Growin three types of palms in the UK.

May 17

Hi all. New to the forum

I've always liked palms and wanted some. I live in south UK so weather is balmy most of the yeah but can be pretty sunny/warm 20-30 around April to September (with lots of rubbish days in there with cloud and rain).

Anyway, as I know nothing about growing palms and after a little research, obviously buying three different types and at different ages was the sensible thing to do 😆.

Thought I'd show them off here. And any thoughts advice would be welcomed.

Washington robust (largest) (came yesterday)

Trachycarpus wagnerainus (v junior size)

Chamaerops humilis (baby).

Had both of these 3 weeks now.

Questions if I may.. if I keep pot size the same for both the washington and the Trachy, how much more growth/height can I expect to see?

I also have some black spots on the Chamaerops - came like that. Wondering if they will sort themselves out.

Thanks all!

May 17

Welcome to the world of palms . All three of those are pretty cold hardy . The Trachycarpus are especially hardy , although not sure of that particular species , I have seen Windmill palms grow in snow covered areas. There are others from the UK on this forum that may have some tricks to keep them happy . I am in Southern California so cold isn’t that big of a problem here but I just planted a Rhapidophylum ( Needle Palm) and it is supposed to be one of the cold hardiest palms . You may give that a try ( beware of needles around the base!) . Good luck , that Washy looks very nice!
The Washingtonia is going to require a larger pot . It probably won’t gain a lot of height where you are if kept in a pot . The Chamerops is a slow one but gains size quickly in the ground around here. The spots could be from moisture on the fronds . Harry

May 17

9 hours ago, DavePalm said:

Questions if I may.. if I keep pot size the same for both the washington and the Trachy, how much more growth/height can I expect to see?

The Washingtonia will out pace the T. wagnerianus by an unbelievable rate. The Washingtonia looks ready to plant out now, but the Trachycarpus wagnerianus will be years before it even forms a trunk. They're very slow at this stage.

May 17

Welcome to the forum Dave. I don't live in the UK, so I won't claim to be any kind of expert on what you should grow. I have watched quite a few videos from UK gardeners though, so I can tell you what seems to work for those in the UK that I have seen.

Your Trachycarpus wagnerianus is an excellent choice, and should grow relatively trouble free for you. I would simply recommend letting it gain size for a year or two before planting it out in the ground.

The Chamaerops humilis will be almost as easy as the trachycarpus for you. All of the UK growers I have listened to stress the importance of good drainage for your palms, as waterlogged soil in the winter may cause you problems. Of the three palms you have, the Chamaerops will probably appreciate good drainage the most.

The washingtonia will grow very quickly compared to the other two, and it is the only one of the bunch I would be a little worried about in a South UK winter. Unless you are in Cornwall or somewhere else directly along the South coast, or in a very protected spot, it will likely be marginal. Keeping freezing precipitation out of the center of the crown will give you the best chance of keeping it alive once it is planted in the ground.

Good luck with them!

May 17

Thank you all for your feedback. Really helpful and good to hear from palmy-people with experience and knowledge.

My plan is to keep them in/transfer to slightly larger pots. I want to keep the the washington to around 3m tops and not plant so I don't have a 5m palm eventually.

I can also then just about bring indoors into our tallish kitchen over winter, though i must admit - tall palms look awesome so might change plan.

Bit of a niche question but anyone know the sort of root spread a washington develops. We have a new patio so if I was to plant..I'm a little concerned it may spread and lift up paving stones. The border where it could be planted is about 1 meter width between Fence and path/patio so not a massive width.

Ooh one more thing. Almost forgot I bought this at the local garden centre . There were quite a few and all half price. Staff at the time were not sure what they were (weirdly).. I bought one as I thought they were cool... is it a canaries palm fern (something like that?)

