Quick questions. I know lots of y'all with bigger operations have greenhouses and stuff, but for those of you that don't - does the weed barrier fabric work? I know it degrades over time, but I'd like to think my problems would be contained by that point. 

What kind of edging works the best? I've seen everything from 2" high plastic (zero chance it'd contain Bermuda grass) to 10" corrugated metal (10" seems excessive unless I come into piles of money for compost/mulch/etc). I remember years ago working at Wally World you could buy like 4 miles of the plastic stuff for like $10. 😑 

I'm daydreaming about having a nice yard and a nursery again, but it's like the old Johnny Cash song - One piece at a time. 

Might depend where you live, in HI only the thick, more expensive ones work.  I put down a roll of the cheaper stuff and HI grew right through it and I can no longer see the barrier.  Ive been to nurseries using the thick stuff and it works well.

4 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Quick questions. I know lots of y'all with bigger operations have greenhouses and stuff, but for those of you that don't - does the weed barrier fabric work? I know it degrades over time, but I'd like to think my problems would be contained by that point. 

What kind of edging works the best? I've seen everything from 2" high plastic (zero chance it'd contain Bermuda grass) to 10" corrugated metal (10" seems excessive unless I come into piles of money for compost/mulch/etc). I remember years ago working at Wally World you could buy like 4 miles of the plastic stuff for like $10. 😑 

I'm daydreaming about having a nice yard and a nursery again, but it's like the old Johnny Cash song - One piece at a time. 

Weed barrier = Complete Trash / waste of $$$$$     ..Doesn't work to stop weeds at  all    ..Esp. tough stuff like Bermuda / Torpedo Grass,  and/or stuff like Nut Sedges  ...All of which will punch right through it.. Yes, that includes the thicker stuff too.. 


Also:  As it degrades,  it contributes to micro plastic / forever chemical pollution,  and actually helps to further degrade the soil below it ( Soil ..and all the critters in it,  below the " fabric "  need access to the soil surface.  Soil itself needs to breathe ).

Countless articles on the negatives of using it.. 


As far as edging? ...

To keep Bermuda ( and stuff like Nut Sedge ) out of planting beds,  -any- barrier applied down has to extend -at least-  15" deep.. Barrier that is only 4-8" deep won't do squat. 

 

3 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Weed barrier = Complete Trash / waste of $$$$$     ..Doesn't work to stop weeds at  all    ..Esp. tough stuff like Bermuda / Torpedo Grass,  and/or stuff like Nut Sedges  ...All of which will punch right through it.. Yes, that includes the thicker stuff too.. 


Also:  As it degrades,  it contributes to micro plastic / forever chemical pollution,  and actually helps to further degrade the soil below it ( Soil ..and all the critters in it,  below the " fabric "  need access to the soil surface.  Soil itself needs to breathe ).

Countless articles on the negatives of using it.. 


As far as edging? ...

To keep Bermuda ( and stuff like Nut Sedge ) out of planting beds,  -any- barrier applied down has to extend -at least-  15" deep.. Barrier that is only 4-8" deep won't do squat. 

 

My garden bed looks like absolute feces right now. All the digging I did exposed all the sand in the soil, which is fine - and when I dug all the grass out I made sure I kept digging until I got all of the grass roots. But now there's weeds, and I need to level everything out before I put the rest of the mulch and gravel and soil in. One of the Washies looks great though! 

 

I think it's funny that it took my grandfather so long to get the Bermuda established and now I'm killing myself digging it out. So basically what you're saying is, I need to get this lumber over here, build my boxes and lay them out, dig out all the grass again like I did, then trench around it again just like I did in the front of the house lol. I guess the good news is the Bermuda isn't EVERYWHERE yet, but the bad news is it's probably deeper everywhere else. The mountain I pulled out was literally what had creeped into a flowerbed bordered with bricks and covered in gravel. And it's so dry right now because we haven't had any measurable rain in well over a month. 

2 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

My garden bed looks like absolute feces right now. All the digging I did exposed all the sand in the soil, which is fine - and when I dug all the grass out I made sure I kept digging until I got all of the grass roots. But now there's weeds, and I need to level everything out before I put the rest of the mulch and gravel and soil in. One of the Washies looks great though! 

