Test for viable seeds

[Phoenikakias]

What tests do you apply on palm seeds to check their viability? Of course the ultimate test is trying to germinate them, but nobody would like to waste time, effort,  energy, space, substrate etc for seeds, which could be picked out as non viable from the time of collection already.

[Hu Palmeras]

9 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

¿Qué pruebas se realizan en las semillas de palma para comprobar su viabilidad? Claro que la prueba definitiva es intentar germinarlas, pero nadie quiere perder tiempo, esfuerzo, energía, espacio, sustrato, etc., en semillas que podrían considerarse inviables desde el momento de la recolección.

They should be placed in warm water. This way, the seeds hydrate and emerge from their dormant or hibernating state. The seed will absorb moisture from the water, and the embryo will be activated. As a result, the seed is activated and the embryo will begin to breathe more rapidly, resulting in the seed's very life. The seed should never dry out. It should always be moist. RPS of Germany ships seeds that are always alive (breathing in vermiculite), which is why many arrive germinated.

[JohnAndSancho]

Float test, squeeze test, and as a last resort squeeze one open with a pair of pliers or a vise. 

[Tyrone]

Float test is the easiest. If after 48-72 hrs they don’t sink it’s unlikely they will ever germinate. However you never know. If the seed is rare I will seperate the floaters early and sow them away from the sinkers. That way if they are really rotten they won’t ruin the good ones when they ooze rotten goo everywhere. 

[Hu Palmeras]

Of course, before germinating seeds, you have to put them in warm water for three days. If they float, they are not viable seeds. The seeds must sink. This indicates that they are not viable seeds. Always have fresh seeds. There are some seeds that float, for example, the Bismarckia nobilis. The seeds of this palm almost always float because they contain air pockets in the shell that covers or contains the seed (stone), but after a few hours, they sink on their own.

[Phoenikakias]

5 hours ago, Hu Palmeras said:

Of course, before germinating seeds, you have to put them in warm water for three days. If they float, they are not viable seeds. The seeds must sink. This indicates that they are not viable seeds. Always have fresh seeds. There are some seeds that float, for example, the Bismarckia nobilis. The seeds of this palm almost always float because they contain air pockets in the shell that covers or contains the seed (stone), but after a few hours, they sink on their own.

Hyphaena seeds are another case for study. They may float for a several days but eventually they sink too. 

[happypalms]

The trick with testing for viable seeds is, pick em fresh, and only buy newly listed seeds. Also a good supplier who’s on your side. And even then theres no guarantees with what germinates. But as others above have said is correct! 

[Johnny Palmseed]

3 hours ago, happypalms said:

The trick with testing for viable seeds is, pick em fresh, and only buy newly listed seeds. Also a good supplier who’s on your side. And even then theres no guarantees with what germinates. But as others above have said is correct! 

This sums it up right here. Seeds are unpredictable. I have had seeds that sink but never germinate, seeds that float and do germinate, seeds that all germinate but then die off, seeds that never germinate until I throw them on my discard patch, etc… You just have to try them and wait to see what happens.

[Hu Palmeras]

Well, it's true. Sometimes it happens. There can be many causes. One: the embryo never developed or didn't fully mature, or the seeds didn't germinate properly because too much heat or water was provided, or the seed was simply allowed to dry out. In the midst of germination, the seeds should always be moist or wet. This can have many or few causes. Remember to germinate using a heat mat and make sure the temperature is controlled. Sometimes, not being able to germinate a seed has its consequences. And always use fresh seeds.

[happypalms]

12 minutes ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

This sums it up right here. Seeds are unpredictable. I have had seeds that sink but never germinate, seeds that float and do germinate, seeds that all germinate but then die off, seeds that never germinate until I throw them on my discard patch, etc… You just have to try them and wait to see what happens.

Yes you cannot really tell, obviously cutting one in half is a good indication. Some varieties of seeds are difficult to germinate and have a low rate for germination. So if you get ten seeds you may get nothing even though are viable, so you may need 100 seeds to get ten to germinate, it’s a catch 20, dammed if you do dammed if you don’t!

[NatureGirl]

The ‘Only’ way to check a seeds viability, is to cut one or two open and look for the embryo. It will be more opaque than surrounding endosperm. I do this with all the seeds I receive. If the embryo is brown and rotten, then they have either dried out too much or they are too old, and no good.

[Hu Palmeras]

2 hours ago, NatureGirl said:

La única manera de comprobar la viabilidad de una semilla es abrir una o dos y buscar el embrión. Será más opaco que el endospermo circundante. Hago esto con todas las semillas que recibo. Si el embrión está marrón y podrido, significa que se han secado demasiado o que son demasiado viejas y no sirven.