May 17

2 hours ago, DavePalm said:

... Ooh one more thing. Almost forgot I bought this at the local garden centre . There were quite a few and all half price. Staff at the time were not sure what they were (weirdly).. I bought one as I thought they were cool... is it a canaries palm fern (something like that?)

Until now, I have never seen a Phoenix canariensis (Canary Island Date Palm) look like that. Very elongated petioles with very widely spaced leaflets. Shade grown in a crowded environment I'd wager.

May 18

2 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Until now, I have never seen a Phoenix canariensis (Canary Island Date Palm) look like that. Very elongated petioles with very widely spaced leaflets. Shade grown in a crowded environment I'd wager.

Yeah I agree with your comments. Here is my potted CIDP today. The fronds are shorter than you would expect, being pot-bounded for years. It has also pushed its trunk up out of the pot, exposing loads of roots, which is a common trait of potted CIDP’s.

@DavePalm Your CIDP has long/normal fronds and a very small root space, as if it has been recently dug up and re-potted. As in during the past year or two. Mine has been in that pot for at least 4 years now, almost 5. It is barely growing, despite a fairly big pot.

May 18

3 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Until now, I have never seen a Phoenix canariensis (Canary Island Date Palm) look like that. Very elongated petioles with very widely spaced leaflets. Shade grown in a crowded environment I'd wager.

That's interesting. Had this about four weeks. Probably explains why I each time I googled what I have, I wasn't getting far / unsure because how it looks.

I do think that pot i used is possibly to small then. Sort of just used a spare one at the time. Well, ill see how it goes/grows and report back!

May 18

1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

Yeah I agree with your comments. Here is my potted CIDP today. The fronds are shorter than you would expect, being pot-bounded for years. It has also pushed its trunk up out of the pot, exposing loads of roots, which is a common trait of potted CIDP’s.

@DavePalm Your CIDP has long/normal fronds and a very small root space, as if it has been recently dug up and re-potted. As in during the past year or two. Mine has been in that pot for at least 4 years now, almost 5. It is barely growing, despite a fairly big pot.

Yours looks great! Wonder if time mine will start to look that. Guess it may take some time for the trunk to develop.

So glad I joined this forum!

May 18

The first two are great for your climate. The Washingtonia only seems to do well in the very south of the country. It will likely grow faster than the other two for now but I wouldn’t expect the kind of growth rates you’d see in a hot climate.

May 18

I may get a fleece. Wife not liking the idea of that washington being in the kitchen.

Anyone know if gathering up the fronds and trying them up to make it all a bit narrower over winter does any permanent harm/disfigure the palm? That may allow it indoors if people can sit at the kitchen table without a massive spiky palm frond bouncing around near the head.

May 18

5 hours ago, Chester B said:

The first two are great for your climate. The Washingtonia only seems to do well in the very south of the country. It will likely grow faster than the other two for now but I wouldn’t expect the kind of growth rates you’d see in a hot climate.

Sheffield in Yorkshire says otherwise. This is a post-winter photo from March. They seem to survive okay in most coastal areas of England and inland regions, even up north, providing they have a decent UHI, which Sheffield provides (pop 600,000).

This one would have been growing there for a good decade or two, and at best it gets some Christmas lights draped around the trunk for protection. The crown is still relatively unblemished after last winter, despite not being wrapped or anything and being quite far up north there.

If the OP is inland from the coast and out in the country with no UHI, a bit like me, then he can forget about it though really. The same with CIDP. You need that coastal influence or a decent UHI.

May 18

5 hours ago, DavePalm said:

I may get a fleece. Wife not liking the idea of that washington being in the kitchen.

Anyone know if gathering up the fronds and trying them up to make it all a bit narrower over winter does any permanent harm/disfigure the palm? That may allow it indoors if people can sit at the kitchen table without a massive spiky palm frond bouncing around near the head.

If you fold the leaves up and tie them together, it doesn't usually cause any permanent damage. Washingtonias grow so quickly though, most growers I have seen will trim most of the fronds off prior to wrapping them in the winter. If you leave just a few fronds over the winter, Washingtonias will regrow their crowns pretty quickly the following season.