 

  basically what you're saying is, I need to get this lumber over here, build my boxes and lay them out, dig out all the grass again like I did, then trench around it again just like I did in the front of the house lol. I guess the good news is the Bermuda isn't EVERYWHERE yet, but the bad news is it's probably deeper everywhere else. The mountain I pulled out was literally what had creeped into a flowerbed bordered with bricks and covered in gravel. And it's so dry right now because we haven't had any measurable rain in well over a month. 

Bermuda is one of the toughest grasses out there ( ..Which of course makes getting rid of it even more of a challenge )  

At the old house, which sat vacant for about a year,  previous owner had it out front.. 

While a lot of it had died off in the time the house was empty,  As soon as i started watering and re- working that yard,  thinking i'd removed most of the remaining areas it persisted in,  dormant stuff quickly popped up.  

That's here,  where seeing more than 7-8" of rain  -per year-  is rare..  



..There's another house a few doors down that has a yard of  3/4 -2" rock,  ..with thick plastic laid out below the rock..

House is often vacant ( people who have rented there didn't stay long. One tenant was kicked out )  and no one has applied water to that yard,  ever.. 

Much like Torpedo Grass, because the forward moving tips of the stolons are sharp, Bermuda will pop up through the rock / torn up plastic ( From landscapers trying to remove said patches of Bermuda that poked it way through it over the years ) if we get a couple good downpours. 

After 3 years working to fully eradicate it from planting areas at this house ..I still have a few " new " patches to yank. 

One or two 1/2 -2" long bits of stem w/ a couple nodes attached left behind in the soil / lurking under some hard to reach corner under the sidewalk / driveway  is all it takes for that stuff to return. 

In a couple spots, i managed to pull out 15" lengths of live stolons that had spread under  a driveway that is approx.  5" thick concrete. 


Eliminating Bermuda  =  a lonngg battle..   Nutsedge is almost as bad too. 

Could be worse i suppose..  At least we don't have to deal w/ Torpedo Grass  ...Whose stolons can reach 23ft deep in the soil..  23 ..feet. 

 

48 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Eliminating Bermuda  =  a lonngg battle..   Nutsedge is almost as bad too. 

 

What's funny is it's not everywhere (yet) - there's spots around the house where it's just Bahia. And I don't even know what the grass is on the other side of the driveway or in the field, it's probably Bahia too. Everything I know about grass, I've learned in the past few months trying to kill this stuff. 

We used to live in a trailer on this property, and there was a gravel driveway leading all the way from the road to this house then up to the trailer, and most of it's grown over now.

I know I mentioned this in another thread, but somebody posted on r/nolawns that he rented a skid steer and just dug down 8 inches all over his property to get rid of it. That sounds fun. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

know I mentioned this in another thread, but somebody posted on r/nolawns that he rented a skid steer and just dug down 8 inches all over his property to get rid of it. That sounds fun. 

 

Doing -anything-  with a skid steer ....is fun, lol.. 



Out there, removing soil down to an 8-10" depth would likely remove 95% ( maybe more )  of it since you stay wet enough that a majority of any growth, inc. stolon / rhizome growth,  would hover in the 3-7"  inch depth layer of the soil. 


Here? ..i've had to dig down 12-15" to reach the crowns of some clumps.. 

That said, whomever installed it at this house apparently planted two different types.

One is the " standard " form w/ thicker / wider leaves.. It spreads quite easily / aggressively   ...is the main trouble maker.  

Another form in a different part of the yard has finer / thinner leaves. While still aggressive,  it spreads a bit more slowly / stolons tend to be much thinner / generally stay closer to the surface of the soil,  making it easier to eliminate completely.





 

Just now, Silas_Sancona said:

Doing -anything-  with a skid steer ....is fun, lol.. 



Out there, removing soil down to an 8-10" depth would likely remove 95% ( maybe more )  of it since you stay wet enough that a majority of any growth, inc. stolon / rhizome growth,  would hover in the 3-7"  inch depth layer of the soil. 


 

I think I'd start at 3. I know once you go to 6" deep it's red clay. My granny had my brother plant out a pretty good size tree for her when I was living in Florida, and he says if you dig down a couple feet you'll hit water... He did some research and apparently thousands of years ago there was almost like an inland sea here. I know it's a swamp when we get heavy rain. The ground turns into a sponge.... 

2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Much like Torpedo Grass, because the forward moving tips of the stolons are sharp

You have just finally identified the grass I am having issues with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

29 minutes ago, Chester B said:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.. Considering many say it is next to impossible to eliminate once established,  I'd probably set everything on fire as the back wheels on the packed moving truck roll off the driveway, into the street. 

