowly.

Only area on the planet where plant growth is constant would be in the true, hot/wet tropics and some islands. Everywhere else? there are distinct growth and rest cycles each year.

Me myself? i mimic climate.. Most frequent watering occurs only during the warm season.. Cooler months? 98% of things only get whatever decides to fall from the sky.. No extra fussing over / wasting water on plants that are ..for the most part.. taking a nap ..Even if their clothes are still on ( AKA : not winter deciduous )

September 16

In the summer I water them thoroughly. They dry out quickly, so I water them again.

September 16

@Silas_Sancona Those are very wise words, for both Plants and animals. Thank you.

September 16

The more water the better if there in the ground, container growing is a bit different, containers you need good drainage to water a lot. Iam not mucking around anymore iam hooking up one inch sprinklers that cover 35 meters for the garden.

September 17

12 hours ago, happypalms said:

The more water the better if there in the ground, container growing is a bit different, containers you need good drainage to water a lot. Iam not mucking around anymore iam hooking up one inch sprinklers that cover 35 meters for the garden.

IMG_3696.mov

I still think you should start a YouTube channel.

September 17

Those sprinklers are great, Richard. You have a beautiful garden. Those palm trees give it a very tropical and exotic feel. Congratulations, friend!

September 17

Soil type, species, ambient temps and humidity all matter. I gave grown palms in the extremes, arizona desert and swampy florida. The former you need clayish soil to hold onto water, the latter high drainage soil is required due to 52" rain a year. Soil ammendment was for improved drainage and soil pH in arizona, and moisture retention and cation exchange in sandy Florida soils. The desert was far more difficult as many palms just dry out due to the hot sun and low humidity. I used drippers only extensively in arizona and the soil had granite rock on top. The granite rock prevents evaporative losses much more than mulch in the desert where holding onto water is important. In florida you want soil to be able to drain due to the sometimes constant daily rains. Silas has given the outlines of species differences and watering. Some species from dry areas don't take constant moisture in cool weather. Their root's chemical defense systems are likely not adapted to defense against fungal attack. Fungus loves cool, wet, low drainage(low oxygen) conditions.

All that said in my high drainage yard I water frequently in the hot season if the rains are not consistent. 3x a week irrigation timer and also manual rainbird irrigation if the skies are cloudless. I have a whole yard irrigation system designed for grass, water hits every square meter not blocked by a palm trunk. Many of my palms have grown roots more than 15' from the trunk. Roots will grow where there is a consistent wet/dry cycle. If you water a small spot, you get a small but perhaps deep root system.

September 18

watering containers is problematic if you dont have rain to wash hardness away. Even moderate water hardness can be a problem as these crystals tend to dehydrate roots, making fertilizer uptake very slow. I found growing palms in pots to be a real problem in california due to the water, somewhat low RH and the total lack of rain in the heat. The more established nurseries use deionized water in California to prevent hardness buildup and to water overhead to prevent drying through excessive transpiration. An alternative is to rinse the pots thoroughly with humic acid solution once every 2 months or so as this chelates and washes out the accumulated hardness. Plants in pots in Arizona desert needed to be in mostly shade, they tend to cook rapidly in the sun. Black pots heat up fast if the sun shines on them, and smaller pots cool down and heat up faster than larger pots or the ground which is slowest in heating/cooling. Because pots have small areas where water can escape, it tends to slow drainage at the bottom of the pot. The drainge is very low in capillary action in pots its mostly gravity when compared to in ground plantings. The enemy here is a dry cycle that is faster in soil near the top than down on the deeper root areas. You can correct this to some extent with more perlite in the bottom than up top in the soil column in the pot and more organic material up top with a mulch topping. If you do that properly, "when to water" is simplified as you can touch the soil(or use a soil moisture probe) in the pot holes at the bottom to see if its still pretty moist. IF not notably moist, its time to water. And most important learn to watch your plants for signs of dehydration, starting with increased drooping of leaves/leaflets, then dry tipped leaflets.