May 19

Washingtonia grows to fast to work potted. You can plant it out, away from overhead obstructions. Start wrapping in late autumn. When temps drop to near -5°C, it will defoliate. Then you can cut off all the leaves and finish wrapping.

May 19

Just an FYI on T.wagneriagnus - it seems to hold only about a dozen leaves even when mature. T.fortunei carries a much fuller crown, as many as 60 leaves.

May 19

7 hours ago, SeanK said:

Washingtonia grows to fast to work potted. You can plant it out, away from overhead obstructions. Start wrapping in late autumn. When temps drop to near -5°C, it will defoliate. Then you can cut off all the leaves and finish wrapping.

Can you expand on this please.

I'm 40 miles north of UK south coast.

When you say 'too fast to work potted' if I keep it in that size pot, what will be the issue exactly?

What do I need to do due to its speed of growth and to keep it potted, to allow me to keep about 3m ish? I had had assumed a slightly bigger pot to allow a bit more size but I really don't know how much larger it will grown in the current one.

Cheers!

May 19

6 hours ago, DavePalm said:

...What do I need to do due to its speed of growth and to keep it potted, to allow me to keep about 3m ish?...

You can't control height / growth to keep it a desired size.

May 19

So it will reach 4/5 meters in the pot i currently have? 😲. Thought things are limited by root growth and space to grow.

May 20

7 hours ago, DavePalm said:

So it will reach 4/5 meters in the pot i currently have? 😲. Thought things are limited by root growth and space to grow.

I think you will end up with a palm having only 2 or 3 leaves.

May 20

9 hours ago, DavePalm said:

...Thought things are limited by root growth and space to grow.

At that point, your palm will stress and suffer by an inability to take water and nutrients. It'll be reflected by frond loss and eventually death.

May 20

That robusta won't reach even 3m in that pot. Then, it will start to fall over every time the wind blows. Eventually, it'll starve.

Even a Trachycarpus in that large pot is limited to 2m. I've seen Pigmy dates in pots but they're moved up to larger, 18-in diameter ones.

May 20

Ok thanks all. The take home message is - They will just keep growing!

May 20

On 5/18/2025 at 8:37 PM, SeanK said:

Just an FYI on T.wagneriagnus - it seems to hold only about a dozen leaves even when mature. T.fortunei carries a much fuller crown, as many as 60 leaves.

I have found to be true as well.

May 21

On 5/18/2025 at 4:07 AM, UK_Palms said:

Yeah I agree with your comments. Here is my potted CIDP today. The fronds are shorter than you would expect, being pot-bounded for years. It has also pushed its trunk up out of the pot, exposing loads of roots, which is a common trait of potted CIDP’s.

@DavePalm Your CIDP has long/normal fronds and a very small root space, as if it has been recently dug up and re-potted. As in during the past year or two. Mine has been in that pot for at least 4 years now, almost 5. It is barely growing, despite a fairly big pot.

very nice specimen, your CIDP, Ben 😀

May 21

On 5/17/2025 at 10:51 AM, DavePalm said:

Hi all. New to the forum

I've always liked palms and wanted some. I live in south UK so weather is balmy most of the yeah but can be pretty sunny/warm 20-30 around April to September (with lots of rubbish days in there with cloud and rain).

Anyway, as I know nothing about growing palms and after a little research, obviously buying three different types and at different ages was the sensible thing to do 😆.

Thought I'd show them off here. And any thoughts advice would be welcomed.

Washington robust (largest) (came yesterday)

Trachycarpus wagnerainus (v junior size)

Chamaerops humilis (baby).

Had both of these 3 weeks now.

Questions if I may.. if I keep pot size the same for both the washington and the Trachy, how much more growth/height can I expect to see?

I also have some black spots on the Chamaerops - came like that. Wondering if they will sort themselves out.