Don't think we had any in either yard in FL. but heard plenty of horror stories about it from other people.  Same w/ Cogon, Imperata cylindrica,  which is about as bad  ..or worse.

39 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

.. Considering many say it is next to impossible to eliminate once established,  I'd probably set everything on fire as the back wheels on the packed moving truck roll off the driveway, into the street. 

Don't think we had any in either yard in FL. but heard plenty of horror stories about it from other people.  Same w/ Cogon, Imperata cylindrica,  which is about as bad  ..or worse.

I sheet mulched over it and it’s coming through. They have tubers about 6” down so I may have to start removing it the slow way. I imagine if I keep pulling it will run out of resources. It’s in the wet area of my yard with little elsewhere. 

10 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I sheet mulched over it and it’s coming through. They have tubers about 6” down so I may have to start removing it the slow way. I imagine if I keep pulling it will run out of resources. It’s in the wet area of my yard with little elsewhere. 

I absolutely love the cultivator fork. I dunno if you remember the old Bugs Bunny cartoon, where the guy yells Hassan CHOP, but anyway - I swing it in there and put some stank on it and it just tears everything out of the ground, it's beautiful. 

 

Everything except this damn Wisteria, which I just found more of. 

4 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I sheet mulched over it and it’s coming through. They have tubers about 6” down so I may have to start removing it the slow way. I imagine if I keep pulling it will run out of resources. It’s in the wet area of my yard with little elsewhere. 

Torpedo is Rhizomatous rather than forming any tuber- type storage organs..  Nutsedge definitely forms tubers...  ..And yes, lol.. it can punch right through thick mulch / cardboard / fabric.

W/ that stuff,  best  ..and unfortunately really the only way to knock it down / fully eliminate... is hitting it w/ Sedgehammer ...about once every 3 years < ** Per what i remember listed on the instructions on the package ** > 

Pulling it / digging it up just pi**es it off and it resurfaces with a vengeance..

Tried the dig / pull route in a couple beds  before finally giving in and applying S.H. 

..I'll need to apply again since the initial application 2 years ago didn't totally knock all of it out    ..and what escaped death gave me the middle ...   the following spring. 

**** invasive non native garbage, lol..

20 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Torpedo is Rhizomatous rather than forming any tuber- type storage organs..  Nutsedge definitely forms tubers...  ..And yes, lol.. it can punch right through thick mulch / cardboard / fabric.

W/ that stuff,  best  ..and unfortunately really the only way to knock it down / fully eliminate... is hitting it w/ Sedgehammer ...about once every 3 years < ** Per what i remember listed on the instructions on the package ** > 

Pulling it / digging it up just pi**es it off and it resurfaces with a vengeance..

Tried the dig / pull route in a couple beds  before finally giving in and applying S.H. 

..I'll need to apply again since the initial application 2 years ago didn't totally knock all of it out    ..and what escaped death gave me the middle ...   the following spring. 

**** invasive non native garbage, lol..

It's not nutsedge, that is another battle I'm waging.  I'm telling I looked up torpedo grass and its a match, but I find these structures underground too.

1 minute ago, Chester B said:

It's not nutsedge, that is another battle I'm waging.  I'm telling I looked up torpedo grass and its a match, but I find these structures underground too.

Any pictures of them?...  

" Nutlet"  tubers on Nutsedge can extend far out from an individual plant / clump of..  

Anything growing in your lawn that isn't a grass / sedge, that might form tuberous roots?

6 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Any pictures of them?...  

" Nutlet"  tubers on Nutsedge can extend far out from an individual plant / clump of..  

Anything growing in your lawn that isn't a grass / sedge, that might form tuberous roots?

I'll have to take a picture next time I dig one up.

My lawn consists of St. Augustine with Bermuda, Centipede, Nutsedge, a couple of crabgrasses and this Torpedo garbage.  It never browns and won't ever stop growing.

The Torpedo when it appears I pull it and can get 2 foot long sections.  After having pulled out all the long sections now it reappears directly above the Tuber area which I can dig straight down and get.  Generally there are numerous white roots all intertwined.

Just now, Chester B said:

I'll have to take a picture next time I dig one up.

