Is my King Palm a gonner?

[Clementyne]

UPDATE

    The arborist took 3 weeks to get here, but in the meantime I've been doing peroxide and copper fungicide every 2 or 3 days. I can definitely hear fizzing.
   They pulled on the middle spear and it came out, and they said its dead and won't survive. We picked out a new palm and had to buy the warranty.  I think that's how they make their money.They don't care if your Palm tree dies.You just have to keep purchasing that warranty.Which covers the cost of the tree. The arborist seemed more interested in trying to get us to let them trim our big trees for $1800, HARD NOOO.!!!
    So here is what it looked like when they showed up last week, and what it looks like now, what do you all think is it a gonner or does it have a chance? Do I keep treating it, is there anything else I can do...
 

Original post below
      https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/89747-king-hybrid-palm-mule-palm/?do=findComment&comment=1219491

[Fusca]

@Clementyne, I think your mule palm will recover but it might need surgery if it doesn't start pushing new growth in the next couple of weeks.  Is Moon installing a new palm and letting you keep this one?

[Jim in Los Altos]

That’s certainly NOT a King palm. Your climate in Arizona would fry a King palm (Archontophoenix) in a matter of days even in the shade. Not sure what you’ve got there though. Possibly a Mule palm. Someone else here I’m sure will identify it. It looks like it’s been “fried” too. 

[Fusca]

7 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

That’s certainly NOT a King palm. Your climate in Arizona would fry a King palm (Archontophoenix) in a matter of days even in the shade. Not sure what you’ve got there though. Possibly a Mule palm. Someone else here I’m sure will identify it. It looks like it’s been “fried” too. 

Jim, I had the same confusion in the original post.  Apparently Moon Valley calls their standard mule "Piru King Palm" (Butia odorata 'King' x Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Piru') and market it as an extra cold hardy hybrid but nothing special about it!

[Merlyn]

I've seen Butia and Mules recover from spear pull, so it is possible.  Hydrogen peroxide and Daconil are good cheap methods with pretty good success rates. 

If the most recent fronds were cut just because they were just torched from the sun then it still has a reasonable chance.  If the most recent fronds died because of physical damage (like being smacked hard during transport or planting) then that can break the palm heart.  I had that happen with a similarly sized Butia where a giant branch fell on it.  The newest 3 or 4 fronds plus the spear all turned brown in about a week and then pulled out.  Mine never recovered.

[Clementyne]

@Merlyn

The 3 newst fronds all died from what I'm assuming is a crown fungil infection. That's why I'm asking if its a gonner or should I keep treating. The arborist just said its dead, but didn't say why.

[Clementyne]

1 hour ago, Fusca said:

@Clementyne, I think your mule palm will recover but it might need surgery if it doesn't start pushing new growth in the next couple of weeks.  Is Moon installing a new palm and letting you keep this one?

@Fusca Surgery? Can you explain please

[Clementyne]

1 hour ago, Fusca said:

@Clementyne, I think your mule palm will recover but it might need surgery if it doesn't start pushing new growth in the next couple of weeks.  Is Moon installing a new palm and letting you keep this one?

Moon said it's dead, and we could remove or they will when they bring the new one. It really bothers me to just trash it if it has a chance. 

[Clementyne]

2 minutes ago, Clementyne said:

Moon said it's dead, and we could remove or they will when they bring the new one. It really bothers me to just trash it if it has a chance. 

We actually don't have any room for it, but I am just curious if it can be saved. I will give it away or donate it, if it happens to pull through, but its been a month of treating and no luck yet. Still wondering what surgery would be on a palm tree.

[Harry’s Palms]

It is really confusing when sellers don’t properly identify palms . Jim is right , there is no way that is a King Palm and to call it that , even saying Piru ( a town east of me) King Palm is misleading at the very least. A reputable nursery should know better IMHO.  As far as the health of the palm , I believe it is a goner . Would I try to save it? Heck yea! Harry

[Clementyne]

Yes when the sellers of our house had to replace a palm because of the contract.I asked moon to replace it with a mule palm and according to them this is their version of a mule palm...smh... For some reason they don't do the queen pindo mules...