Thanks all!

welcome to palm talk
you have very nice palms.
the trachycarpus fortunai wagnerianus is unfortunately very slow to grow, i can only agree with the experiences of the others.
a colleague had one.
i would personally plant out the CIDP, also the Washingtonia robusta. possibly both with protection at the beginning.
Ben UK_Palms is very familiar with the climate and can assess very well whether the two can make it or not.

good luck😀

May 21

17 minutes ago, Mazat said:

welcome to palm talk
you have very nice palms.
the trachycarpus fortunai wagnerianus is unfortunately very slow to grow, i can only agree with the experiences of the others.
a colleague had one.
i would personally plant out the CIDP, also the Washingtonia robusta. possibly both with protection at the beginning.
Ben UK_Palms is very familiar with the climate and can assess very well whether the two can make it or not.

good luck😀

Thank you very much. I will seek to ask Ben UK-palms for his opinions also.

Edit...just searched all the uses with Ben and there doesn't appear to be a Ben UK_palms. Maybe I'm searching wrong.

A fair few Ben's though. I'm assuming it's not Ben G who already posted it this thread?

Edited May 21 by DavePalm
To clarify who a forum member is.

May 21

43 minutes ago, DavePalm said:

Thank you very much. I will seek to ask Ben UK-palms for his opinions also.

Edit...just searched all the uses with Ben and there doesn't appear to be a Ben UK_palms. Maybe I'm searching wrong.

A fair few Ben's though. I'm assuming it's not Ben G who already posted it this thread?

UK_Palms = Ben

👍🤗

May 22

23 hours ago, DavePalm said:

Thank you very much. I will seek to ask Ben UK-palms for his opinions also.

Edit...just searched all the uses with Ben and there doesn't appear to be a Ben UK_palms. Maybe I'm searching wrong.

A fair few Ben's though. I'm assuming it's not Ben G who already posted it this thread?

here is one of our CIDP on the balcony

It had lost almost all its leaves in the winter of 2023/2024, but then recovered well in the summer. it is growing slowly.

our balcony is a jungle 😁

May 22

Thats good to know the leaves grow back with a cold winter. You ever used a fleece? For palms. Wonder how many people just don't bother.

May 22

@DavePalm Can you be a bit more specific about where you are exactly? It will help a hell of a lot in determining what levels of protection you will need for the Washingtonia, if any at all. Like if you are right along the coast, or in central London, it would be fine. No need for any worry or protection. But for all we know you could be 40 miles inland from the coast in a tiny rural village with no UHI, a bit like myself. In which case Washingtonia WILL get knocked out every couple of winters. And no they won't come back.

11 hours ago, DavePalm said:

Thats good to know the leaves grow back with a cold winter. You ever used a fleece? For palms. Wonder how many people just don't bother.

Again, we need to know your location to ascertain whether or not they will survive and come back from a cold winter. In my location, I lost my Filifera after a relatively mild winter (probably more so due to poor drainage) and I lost my Robusta in the 22/23 winter with some protection. I am in southern England like you, but I do not have any UHI and I am nowhere near the sea. These things matter 100%. You are almost certainly wasting your time and money planting that Robusta out if you are in an 8b/9a location like mine at our latitude. Just saying.

May 23

9 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

@DavePalm Can you be a bit more specific about where you are exactly? It will help a hell of a lot in determining what levels of protection you will need for the Washingtonia, if any at all. Like if you are right along the coast, or in central London, it would be fine. No need for any worry or protection. But for all we know you could be 40 miles inland from the coast in a tiny rural village with no UHI, a bit like myself. In which case Washingtonia WILL get knocked out every couple of winters. And no they won't come back.

