Sabal mauritiformis

[happypalms]

They like there water I will say that, super stretched petioles on this one in the shade. One day it will break through the canopy, and no stopping her then!

[aueranna]

24 minutes ago, happypalms said:

They like there water I will say that, super stretched petioles on this one in the shade. One day it will break through the canopy, and no stopping her then!

Oh yeah, she's thirsty and ambitious stretching like a champ in the shade. Once she hits that light, it’s over for the rest. Jungle queen in the making! 

[gyuseppe]

Hello Richard
I also had these, always made from seeds in 2006, unfortunately these also died, from what I understood in the summer they needed a lot of water

[happypalms]

27 minutes ago, gyuseppe said:

Hello Richard
I also had these, always made from seeds in 2006, unfortunately these also died, from what I understood in the summer they needed a lot of water

Not another one you had that died! It takes time to grow a palm garden.

[gyuseppe]

yes, but now I'm fine and I'm starting again, unfortunately I don't work and I don't receive any pension, but many people on this forum haven't forgotten me, I've already received 4 packets of seeds as a gift, I don't want to mention their names, but thanks to everyone who sent me the seeds, again thank you

[happypalms]

9 minutes ago, gyuseppe said:

yes, but now I'm fine and I'm starting again, unfortunately I don't work and I don't receive any pension, but many people on this forum haven't forgotten me, I've already received 4 packets of seeds as a gift, I don't want to mention their names, but thanks to everyone who sent me the seeds, again thank you

Sharing is caring. 🌱

[Harry’s Palms]

I just planted one of these on my hill . I really struggled with where to plant it . In the shade where it would look its best , or in the sun where I could see it without walking down the hill. I ended up putting it in the sun where I could enjoy it from our deck. Harry

I ended up breaking the pot to get it out because it had rooted through the bottom hole and I didn’t want to disturb the roots . Mine had quite a heel on it which I read is fairly normal on these . Also a nice faint silvery patina under the leaf. Harry

[Harry’s Palms]

From what I read , this is one of the fastest growing Sabal species. I did a bit of research on this species and apparently they love a bit of heat but can take fairly cold winters down to mid 20f. Yours , in subtropical climate is very happy . I am hoping “ Marty “ will be happy here , looking forward to watching it grow . Probably not as fast as Livistona Australis but similar , divided or spoked leaf structure and costapalmate frond. Thank you for posting this wonderful palm . Harry

[happypalms]

12 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

I just planted one of these on my hill . I really struggled with where to plant it . In the shade where it would look its best , or in the sun where I could see it without walking down the hill. I ended up putting it in the sun where I could enjoy it from our deck. Harry

I ended up breaking the pot to get it out because it had rooted through the bottom hole and I didn’t want to disturb the roots . Mine had quite a heel on it which I read is fairly normal on these . Also a nice faint silvery patina under the leaf. Harry

Yes I knew you just got one of Dave, they like water and are very tough, I have two in my garden and another two in pots. It small . Those ones iam going to plant in the sun and see how they go in a wet location with plenty of room they get big. Terracotta pots are nuisance to me always breathing and constantly need watering, a big mistake a lot novice growers make is put them in those fancy ones with a lip that goes inward or a curved edge going inwards once a plant gets root bound you can’t get them out unless you destroy the container. 
Richsrd 

[Harry’s Palms]

I was lucky the pot already had a crack . Just a wee tap of the shovel and the “Marty” was free! Thank you for the tip , it will see plenty of water. Harry

[mnorell]

Richard, yours is really beautiful and those gorgeous leaves are really why I love this species...and I also just planted one out here, in the hot, hot desert next to Palm Springs. The one thing I worry about is wind...we are in a wind-sheltered cove here but we get cyclical wind events, mostly in spring, always strong but sometimes they are hurricane-strength (and I used to live in the Florida Keys so I know what I'm talking about!). I'm trying to establish a wind-break around it to help get it through those events.

