Coccothrinax in Northern California

[Jim in Los Altos]

These four Coccothrinax species have done reasonably well for me here in the Bay Area. I’m tempted to try other Coccothrinax species. 
 

C. miraguama

C. miraguama

C. borhidiana 

C. montana

C. barbadensis

C. miraguama

 

[aztropic]

Good news - Bad news...  While it's impressive to see the Coccothrinax species growing in a cooler climate, everything you labeled as miraguama is probably barbadensis (dussiana). All miraguama variants display wider, thicker, frond segments that do not droop. Undersides have a very thick and heavy silver coating. Here's a couple of my miraguama to compare.🤷‍♂️

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

These four Coccothrinax species have done reasonably well for me here in the Bay Area. I’m tempted to try other Coccothrinax species. 

C. miraguama

 

C. miraguama

 

C. borhidiana 

 

C. montana

 

C. barbadensis

 

C. miraguama

 

Even here, so close to Cuba, 1/3rd to 1/2 of the coccothrinax I’ve picked up from reputable sources turned out to be hybrids after a few years.   At least half of the pics, on various sources like palmpedia, are incorrect IDs for coccothrinax.  The nice thing is that many of the hybrids look really cool, and I like them quite a bit.  Miraguama leaflets are so hard and stiff and flat, that they feel like plastic.   

Baby miraguama….

But who cares if you like them.   IDing coccothrinax variants will eventually drive you nuts.   
It’s only for the die hards. 

Hybrids…

Little guy on the ends turned out to be a hybrid…  so much for the matching triple.  

Glad to see them growing well for ya.  They love full sun and heat, even at young ages.  

 

[Jim in Los Altos]

1 hour ago, Looking Glass said:

Even here, so close to Cuba, 1/3rd to 1/2 of the coccothrinax I’ve picked up from reputable sources turned out to be hybrids after a few years.   At least half of the pics, on various sources like palmpedia, are incorrect IDs for coccothrinax.  The nice thing is that many of the hybrids look really cool, and I like them quite a bit.  Miraguama leaflets are so hard and stiff and flat, that they feel like plastic.   

Baby miraguama….

But who cares if you like them.   IDing coccothrinax variants will eventually drive you nuts.   
It’s only for the die hards. 

Hybrids…

Little guy on the ends turned out to be a hybrid…  so much for the matching triple.  

Glad to see them growing well for ya.  They love full sun and heat, even at young ages.  

 

We are heat starved here for the most part and summer nights are even chilly frequently and that’s why I’m surprised Coccothrinax have performed so well here albeit very slowly in growth. 

[Looking Glass]

22 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

We are heat starved here for the most part and summer nights are even chilly frequently and that’s why I’m surprised Coccothrinax have performed so well here albeit very slowly in growth. 

Do you have any very sunny spots left?   I wonder how Argentata would do for you.   It’s cold tolerant, coco-relatively speaking, but very slow in ideal conditions.  

[Jim in Los Altos]

1 hour ago, Looking Glass said:

Do you have any very sunny spots left?   I wonder how Argentata would do for you.   It’s cold tolerant, coco-relatively speaking, but very slow in ideal conditions.  

All my Coccothrinax are shaded most of the day until late afternoon during the summer months but get direct sun in the winter. I do have a couple of full all day sun spots that an argentata could possibly work. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

4 hours ago, aztropic said:

Good news - Bad news...  While it's impressive to see the Coccothrinax species growing in a cooler climate, everything you labeled as miraguama is probably barbadensis (dussiana). All miraguama variants display wider, thicker, frond segments that do not droop. Undersides have a very thick and heavy silver coating. Here's a couple of my miraguama to compare.🤷‍♂️

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

Labeled miraguama at purchase several years ago but are probably hybrids since hybrids seem to be pretty common. My barbadensis that was labeled as such, is the one having the toughest time putting out new leaves.  