[Jim in Los Altos]

29 minutes ago, Clementyne said:

Yes when the sellers of our house had to replace a palm because of the contract.I asked moon to replace it with a mule palm and according to them this is their version of a mule palm...smh... For some reason they don't do the queen pindo mules...

But Moon’s “Piru King” Mule palms ARE Pindo x Queen palms (Butia x Sryagrus). 

[Fusca]

3 hours ago, Clementyne said:

@Fusca Surgery? Can you explain please

After we hit 9°F in 2021 I had to make a horizontal cut on my mule palm using a basic table saw a couple of inches below where I felt tissue in the hole after the spear pulled out.  I had to repeat the cutting until I saw live plant tissue (white in center).  I treated with hydrogen peroxide and Daconil fungicide and kept it dry.  This was in March so it took a little time but it started pushing growth and it looked normal by the end of summer. 

[Clementyne]

2 hours ago, Fusca said:

After we hit 9°F in 2021 I had to make a horizontal cut on my mule palm using a basic table saw a couple of inches below where I felt tissue in the hole after the spear pulled out.  I had to repeat the cutting until I saw live plant tissue (white in center).  I treated with hydrogen peroxide and Daconil fungicide and kept it dry.  This was in March so it took a little time but it started pushing growth and it looked normal by the end of summer. 

Wow!!! How long do you wait before you know its time to trunk cut...

[Clementyne]

4 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

But Moon’s “Piru King” Mule palms ARE Pindo x Queen palms (Butia x Sryagrus). 

Really wow they said they weren't and we do have 1 queen/pindo mule from another nursery, and they don't look the same...but nothing Moon does surprises me.

[Jim in Los Altos]

1 hour ago, Clementyne said:

Really wow they said they weren't and we do have 1 queen/pindo mule from another nursery, and they don't look the same...but nothing Moon does surprises me.

You can line up ten Mule Palms and every one will look a little different from the other. That’s the nature of hybrids. I’ve had several planted for clients here in California. A couple of them look wildly different from more typical ones. 

[Clementyne]

6 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

You can line up ten Mule Palms and every one will look a little different from the other. That’s the nature of hybrids. I’ve had several planted for clients here in California. A couple of them look wildly different from more typical ones. 

That makes sense I wonder why they call it a King Piru, very strange and mules are supposed to be so hardy. I'm hoping the replacement is a healthier tree. 

[Clementyne]

11 hours ago, Fusca said:

After we hit 9°F in 2021 I had to make a horizontal cut on my mule palm using a basic table saw a couple of inches below where I felt tissue in the hole after the spear pulled out.  I had to repeat the cutting until I saw live plant tissue (white in center).  I treated with hydrogen peroxide and Daconil fungicide and kept it dry.  This was in March so it took a little time but it started pushing growth and it looked normal by the end of summer. 

@Fusca Wow that's amazing I've heard of that but this is the first I've seen in a pic. How long do I give it to push a spear before trunk cutting. It's been about a month now.

[Fusca]

3 hours ago, Clementyne said:

@Fusca Wow that's amazing I've heard of that but this is the first I've seen in a pic. How long do I give it to push a spear before trunk cutting. It's been about a month now.

Since the arborist just removed the rotten spears I'd give it a week after treating the hole with hydrogen peroxide and then Daconil or copper fungicide.  Since it's now in a pot it's going to suffer through a "transplant shock" in addition to the fungal issue.  Hopefully it'll still pull through.  Lightly poke a stick into the hole until you hit something and measure the distance with a pen.  After some days do it again and see if the distance changes.  If so it's pushing on its own.

[Clementyne]

@Fusca yes I knew it would go into transplant shock, but I had to do it before they put in the replacement. On a good note we are in a extreme heat wave 118 yesterday and 115 today so its now in the shade and out of the hot sun so maybe that will help. Thank you for all your advice its really appreciated 🏝