September 18

After reading all comments above it is apparent that to water or not depends on species and where they are growing. It is fascinating to read about different ideas, methods and soil-water management practices. Also it depends on a persons preference for the best look of a palm. Myself and for our Jubaea I like the look at the end of dry season when all the lower and older leaves have fallen, less yellow and brown hanging down with a clean trunk below. I like to see the new top spear growth in palms right after a good rain at end of long dry season.

September 18

That jubaea is a beauty! I had no idea that was a 10a climate up on the CA border. Seems like its doing well, how long has it been in the the ground?

September 18

Something else I'd like to add re: pots. Drainage is key if you water regularly, obviously. But for the people (uhhh I plead the fif) who tend to err on the side of underwatering, it's an issue too. Soil compacts when it dries out. Every once in a while I'll notice one of my pots (or my homemade planters) backing up and I'll just take a chop stick or a bamboo skewer or a screwdriver, razor blade, whatever is handy - and just poke into the drain holes. I like to use lots of chunky mixes for aeration and sometimes the bark or coco chunks clog the drain holes, sometimes soil just compacts because it dries, sometimes the rootball pushes it down, sometimes it's just old. Bamboo skewer or the metal chop stick works best.

Again, totally unrelated to the Jubea but maybe someone will read the title of this topic and it'll prevent some root rot.

September 18

On 9/17/2025 at 12:39 AM, Banana Belt said:

Is that a "Normal" pattern for Mississippi? I am totally unfamiliar with southeast climates so only have knowledge of what I hear or read. In any case when places that do have normal seasonal changes suddenly become abnormal, plants and animals suffer. Extended droughts in the west in last century were abnormal, but today they are becoming normal and our forests are suffering.

I read up on each palm's natural habitat and water accordingly. In most cases for tropicals, water heavily in summer and occasionally in winter but researching their origins is the key for me.

Peachy

September 19

On 9/16/2025 at 2:12 PM, Banana Belt said:

Topic of watering or not watering a Palm is often asked. The best answer probably depends and I have no idea for all Palms. One speicies of Palm Jubaea specifically, my observation suggests that for best health Jubaea prefer several months of dry weather. Jubaea during dry season will conserve water by stop flowering, slowing growth and letting their lower leaves dry up, turn brown and fall off. When rains return at beginning of wet season Jubaea stop drying up their lower leaves, start growing new leaves and will flower.

If the Jubaea are watered during the dry season they never stop growing and will continue flowering. Lower leaves hang on semi green and won't drop off, but overall the plants don't seem to be as healthy nor do they look so good as when allowed to rest during a 4 or 5 months of dry weather.

I don't think there is any correct answer as to Water or Not to Water, but from observation of Jubaea in our location, letting them rest and dry up during a regular seasonal dry period helps overall. This seem logical considering native habitat of Jubaea, and so I wonder if this might also be true for other Palms. What do you think? Perhaps good answers can help growing Palms in climates outside of their native habitat, perhaps not.

This sounds contradictory to me. Plants normally flower when they have excess energy. If they don't, they are missing something. Lower fronds always have to die anyway. Leaves that die faster during the dry season is indicative of water stress.

September 19

8 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

That jubaea is a beauty! I had no idea that was a 10a climate up on the CA border. Seems like its doing well, how long has it been in the the ground?

It sprouted around 1983 and was put in ground in 1988. Oregon southern border is at 42 degrees N, while the 10a zone is next to the ocean which moderates the climate throughout the year. Rarely over 90 and rarely below 32 so more than half the year temperatures are in the 60's regardless of season. Ocean temperatures are generally warmer in winter and cooler in summer due to currents. Summers have strong north winds which create south-southwest currents causing upwelling next to shore. This upwelling water comes from the cold deep benthic water thousands of feet deep which creates fog in a cool marine air next to the coast. In winter winds and currents come mostly from the northwest to southwest which brings lots of rain but warmer seawater which warms the air next to shore preventing frost. Some of our coldest days are in mid summer with cold fog and warm days in mid winter when it sunshine's.