Again, we need to know your location to ascertain whether or not they will survive and come back from a cold winter. In my location, I lost my Filifera after a relatively mild winter (probably more so due to poor drainage) and I lost my Robusta in the 22/23 winter with some protection. I am in southern England like you, but I do not have any UHI and I am nowhere near the sea. These things matter 100%. You are almost certainly wasting your time and money planting that Robusta out if you are in an 8b/9a location like mine at our latitude. Just saying.

we completely agree with what Ben says. The location is decisive as to whether you need protection and if so, what kind.

Believe us, on the basis of weather data from a station very close to you, it is possible to estimate what protection etc

makes sense. What were your absolute minimum temperatures in winter months in the last 20 years? or more years. Do you have your own weather station?

In answer to your question: we used fleece.

Without knowing the location to some extent, it is difficult to provide concrete help

May 23

Im in Banstead in Surrey to be precise. 40 miles north of Brighton, 148m above sea level 🙂. Little village with lots of green/wooded area.

If you feel i shouldn't plant and people say you can't keep in a pot as it just keeps growing, I'd be interested what the suggestions are? How many years ish will it take to reach say four meters..maybe i have to accept an inevitable death 😐.

Struggling to find historic min temps for Banstead but looks like last year was -1 so around this each year at least Imagine.

Cheers all!

May 23

Nice one Dave try and get yourself a lanonia dasyatha!

May 23

Thanks! *googles Lanonia dasyatha.

May 23

9 hours ago, DavePalm said:

Im in Banstead in Surrey to be precise. 40 miles north of Brighton, 148m above sea level 🙂. Little village with lots of green/wooded area.

If you feel i shouldn't plant and people say you can't keep in a pot as it just keeps growing, I'd be interested what the suggestions are? How many years ish will it take to reach say four meters..maybe i have to accept an inevitable death 😐.

Struggling to find historic min temps for Banstead but looks like last year was -1 so around this each year at least Imagine.

Cheers all!

well, now we have coordinates 🤗👍

found this weather station with about -6 degrees Celsius more times in last 4 years, is this near you ? https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IBANST4/graph/2020-11-30/2020-11-30/monthly

probably your usda Zone is 8b/9a ...

May 23

Yeah around there. What do we think? Touch and go some winters?

2025-06-07T19:42:53Z

On 5/23/2025 at 6:14 PM, Mazat said:

well, now we have coordinates 🤗👍

found this weather station with about -6 degrees Celsius more times in last 4 years, is this near you ? https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IBANST4/graph/2020-11-30/2020-11-30/monthly

probably your usda Zone is 8b/9a ...

I would also agree with that, zone 9a with 8b winters every few years.

2025-06-07T23:07:54Z

On 5/23/2025 at 6:55 PM, DavePalm said:

Yeah around there. What do we think? Touch and go some winters?

Banstead is on the outskirts of the southwest London UHI. That area would have seen about -7C / 19F during the December 2022 freeze event. Areas with no UHI further afield would have saw -8C or -9C, like I experienced here.

These were the street level minimums for built up urban areas. In rural areas, like open fields, you can take another 1-2C off these figures almost. So the open parks in central London would have saw at least -4C, whereas sheltered back yards only -2C.

These were the approximate minimums for the southeast coastal area during the December 2022 freeze event. Basically anywhere that saw -6C or lower has no surviving CIDP or Washingtonia. I think I had -8.7C here on one night and the winter in general was also rather cold and crappy, with a cool-wet spring too, which destroyed the growing point on my biggest Chamaerops even.

I suspect during the brutal 2010/11 freeze the OP would have seen -8C or -9C even in Banstead. That would have wiped out all but the very toughest CIDP and Washies, assuming they were well established and had decent size already maybe. During the December 2022 freeze he would have saw about -7C there. Both were 'palm killer' events away from London's UHI and the coastal areas.\

3 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

I would also agree with that, zone 9a with 8b winters every few years.

He is probably 9a overall, with an 8b winter every 3-4 years (2010, 2018, 2022 etc).

WELCOME GUEST

Growin three types of palms in the UK.

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