That seed developed very well. A mature and firm embryo.

[Phoenikakias]

On 9/12/2025 at 12:06 PM, Hu Palmeras said:

Well, it's true. Sometimes it happens. There can be many causes. One: the embryo never developed or didn't fully mature, or the seeds didn't germinate properly because too much heat or water was provided, or the seed was simply allowed to dry out. In the midst of germination, the seeds should always be moist or wet. This can have many or few causes. Remember to germinate using a heat mat and make sure the temperature is controlled. Sometimes, not being able to germinate a seed has its consequences. And always use fresh seeds.

 

On 9/12/2025 at 12:14 PM, happypalms said:

Yes you cannot really tell, obviously cutting one in half is a good indication. Some varieties of seeds are difficult to germinate and have a low rate for germination. So if you get ten seeds you may get nothing even though are viable, so you may need 100 seeds to get ten to germinate, it’s a catch 20, dammed if you do dammed if you don’t!

Some times, or even usually, the difficulty in germination does not lie on the freshness or other quality of the seeds but on the very needs of the concerned sp itself. If seeds of a sp need a certain temperature fluctuation during each day and much more for several months, I doubt that my climate can comply with those needs.  For example the range of 20 to 30 C can be realized here only for two months annually namely June and September. That's why it is extremely difficult and rare the germination of Syagrus romanzoffiana or Butia in my area, no matter how fresh the seeds. Instead Brahea seeds turn to weeds readily.

[Phoenikakias]

On 9/12/2025 at 12:14 PM, happypalms said:

Yes you cannot really tell, obviously cutting one in half is a good indication. Some varieties of seeds are difficult to germinate and have a low rate for germination. So if you get ten seeds you may get nothing even though are viable, so you may need 100 seeds to get ten to germinate, it’s a catch 20, dammed if you do dammed if you don’t!

 

On 9/12/2025 at 3:11 PM, NatureGirl said:

The ‘Only’ way to check a seeds viability, is to cut one or two open and look for the embryo. It will be more opaque than surrounding endosperm. I do this with all the seeds I receive. If the embryo is brown and rotten, then they have either dried out too much or they are too old, and no good.

I have come across dissected seeds usually, who do not have a clearly visible embryo or no one could be observed, but they germinated eventually and seedlings developed normally. I can recall easily cases of Phonix seeds, which resulted from cross pollination or of Livistona mariae and Wallichia disticha seeds. However such seeds need more time to germinate and subsequent growth rate of seedlings is initially slow.  Perhaps the underdeveloped embryo should be put down to lack of tropical waether, but I would not discard lightheartedly such seeds.

[Hu Palmeras]

Imagine how 2,000-year-old seeds germinated in Israel. Judean date seeds. I believe the Medjool is a variety of the ancient Judean date palm. These seeds germinated and were found in King Herod's palace and in Mazada. If this comes from God, it also comes from his many wonders.

[Phoenikakias]

3 minutes ago, Hu Palmeras said:

Imagine how 2,000-year-old seeds germinated in Israel. Judean date seeds. I believe the Medjool is a variety of the ancient Judean date palm. These seeds germinated and were found in King Herod's palace and in Mazada. If this comes from God, it also comes from his many wonders.

Scientists had certainly used chemicals to revive the embryo. Those are the 'wonders' of human science and in the end of human intelligence.

[Hu Palmeras]

Judean dates can now be harvested in the Arava (Negev). They have a Medjool sweetness and flavor, but more like honey. Scientific research confirms that Medjool originates from a female date palm from the Middle East and a male Phoenix Theoprasti palm from the eastern Mediterranean. From there, they explain the origin of the Medjool and all North African date varieties.

You're absolutely right, my great Greek friend, but God has his reason too.

[Phoenikakias]

14 minutes ago, Hu Palmeras said:

Judean dates can now be harvested in the Arava (Negev). They have a Medjool sweetness and flavor, but more like honey. Scientific research confirms that Medjool originates from a female date palm from the Middle East and a male Phoenix Theoprasti palm from the eastern Mediterranean. From there, they explain the origin of the Medjool and all North African date varieties.

You're absolutely right, my great Greek friend, but God has his reason too.

FYI I had repeated this cross a couple years ago as experimental archeology (remember KonTiki?). Resulted dates were tastier than Barhi variety.