Mark Twain disputed quote "The coldest winter I ever experienced was a summer in San Fransisco". That is just like South Oregon Coast.

September 19

Buy a Jubaea Chilensis masisa. You'll look like King Solomon next to it. With tremendous glory.

September 19

3 hours ago, Slifer00 said:

This sounds contradictory to me. Plants normally flower when they have excess energy. If they don't, they are missing something. Lower fronds always have to die anyway. Leaves that die faster during the dry season is indicative of water stress.

That is true, but many plants need rest as pointed out by @Silas_Sancona above. Orchids need rest, but specifically for palms I don't know. Our two Jubaea just look better to me after a dry season of rest where little growth occurs. I read somewhere and was told by expert in California that the trunk of a Jubaea is like a water tank, where it slows growth and drinks from it's trunk tank during dry season and then refills it during wet season. Can't say I see the trunk shrink in summer but it definitely swells during winter rain.

September 19

It's a huge tank. Whoever told you that is an expert. These palm trees must be lifted with high-tonnage cranes when they're gigantic. In Chile, there's a Belgian man named Michel Lancel who sells Jubaeas chilensis in Europe at very high prices. He ships them in containers. They travel by ship to Europe. They're the most expensive palm trees in the world. He sells them at various prices.

September 19

I'm just adding all types of things I've learned that have nothing to do with Jubea but relate to pots

With my seedlings and sprouts, I rarely deep water them because their roots don't go all the way down yet, so I just heavily mist the top of the planter for them. Put the water where they can reach it. I use a chunky mix with coco chips and pumice for them so it'll hold the water a little, I understand the concept of gravity and everything but it seems to work and then I start "normal" watering once their roots get deeper. Most of them are in clear cups so I can see the root development. This is for stuff I haven't put in the sun yet, so I'm not worried about a 15 watt bulb cooking the roots. And everybody has been thrilled with what I've sold, so there's that. Clear cups under the grow lights then transferring to a 1 or 3g seems to be the way to go for me. Or community pots straight to the sun when I've got an abundance of something.

September 19

58 minutes ago, Banana Belt said:

That is true, but many plants need rest as pointed out by @Silas_Sancona above. Orchids need rest, but specifically for palms I don't know. Our two Jubaea just look better to me after a dry season of rest where little growth occurs. I read somewhere and was told by expert in California that the trunk of a Jubaea is like a water tank, where it slows growth and drinks from it's trunk tank during dry season and then refills it during wet season. Can't say I see the trunk shrink in summer but it definitely swells during winter rain.

Considering its origin / what it grows with in habitat, a water storing trunk capacity would make sense.. to whatever deg. that would apply to it ..and/ or other Palms from arid areas. Makes me wonder if Brahea armata possesses a similar adaptation ..I mean, we've all seen shots from where it grows. As arid as it is there, it would have to possess some sort of adaptation to carry it through drier portions of a year, or any prolonged droughts, otherwise, it probably wouldn't have survived where it grows.

Water / energy storing capacity idea would mirror most cacti and Succulent - type things, Trees like Bursera and / or Pachycormus and some " desert " Ficus sps. ..and a boat load of other stuff native to areas with a well defined ..most of the time.. boom and bust rainfall regime.

Regarding certain plants flowering " out of sync " / when it is pretty dry, rather than responding when moisture is plentiful, one only has to look down into this side of Mexico to find numerous examples of trees ..and other stuff.. that flower during the driest portion of the year, April - late June, rather than flowering during monsoon season / after monsoon season when water is plentiful. Other stuff does, but not the " Fore- summer " stuff. There are even several Orchids that put up w/ the hostile climate down there.

How do they do it? ..Some deg. of energy storing adaptation / capacity for sipping resources during the dry times. Since evolution works it's magic on everything, no way that doesn't include palms ..A few at least.

Here, Cascalote ( Tara cacalaco ) only flowers in the fall / into ..or thru.. winter. Well after any monsoonal rainfall has ended ( if we even get much rain during the summer at all ). Yes, we can see rain in the winter, but that doesn't influence the flowering cycle on these. Not that i've noticed here at least.