My lawn consists of St. Augustine with Bermuda, Centipede, Nutsedge, a couple of crabgrasses and this Torpedo garbage.  It never browns and won't ever stop growing.

The Torpedo when it appears I pull it and can get 2 foot long sections.  After having pulled out all the long sections now it reappears directly above the Tuber area which I can dig straight down and get.  Generally there are numerous white roots all intertwined.  The tubers are smaller similar to a large human molar and not run but more irregularly shaped with further roots and shoots coming out of them.  The shoots are thick and white and remind me of bean sprouts.

 

Wow. 

 

So I guess the big takeaway here is, in the event of a nuclear war, the only things surviving would be cockroaches, Torpedo and Bermuda grass. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

I'll have to take a picture next time I dig one up.

  Pictures

 

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

 The tubers are smaller similar to a large human molar and not run but more irregularly shaped with further roots and shoots coming out of them.  The shoots are thick and white and remind me of bean sprouts.

Sure sounds like one of the Tuber- producing Flatsedge / Nutsedges.   Purple and Yellow NS. are just the 2 most discussed of the invasive introduced species here in the states.   Tubers sitting below where the Topedo is hanging out is likely coincidence.. 

Tubers are rarely perfectly round and the bigger ones i've dug up def. can be molar sized ..or slightly bigger.  Smaller ones might be no larger than a Pea or Canna Seed. 

Almost always a tangle of roots n' shoots ( that can resemble a spear tip, and are often white-ish in color ) radiating from them too. 

Have dug up tubers sitting 9-12" below the soil surface when ripping out lawn / redoing the irrigation here. 
 

Found a picture of torpedo grass with the tuber.  This exactly what I see.

11 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Found a picture of torpedo grass with the tuber.  This exactly what I see.

From UF / IFAS:

Just now, Silas_Sancona said:

From UF / IFAS:

Yeah the root nodes on mine are larger but I know that is where they are getting their energy from.  If I stay on top of it should win the war of attrition.

29 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Wow. 

 

So I guess the big takeaway here is, in the event of a nuclear war, the only things surviving would be cockroaches, Torpedo and Bermuda grass. 

Shade...   Quite often, it is Bermuda Kryptonite, esp. here. 

Grasses and Cockroaches are far from the only things that have / will survive Nukes / high radiation exposure 

On 8/13/2025 at 2:47 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Could be worse i suppose..  At least we don't have to deal w/ Torpedo Grass  ...Whose stolons can reach 23ft deep in the soil..  23 ..feet. 

I hate this stuff with a burning passion. It has started to creep into my back yard and side yard from my neighbors neglected lawns and it’s basically impossible to get rid of unless I like obliterate everything underground. It blends in somewhat fine with st augustine grass but in planter beds it’s ugly and frustratingly vigorous. Hands down the worst weed grass to exist. 

7 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Yeah the root nodes on mine are larger but I know that is where they are getting their energy from.  If I stay on top of it should win the war of attrition.

From the same reddit post as the picture you found:  



...I'd take a bobcat to such a yard if it were invading myself.. I'd be doing the same to get every piece of Bermuda out if i could here. 🙃 

Eliminate that stuff, once and for all    ..and  get to play around on a tractor again  ..Win / Win 😁 

7 minutes ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

I hate this stuff with a burning passion. It has started to creep into my back yard and side yard from my neighbors neglected lawns and it’s basically impossible to get rid of unless I like obliterate everything underground. It blends in somewhat fine with st augustine grass but in planter beds it’s ugly and frustratingly vigorous. Hands down the worst weed grass to exist. 

  It and Cogon might be tied for the worst of the worst in that part of the world for sure..  Be glad Kikuyu is prohibited there.. 

 

30 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Shade...   Quite often, it is Bermuda Kryptonite, esp. here. 

Grasses and Cockroaches are far from the only things that have / will survive Nukes / high radiation exposure 

Yeah, I've noticed that. 

 

My granny loved her crape myrtles, there's probably 20 in the front yard - and i don't know if she did this, or if squirrels did it (this is long before we had the cat infection keeping squirrels away), but several of them have oaks growing in the middle. You'll never guess what's not growing underneath the oak/crape myrtle canopies. I really want to plop some smaller Sabal varieties in between them. It'll take them the rest of my life to grow into anything significant, but I think that applies to most Sabals grown from seed. The wild Minor gets barely any sun but nobody has any idea how long it's been there either.