[Looking Glass]

14 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

All my Coccothrinax are shaded most of the day until late afternoon during the summer months but get direct sun in the winter. I do have a couple of full all day sun spots that an argentata could possibly work. 

Slow and smallish.  Best against a sunny drive or pathway maybe, where they can’t get shaded out by faster stuff and can get their leaves on some open light.  Very droopy, flowy fronds with silver undersides.  I don’t have one, but I’ve got my eyes open for one or two. 😎  

I see them in The Florida Keys a lot, where they broil in the sand and rocks.  

[aztropic]

Several years ago, there was an unscrupulous middle man palm seller in California that was selling the barbadensis palms as miraguama in an effort to charge more for a more desirable palm. Several people out there bought them, and have learned the truth over the years. Barbadensis is one of the fastest growing Coccothrinax, while miraguama is comparatively pretty slow. Always helps to be familiar with any plant you are going to purchase, rather than relying totally on a sellers word. Reputation does stand for a lot, but even seasoned pros and nurserymen can be fooled. Many young Coccothrinax species look very similar, but once they get to be about 2 feet tall, the characteristics become pretty clear to identify what you really have growing. Funny thing - the one plant labeled as barbadensis actually appears to be something else. I can't even make a guess on that one yet other than it's not a pure barbadensis. 🤷‍♂️

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

 

 

[Jim in Los Altos]

2 hours ago, aztropic said:

Several years ago, there was an unscrupulous middle man palm seller in California that was selling the barbadensis palms as miraguama in an effort to charge more for a more desirable palm. Several people out there bought them, and have learned the truth over the years. Barbadensis is one of the fastest growing Coccothrinax, while miraguama is comparatively pretty slow. Always helps to be familiar with any plant you are going to purchase, rather than relying totally on a sellers word. Reputation does stand for a lot, but even seasoned pros and nurserymen can be fooled. Many young Coccothrinax species look very similar, but once they get to be about 2 feet tall, the characteristics become pretty clear to identify what you really have growing. Funny thing - the one plant labeled as barbadensis actually appears to be something else. I can't even make a guess on that one yet other than it's not a pure barbadensis. 🤷‍♂️

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

 

 

I guess I’ll just have to be happy with whatever I’ve got then. When I planted my first Coccothrinax several years ago as a tiny seedling, I didn’t expect it to make it one year but it did and it flourished but very slowly in this heat starved climate. Incidentally, the one labeled C. miraguama came from Jungle Music Palms in SoCal. A very reputable nursery. 

[happypalms]

I just did a little cocothrinax post then you’re one popped up, here’s a few miraguama seedlings I germinated, I got the seeds from the Coffs Harbour botanical gardens with the curator Rick. 

[aztropic]

4 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

 Incidentally, the one labeled C. miraguama came from Jungle Music Palms in SoCal. A very reputable nursery. 

I once bought a 'foxy lady' cross from jungle music as a small seedling. Once the fronds grew out of the flat plane stage, it became obvious that I had been sold a regular old foxtail palm for a higher price. It happens. 🤷‍♂️

Until the palms start to show their mature characteristics, seedlings can be easily misidentified or misrepresented. Unless you collect the seed yourself and grow it out,you can't always be 100% positive on what you have until it starts showing some consistent, mature, foliage.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[Palms1984]

Jim,

Your Coccothrinax  palms look awesome!  I remember when I joined the Palm Society back in 1984 many members said none of the Coccothrinax species could be grown in California!  This is why I never make definitive statements of what can’t grow here.  I’m sure Palm Society  members back then never thought Borassus, Corypha,  and Licuala could grow in San Diego either, but yet there are some to many here now. 
 

Anyway, I collected and started some seed of what I believe to be Coccothrinax argentata from South Park (Balboa Park) last year.  I was surprised when all four seeds collected germinated within a few months! They’re still small, only developing the second fronds now.  If you are interested, I can mail a few to you.  It was originally meant to be experiment, and I didn’t really think the seeds would be viable.  
 