Numerous things in CA that flower late spring / summer when it is pretty dry, instead of earlier when it is wetter as well.

Flip it and you'll never find winter stuff like CA Poppies / Desert Verbena and various shrubs / trees that flower during the cooler portion of the year flowering after a really wet summer. They're resting, awaiting winter rains.

September 19

In Chile, this palm has already spread. It has been able to multiply. Now all that's left is the mass propagation of Juania Australis, which hasn't happened yet.

September 21

On 9/19/2025 at 4:43 AM, Banana Belt said:

That is true, but many plants need rest as pointed out by @Silas_Sancona above. Orchids need rest, but specifically for palms I don't know. Our two Jubaea just look better to me after a dry season of rest where little growth occurs. I read somewhere and was told by expert in California that the trunk of a Jubaea is like a water tank, where it slows growth and drinks from it's trunk tank during dry season and then refills it during wet season. Can't say I see the trunk shrink in summer but it definitely swells during winter rain.

I'm glad you mentioned orchids, because it fits in with what I said how plants need to build up enough excess energy to bloom (via photosynthesis). But intentionally delaying this is not necessary. Like what you said about Jubaea, they can store plenty of excess water for dry periods. That doesn't mean a dry period is necessary, rather it is a survival technique used to survive the summer drought. This reminds me of a common misconception that fits right in to your observation: "plants grow faster after being damaged". I'll have to disagree with you on this one.

September 21

1 hour ago, Slifer00 said:

"plants grow faster after being damaged"

I don't think plants grow faster after being damaged, if I ever said that, I was wrong. I believe that if a plant is damaged, say from frost, freezing or burned from fire, they struggle to survive often times die after a long effort to live. But I would not include a hiatus from growing during a normal dry period as damage, in fact many trees that grow continuously with rapid growth can become brittle and weak subject to breaking during storms with high winds. Leylandi Cedar as example grow ridiculously fast especially if given constant water and will thrash apart, break in the middle or fall down completely during a storm, this I know because it happened on our small plot. I will never plant leylandi cedar nor recommend it to anyone ever again.

Of course monocots like palms and dicots like cedar are very different in their structural fabric. Assuming a cedar with slow growth and narrow rings is stronger than a cedar with fast growth and wide rings, it would seem logical that monocot like a Palm with bundles of vertical fibers that goes through shrink and swell dry to wet seasons may also be stronger structurally than if it grew fast and never stopped. Living next to the Pacific Ocean in the roaring 40's latitude, we do get some very strong wind storms during winter when the ground is saturated. I worry very much about our two Jubaea, especially as they grow taller. I want them to be strong structurally and also healthy so that they can stand up to the thrashing winter storms when they happen.

September 21

I think some of my palms would like to be dried out from time to time. Right now I am in a drought. No rain in 22 days and no rain coming for at least 3 or 4 more days. I’ve decided to run the sprinkler once a week to keep my lawn green but I could see the benefit to letting some of my palms dry out since usually I get lots of rain (68” per year average) and it can get swampy.

Some examples from my own garden:

Sylvester date palms. Come from a monsoon climate. Like to cycle wet to dry.

Bismarck Palm. Likes to grow deep roots but will only do so if it’s dry periodically.

CIDP. Arid climate plant. Won’t mind some dry.

Washintonias. Also won’t mind some dry.

On the other hand there’s others that don’t care to be dry or don’t want to be. Sabals, Kings, Majesty, etc.

September 21

The only thing I know is that this summer I'll have to water more. Water and spray. Of course, some more than others.

September 22

On 9/17/2025 at 1:32 PM, JohnAndSancho said:

I still think you should start a YouTube channel.

I think it takes up the time he needs to care for the exotic plants, sow seeds, tend to them, remove the grown plants, then plant them directly in the garden or repot them, and so on—to name just a few of

the tasks involved ...

WELCOME GUEST

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