[Hu Palmeras]

Look, my friend, I congratulate you. I've been trying to get seeds from the Arava region, where they harvest these Judean date palms. But they don't sell them to foreigners. Here in southern Chile, I have date palms. It's an extreme climate, but I protect them, and they're in pots. They're palms originally from the Middle East. They're my most precious treasure.

[Phoenikakias]

You are still able to obtain seeds from my cross through purchase in this link:

http://www.fousdepalmiers.com/medias/files/banque-de-graines-sept-2025-1-.pdf, as long as they are not sold out already. I had donated only 50 seeds.

[Hu Palmeras]

Thanks very much buddy

[Hu Palmeras]

Hace 1 hora, Hu Palmeras dijo:

Muchas gracias amigo

I saw that the page is in French. Or the owner is from France.

[gyuseppe]

5 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

 

Some times, or even usually, the difficulty in germination does not lie on the freshness or other quality of the seeds but on the very needs of the concerned sp itself. If seeds of a sp need a certain temperature fluctuation during each day and much more for several months, I doubt that my climate can comply with those needs.  For example the range of 20 to 30 C can be realized here only for two months annually namely June and September. That's why it is extremely difficult and rare the germination of Syagrus romanzoffiana or Butia in my area, no matter how fresh the seeds. Instead Brahea seeds turn to weeds readily.

Konstantinos, I don't understand. We're neighbors, and shouldn't your climate be like mine?
Here, butia odorata and syagrus romanzoffiana germinates  on their own in my garden from May to October, while the brahea only germinates in September.

[Hu Palmeras]

Imagine me in a cold climate with Medjool date palms. I have to hide them in the winter.

[gyuseppe]

1 minute ago, Hu Palmeras said:

Imagine me in a cold climate with Medjool date palms. I have to hide them in the winter.

Date palms don't thrive in your area? 

[Hu Palmeras]

Guiusepe. Magnificent friend. You've brought the ancient palm tree, the best of the Middle East. It's my great treasure, gentlemen.

[Hu Palmeras]

3 minutes ago, gyuseppe said:

¿Las palmeras datileras no prosperan en tu zona? 

No. For that same reason, I must protect it. There's a seed that came out different and more robust. It's Medjool. I hope it can withstand the rainy climate.

[gyuseppe]

I'm sorry you can't see this magnificent palm tree growing in your garden, symbol of the Catholic religion

[Hu Palmeras]

Yes, I have it. What do you advise? It gave birth to a little offspring.

[gyuseppe]

7 minutes ago, Hu Palmeras said:

Yes, I have it. What do you advise? It gave birth to a little offspring.

I can't advise you, I don't know your climate, very sorry

[Hu Palmeras]

[Hu Palmeras]

I bought those palm trees from the Coachella Valley in California. I bought about 300 seeds. I sold them, gave them away, and kept only two Medjools.

[gyuseppe]

3 minutes ago, Hu Palmeras said:

They are already quite big, but  one of them in good health.

[Hu Palmeras]

Yes, my friend. People look at me with a smile and are surprised that I have date palms. They're surprised because, in a cold climate, I have something strange to most people. I tell them it's from the Middle East, where the blessing comes from. And I smile back.

[gyuseppe]

3 minutes ago, Hu Palmeras said:

Yes, my friend. People look at my smiling face and are surprised that I have date palms. They're surprised because in a cold climate, I have something strange for most people. I tell them it's the Middle East where magic or blessing comes from. And I smile back.

👌

[Hu Palmeras]

Thank you, my great friend, and greetings from Chile. Your joy is also my joy.

[Phoenikakias]

13 hours ago, Hu Palmeras said:

I saw that the page is in French. Or the owner is from France.

Indeed it is a seedbank held and run by the French palm society. However they sell seeds also to non members. If you are ready to accept the risk of seeds being consficated at customs in Chile (that depends enormously on the rigorousness of implementation of various local import restrictions), they will ship seeds also to Chile.

[Hu Palmeras]

I have another French website to buy from, but sometimes shipments don't arrive.

[Phoenikakias]

8 minutes ago, Hu Palmeras said:

I have another French website to buy from, but sometimes shipments don't arrive.

Have you ever made an inquiry about the reason(s) of failure?

[Hu Palmeras]

The person never solved it. It turned out to be from Reunion Island. The person sent the packages without a signature, and they made a stopover in the United States, where all the packages got lost. That's what the French Post Office said. Or perhaps the person didn't know how to send the seed packages. Another French seed site did know how to send them and could receive them without any problems in Chile. But all their seeds were old and never germinated. Only the Bismarckia seeds germinated, which were the only fresh and new seeds they sold. They listed them as new or just arrived on their website.