Here’s the Coccothrinax argentata? trees in South Park off which I collected the seed. Maybe someone can confirm this?  

[aztropic]

2 hours ago, Palms1984 said:

Here’s the Coccothrinax argentata? trees in South Park off which I collected the seed. Maybe someone can confirm this?  

Were the trees labeled with any type of id? They could be argentata, but still hard to say definitively with the pictures provided.🤷‍♂️ Those actually look more like Thrinax radiata to me. Did the seeds you collected have any fruit on them? White fruit would indicate a Thrinax species,while a purple fruit would be applicable to most Coccothrinax species. Were the undersides of the fronds highly silver or just green? What did the fruiting structure look like? A long single spike or a short snarled mess? The more specifics that can be provided, the better the chances of an accurate identification. You may even be able to make a determination of your seedlings by comparing to some of mine. On the left are Coccothrinax argentata seedlings and on the right is Thrinax radiata.As you can see, the seed leaves at this point of argentata are considerably wider than radiata.Hope this helps.👍

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[Caribbean Palms]

2 hours ago, Palms1984 said:

Jim,

Your Coccothrinax  palms look awesome!  I remember when I joined the Palm Society back in 1984 many members said none of the Coccothrinax species could be grown in California!  This is why I never make definitive statements of what can’t grow here.  I’m sure Palm Society  members back then never thought Borassus, Corypha,  and Licuala could grow in San Diego either, but yet there are some to many here now. 
 

Anyway, I collected and started some seed of what I believe to be Coccothrinax argentata from South Park (Balboa Park) last year.  I was surprised when all four seeds collected germinated within a few months! They’re still small, only developing the second fronds now.  If you are interested, I can mail a few to you.  It was originally meant to be experiment, and I didn’t really think the seeds would be viable.  
 

Here’s the Coccothrinax argentata? trees in South Park off which I collected the seed. Maybe someone can confirm this?  

Coccothrinax sp.

Zoom in one the right tree and you can see the petioles are not split or divided where they are attached to the trunk. 

Thrinax and Leucothrinax have divided petioles where they are atached.

[aztropic]

Here is one of my young argentata in a 5 gallon pot. Frond segments are still deeply divided at this stage,although they do thicken up more as the trees mature. (seeds collected from habitat-Big Pine key, Florida)

 

aztropic 

Mesa,Arizona

[Looking Glass]

32 minutes ago, aztropic said:

Were the trees labeled with any type of id? They could be argentata, but still hard to say definitively with the pictures provided.🤷‍♂️ Those actually look more like Thrinax radiata to me. Did the seeds you collected have any fruit on them? White fruit would indicate a Thrinax species,while a purple fruit would be applicable to most Coccothrinax species. Were the undersides of the fronds highly silver or just green? What did the fruiting structure look like? A long single spike or a short snarled mess? The more specifics that can be provided, the better the chances of an accurate identification.👍

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

Mike beat me to it.   I think that the chance that this is argentata is about O% though.   I’m not a purest when it comes to enjoying coccothrinax, but I can’t remember seeing a correctly ID’d non-barbadensis one in California, even from avid palm collectors.  At least 50% of the photos that come up on the internet in general for coccothrinax are incorrect IDs.  Coccothrinax will drive you nuts, and most of the examples out there are not helping.   

Here’s a famous photo of argentata growing in a limestone slab.  

 

[Tracy]

Just to toss another one in the ring, this palm was acquired as Cocothrinax argentea as a small 1 gallon.  I have shared this several times because some features have developed more as it matures.  I have been told it grew too fast to be argentea as well as the abaxial leaf color should be more white.

[Jim in Los Altos]

After reading these comments from you all who are more knowledgeable on the subject of Coccothrinax, I do believe that a couple of mine were mislabeled. Particularly the miraguama which is more likely C. barbadensis. I would like to try a true C. miraguama when I find one for sale as well as other Coccothrinax species since the ones I have do pretty well here and I mostly look for smaller stature palm species now that the BIG ones have pretty much taken over the landscape. 