This is one of those few palms with some hardiness but that has that really tropical feel, and does a good job of mimicking Mauritia and Mauritiella. But just as S. causiarum is a good hardy replacement for Bismarckia, this one to me is so valuable in that it gives that ultra-tropical feel where the "originals" just won't make it. I had a Mauritiella planted in a protected area here last year (another in a pot nearby) and though it grew like a champ through the hot summer, I've never seen a palm cark it so quickly. It was dead around early December (early June for you, Richard)...and I lost both specimens simultaneously so I know it was the cold. I have never seen any palm species die so quickly after a shot of cold (yes, including Cyrtostachys renda, which I grew in Florida and was just fine after upper 40s F). So anyone who doesn't appreciate S. mauritiiformis should remember that this is a really remarkable palm that gives those of us in less-than-tropical climes a chance to feel that ultra-exotic effect. The only other relatively hardy palm that I know of in that vein is Livistona saribus, which has a slightly different, but also a spidery and distinctly primeval effect.

And Harry, I think it's wise that you planted yours in sun...even though it is a "faster" Sabal I think in the Ventura area (and I know your summers are a little warmer in Santa Paula) you might be staring at a very slow fellow for quite a number of years if panted in the shade. Do you know if Pauleen Sullivan or John Tallman ever planted this species in Ventura? I don't remember ever seeing one there. It would be interesting to see the growth rate in the unique climate of the Santa Clara River Valley. Maybe you are the pioneer...

[Harry’s Palms]

@mnorell we shall see . It will see plenty of warmth and not too cold . I haven’t seen one at Pauline’s house and I never made it to John’s house but maybe at one of Sullivans apartment buildings? I will ask Sevan next time I’m over there. Harry

[mnorell]

Yes, maybe if not at the house she might have put one at one of the apartments. I wouldn't be surprised if John planted some at the college. I have some of his cold-hardiness notes from back in the day and will check them over to see if he makes a mention of it.

[Harry’s Palms]

Yes , I went to that green house at the college . He had a sale on a bunch of rare seedlings because the board told him it had to come down. A lot of my seedlings in the early nineties were from him. Karl would save a place in the greenhouse at Green Thumb in Ventura ….cool stuff. 

[happypalms]

2 hours ago, mnorell said:

Richard, yours is really beautiful and those gorgeous leaves are really why I love this species...and I also just planted one out here, in the hot, hot desert next to Palm Springs. The one thing I worry about is wind...we are in a wind-sheltered cove here but we get cyclical wind events, mostly in spring, always strong but sometimes they are hurricane-strength (and I used to live in the Florida Keys so I know what I'm talking about!). I'm trying to establish a wind-break around it to help get it through those events.

This is one of those few palms with some hardiness but that has that really tropical feel, and does a good job of mimicking Mauritia and Mauritiella. But just as S. causiarum is a good hardy replacement for Bismarckia, this one to me is so valuable in that it gives that ultra-tropical feel where the "originals" just won't make it. I had a Mauritiella planted in a protected area here last year (another in a pot nearby) and though it grew like a champ through the hot summer, I've never seen a palm cark it so quickly. It was dead around early December (early June for you, Richard)...and I lost both specimens simultaneously so I know it was the cold. I have never seen any palm species die so quickly after a shot of cold (yes, including Cyrtostachys renda, which I grew in Florida and was just fine after upper 40s F). So anyone who doesn't appreciate S. mauritiiformis should remember that this is a really remarkable palm that gives those of us in less-than-tropical climes a chance to feel that ultra-exotic effect. The only other relatively hardy palm that I know of in that vein is Livistona saribus, which has a slightly different, but also a spidery and distinctly primeval effect.

And Harry, I think it's wise that you planted yours in sun...even though it is a "faster" Sabal I think in the Ventura area (and I know your summers are a little warmer in Santa Paula) you might be staring at a very slow fellow for quite a number of years if panted in the shade. Do you know if Pauleen Sullivan or John Tallman ever planted this species in Ventura? I don't remember ever seeing one there. It would be interesting to see the growth rate in the unique climate of the Santa Clara River Valley. Maybe you are the pioneer...

