Sabal hybridization occuring?

[TonyDFW]

My Sabal brazoriensis in Dallas , growing adjacent to Sabal mexicana and Sabal minor were unusually all in bloom at the same time this year. The fruit currently being produced seem to vary dramaticy in size.  Could it be a sign of hybridization ? We had hundreds of honeybees pollinating them.

[JohnAndSancho]

Oooooooh. I'd be interested in seeds if any are available when they're ready. 

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Hope you do get hybrids. I have always wondered if honeybees were doing a better job of hybridizing just because they may be visiting flowers that are more likely to be ready to receive pollen and the pollen being ripe and ready to go at the perfect time.  I don't think they are trying to do it, but certain conditions that they look for in a flower may be the same conditions that are perfect for the most successful pollination

[Fusca]

6 hours ago, TonyDFW said:

My Sabal brazoriensis in Dallas , growing adjacent to Sabal mexicana and Sabal minor were unusually all in bloom at the same time this year. The fruit currently being produced seem to vary dramaticy in size.  Could it be a sign of hybridization ? We had hundreds of honeybees pollinating them.

Tony, is this a shot of your brazoriensis or minor?  I don't think that variable fruit size is an indicator of hybridization but I could be wrong.  I think the fruits and seeds are similar to whatever the mother palm is in a hybrid.  What do you think @Scott W?

[TonyDFW]

brazoriensis
 

[Scott W]

It's certainly a possibility, but I don't have much experience with Sabal seed hybridization or germination.

With my mules fruit size is pretty standard, but seed size itself can vary once the pulp is removed.

Do the three varieties of sabal naturally have different size seed?

It'd certainly be worth the effort to grow them out to find out...

[Fusca]

10 hours ago, Scott W said:

Do the three varieties of sabal naturally have different size seed?

I'm not familiar with brazoriensis seed but mexicana seeds are more than twice the size of minor.

[TonyDFW]

[Allen]

2 hours ago, TonyDFW said:

The botanists that studied the population in Brazoria Cty report the seed being almost the same size as minor and not substantially larger as in your photo.  Per their report

brazoriensis - Fruit globose, 8–10 mm, seeds oblate, 6–8 mm diameter., 

mexicana Fruit 14.8 -  19.3 mm in diameter, 13.8-17.0 mm high. 

minor Fruit 6.4-9.7 mm in diameter, 6.2-8.5 mm high

Sabal domingensis, guatemalensis, miamiensis, pumos, rosei, uresana also have large fruit

[TonyDFW]

I personally visited the site and that is not what I observed. 

[Allen]

55 minutes ago, TonyDFW said:

I personally visited the site and that is not what I observed. 

So you can take a look I will send the discovery doc link with the official botanical description to your messages with a link to the usda database as well.   The seed on my brazoriensis fall into the size roughly the same as S. minor.  

[Fusca]

I wonder about some of the Sabal seeds sizes documented.  I grew Sabal miamiensis from seed that came from PalmatierMeg's palm that were small like minor.  I received Sabal rosei seeds (can't recall the source) that were even smaller than palmetto or minor which makes me think it's something else.  I collected Sabal Riverside seeds in California (and the Deerfield Beach Botanical Garden in Florida) that were larger than mexicana.  Yet several sources say that the Riverside seeds are small.

[Allen]

1 hour ago, Fusca said:

I wonder about some of the Sabal seeds sizes documented.  I grew Sabal miamiensis from seed that came from PalmatierMeg's palm that were small like minor.  I received Sabal rosei seeds (can't recall the source) that were even smaller than palmetto or minor which makes me think it's something else.  I collected Sabal Riverside seeds in California (and the Deerfield Beach Botanical Garden in Florida) that were larger than mexicana.  Yet several sources say that the Riverside seeds are small.

https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/thread/1671318417.html

^^^^ Has some Fruit photos.  

 

[TonyDFW]

The images are not the same perspective. If you compare them , you can see that one image has a zoomed in view of my fingers. The seed comparison was meant for only the seeds in a given image. 

[TonyDFW]

Here are some pix of Sabal mexicana seeds and they are very karg. The largest of all the cold hardy Sabals.