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

After reading these comments from you all who are more knowledgeable on the subject of Coccothrinax, I do believe that a couple of mine were mislabeled. Particularly the miraguama which is more likely C. barbadensis. I would like to try a true C. miraguama when I find one for sale as well as other Coccothrinax species since the ones I have do pretty well here and I mostly look for smaller stature palm species now that the BIG ones have pretty much taken over the landscape. 

Love it.   I kind of lump Thrinax radiata, Leucothrinax morrisii, Chamaerops humilis, and all of the Coccothrinax into a similar category of palms….   Small palmates.   Great for accents and smaller spots, and to fill out the lower tree canopy regions of the garden.   They all are sun lovers for such small palms.  

Miriguama complex, including the subspecies, hybrids and macroglossa, are my favorite coccos, due to those big stiff leaflets.   Really sets them apart.  

Look for really stiff, plastic-like leaflets, without tip drooping.  The shape varies a little between the subspecies.  

[Tracy]

Jim you would like a Cocothrinax borhidiana or a borhidiana hybrid which has very stiff leaves and whitish abaxial side.  This is my hybrid version,  not sure what the cross is but AzTropic suggested maybe miraguama. 

[Palms1984]

9 hours ago, aztropic said:

Were the trees labeled with any type of id? They could be argentata, but still hard to say definitively with the pictures provided.🤷‍♂️ Those actually look more like Thrinax radiata to me. Did the seeds you collected have any fruit on them? White fruit would indicate a Thrinax species,while a purple fruit would be applicable to most Coccothrinax species. Were the undersides of the fronds highly silver or just green? What did the fruiting structure look like? A long single spike or a short snarled mess? The more specifics that can be provided, the better the chances of an accurate identification. You may even be able to make a determination of your seedlings by comparing to some of mine. On the left are Coccothrinax argentata seedlings and on the right is Thrinax radiata.As you can see, the seed leaves at this point of argentata are considerably wider than radiata.Hope this helps.👍

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

These trees were in Balboa Park (South Park), unfortunately most trees there are not labeled.  It’s highly unlikely Thrinax radiata.  Thrinax radiata to be as large as these palms (30 plus ft)  would most likely be over 100 years old.  I’ve read even in Florida that 30 ft plus Thrinax radiata are very old.  I believe I’ve read that Coccothrinax argentata is the most commonly planted Coccothrinax in California.
 

All four seeds I collected had no fruit, they looked like old seeds.  I was shocked when they all germinated! 

[Palms1984]

9 hours ago, aztropic said:

Were the trees labeled with any type of id? They could be argentata, but still hard to say definitively with the pictures provided.🤷‍♂️ Those actually look more like Thrinax radiata to me. Did the seeds you collected have any fruit on them? White fruit would indicate a Thrinax species,while a purple fruit would be applicable to most Coccothrinax species. Were the undersides of the fronds highly silver or just green? What did the fruiting structure look like? A long single spike or a short snarled mess? The more specifics that can be provided, the better the chances of an accurate identification. You may even be able to make a determination of your seedlings by comparing to some of mine. On the left are Coccothrinax argentata seedlings and on the right is Thrinax radiata.As you can see, the seed leaves at this point of argentata are considerably wider than radiata.Hope this helps.👍

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

These trees were in Balboa Park (South Park), unfortunately most trees there are not labeled.  It’s highly unlikely Thrinax radiata.  Thrinax radiata to be as large as these palms (30 plus ft)  would most likely be over 100 years old.  I’ve read even in Florida that 30 ft plus Thrinax radiata are very old.  I believe I’ve read that Coccothrinax argentata is the most commonly planted Coccothrinax in California.
 

All four seeds I collected had no fruit, they looked like old seeds.  I was shocked when they all germinated! 
 