Tropical subtropical temperate climate it doesn’t matter this palm is a true winner. I would say my one is in a very protected spot out of the wind and sun, dappled light really, but it’s powering along once it got past the tenager stage, my one is really starting to move. I will recommend water water and more water for your one it sounds like it’s in tough environment. Try Calyptrocalyx in the cold weather some species freeze up faster than a Russian in Alaska., black overnight in one snap Calyptrocalyx species. 
But a beautiful species to grow mauritiformis. If you have the room to grow it one superb tropical looking palm!

[sonoranfans]

They love water and hate wind, especially low humidity wind as in our spring season.  I didnt find mine particularly fast  A medium grower it grew at half the rate of sabal causiarum or Bismarckia, a little faster than Sabal Uresana.  Dry spring winds like we get here turn those tropical leaves to crisp leaflet tips.  If you have wind break, not too much direct sun(<5hrs) and water them well they can be flat out gorgeous.  Mine stopped being gorgeous a few years after growing taller than the house and was treated to western sun and those dry winds.

[mnorell]

1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

They love water and hate wind, especially low humidity wind as in our spring season.  I didnt find mine particularly fast  A medium grower it grew at half the rate of sabal causiarum or Bismarckia, a little faster than Sabal Uresana.  Dry spring winds like we get here turn those tropical leaves to crisp leaflet tips.  If you have wind break, not too much direct sun(<5hrs) and water them well they can be flat out gorgeous.  Mine stopped being gorgeous a few years after growing taller than the house and was treated to western sun and those dry winds.

Valuable info to know, Tom. The location I chose for my S. mauritiiformis (still small at just a 3gal) is "semi-protected" by plants that will hopefully grow up to moderate those occasional winds, but I understand that at some point it will likely grow up and into the harshness. I have another couple of 1gal seedlings that I am saving for a much more canopied area where they can spread out and luxuriate. At least, and as you mention, S. mauritiiformis isn't the fastest gun in the west, which in my situation here in the desert has got to be an asset despite the inevitability of exposure as an older adult.

It seems evident that Sabal yapa is the superior choice between the two species for more exposed sites in hot, dry areas, since it has to be a tough customer to grow where it does, in more open areas subject to punishing sun, drought and hurricanes. (Note that the larger part of S. mauritiiformis's disjointed range is south of the hurricane-belt and much of it in rainforest-like environments.) Scott Zona posits in his monograph on Sabal that, while S. mauritiiformis and S. yapa both have bundled leaflet groups, and that this arrangement gives extra structural support to the unusually thin lamina (relative to the large leaf size) on S. mauritiiformis, that in the case of S. yapa, "life in drier habitats selected for medium-thick leaves."  And in his leaf transection images the difference is pretty dramatic.

[aabell]

Good information here, and @mnorell makes a good point about the hurricane belt. If you look on streetview there are tens of thousands of this species to be seen in the vicinity of Monteria, northwestern Colombia. Most are happily growing fully exposed in rolling pastures, and while this region receives a good amount of rain, it also has a distinct dry season.  It is extremely hot and humid year round, and crucially it is not a very windy place. 

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Pyi7qGiHtBBMXJvR6

[mnorell]

Those are beautiful palms, Aaron...and don't we all wish they would grow that way everywhere! Now you're going to get me down a rabbit-hole on Google maps...

[happypalms]

5 hours ago, aabell said:

Good information here, and @mnorell makes a good point about the hurricane belt. If you look on streetview there are tens of thousands of this species to be seen in the vicinity of Monteria, northwestern Colombia. Most are happily growing fully exposed in rolling pastures, and while this region receives a good amount of rain, it also has a distinct dry season.  It is extremely hot and humid year round, and crucially it is not a very windy place. 

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Pyi7qGiHtBBMXJvR6

Couple of great pictures there, we have Livistona Australis in similar settings cleared land for pasture with at least they had the hindsight to leave them standing.