Looking at Tracy’s Coccothrinax argentea pic, these palms look very similar in coloring. Of course, I’m no expert in Coccothrinax. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

3 hours ago, Tracy said:

Jim you would like a Cocothrinax borhidiana or a borhidiana hybrid which has very stiff leaves and whitish abaxial side.  This is my hybrid version,  not sure what the cross is but AzTropic suggested maybe miraguama. 

Yes Tracy. I have a C. borhidiana in picture number three in the original post.  

[Looking Glass]

3 hours ago, Palms1984 said:

These trees were in Balboa Park (South Park), unfortunately most trees there are not labeled.  It’s highly unlikely Thrinax radiata.  Thrinax radiata to be as large as these palms (30 plus ft)  would most likely be over 100 years old.  I’ve read even in Florida that 30 ft plus Thrinax radiata are very old. 

As Mike pointed out, these aren’t Thrinax due to the non split leaf bases

 

3 hours ago, Palms1984 said:

I believe I’ve read that Coccothrinax argentata is the most commonly planted Coccothrinax in California.

All four seeds I collected had no fruit, they looked like old seeds.  I was shocked when they all germinated! .  

Thrinax radiata is a much faster grower than Coccothrinax argentata.  It is reported on the internet that at Fairchild, down here under ideal conditions, they are somehow growing Argentata at 5 inches per year.

In this report from palm beach, theirs grew about 3.3 feet in 13 years, which is probably a more common growth rate, still under fairly ideal conditions here…..

https://palmbeachpalmcycadsociety.com/palms/documents/CoccothrinaxArgentata.pdf

My neighbor has several Radiata over 20 feet tall, and they are decades old.  I’d love to see a pic of an Argentata over 20 feet.  It would probably be >100 years old.  

I’d guess that Barbadensis is by far the most common cocco in California.  Argentata would be very rare, if there are any there at all.   If anyone has a pic of one from there, I’d be curious.  Jungle Music has a video of an Argentata that looks like a Miraguama hybrid, in my opinion.  

Here is a great video example of a “head hight”  26 year old one in Florida….  

https://www.instagram.com/p/C-u7l6jJ_rL/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again

 

Some coccothrinax are very easy to identify, others are impossible for me to tell apart.  Argentata is fairly easy with its long, flowing head of hair.  
 

 

[Palms1984]

I believe these tall Coccothrinax species in Balboa Park (by the koi pond and Botanical Building) are the same as the ones in South Park.  Unfortunately, it not the most detailed pic. 

[Harry’s Palms]

On 8/4/2025 at 1:14 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

I guess I’ll just have to be happy with whatever I’ve got then. When I planted my first Coccothrinax several years ago as a tiny seedling, I didn’t expect it to make it one year but it did and it flourished but very slowly in this heat starved climate. Incidentally, the one labeled C. miraguama came from Jungle Music Palms in SoCal. A very reputable nursery. 

Jim , I bought my only Cocothrinax from Phil at Jungle Music . He sold it to me at a discount because he said that he could not say for certain which species. It was a small seedling at the time , maybe 1998 or so. He also told me it would struggle here. It hates winter but keeps growing . I have done all I can to keep it looking good but it is just so darned slow . It’s about chest high after 25+ years , I think a Barbadensis from what I’ve been told. Harry

[Harry’s Palms]

23 hours ago, aztropic said:

I once bought a 'foxy lady' cross from jungle music as a small seedling. Once the fronds grew out of the flat plane stage, it became obvious that I had been sold a regular old foxtail palm for a higher price. It happens. 🤷‍♂️

Until the palms start to show their mature characteristics, seedlings can be easily misidentified or misrepresented. Unless you collect the seed yourself and grow it out,you can't always be 100% positive on what you have until it starts showing some consistent, mature, foliage.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

Yes , similar experience with JM , I bought a rare Caryota from them for a hefty price . It was a fairly large juvenile so I planted it out on the side of my house . A year later it started clumping . I called Phil and he verified that his palms got mixed up and it was a C. Mitis . He apologized but offered no remedy. I was kind of bummed. Harry