Some mystery Costa Rican palms

[Jeff in St Pete]

I recently went back to visit my friend who owns a spice farm outside of town.  He asked me to come over and help him identify some palms on his property.  He has a section of his property that has never been planted although he did have some brush removed there and did some general cleanup.  He calls this area his "Park".  He said there were some palms there that have him stumped.  He would not allow his workers to cut down any of these palms even though they were dying to cut down the spiny climbing palms!  I tried, but I couldn't get any pictures of the climbing palms to turn out.

Upon arriving, the first stop on the way down to his park was to look at his Zamia which is dropping seeds right now.  He said he has tried many many times to collect seed and germinate them in pots but not one has ever germinated that way.  He said the only way to get more plants is to let the seeds drop and then dig up the seedlings (he put the fence up to keep the animals from eating them).  

He rescued this plant from another location in the country that was being developed and brought it to his farm and planted it.  He said that was about 10 years ago.  He had no idea what this plant was, he just brought it home and planted it.  It now has about a foot of trunk.  

[Jeff in St Pete]

On the way down to his park, the path was lined with crotons, Ti plants and heliconias.

[Jeff in St Pete]

Here are some FL Royals he planted about 30 years ago.

[Jeff in St Pete]

We arrived at his park and here is the first mystery palm

Spines under the leaves

Another view

[Jeff in St Pete]

The second palm.  This one was hard to get a good shot of.

[Jeff in St Pete]

#3 mystery palm.  There were two of them next to each other.  These palms were unarmed.  

[Jeff in St Pete]

Some more shots of mystery palm #3.  New frond is pinnate.

[Jeff in St Pete]

Mystery Palm #4.  My guess was C oblongata since it looked like the one I grew in Tampa.  Although mine was not this tall!  This one was at least 10ft (3 meters) tall.

If you look closely in the center of the picture, you can see the long skinny trunk.  Underneath is an African Oil Palm volunteer from the nearby palm plantations.  They are a pest and pop up everywhere.

[Jeff in St Pete]

Mystery palm #5

[Jeff in St Pete]

More of mystery palm #5.

Close-up of the trunk detal.  This clump was around 8 feet tall (2.5 meters)

[Jeff in St Pete]

On the way back up the hill to the house, we stopped to look at these palms.  He collected the seed in Quepos in front of a hotel and germinated them.  He must have at least 20 or more clumps of these palms.  This is probably not a native palm but it is Mystery Palm #6.  They like to use the fronds in their flower arranging business.

[Jeff in St Pete]

More of mystery palm #6

crownshaft

seeds

[Jeff in St Pete]

Before I left, I had to get a couple pics of his massive C renda.  It's the largest clump I have ever seen in person.

[Jeff in St Pete]

Before I left, he gave me these!

Zamia

A catechu.  Interesting story, his original betel nut palm came from a seed purchased by his friend at Harrod's in London.  He said it was the only palm tree in Costa Rica that came from Harrod's!

[Jeff in St Pete]

Well that's all the pics of the mystery palms.  If anyone can identify any of these, we would appreciate it!  Thanks!

[deezpalms]

Hey Jeff, #2 looks like it could be Plectocomia himalyana.

[TikiRick]

Holy crap! What a sealing wax!

[cfkingfish]

Jeff, some really interesting stuff:

The first looks like an Astrocaryum sp, it is in a lot of shade.

The second lower growing pinnate spiny guy looks like a Bactris sp.

#5 Looks like a Geonoma sp.

[Jeff in St Pete]

Thanks for the responses!  Anyone else have any ideas what the others could be?  So far the mystery palms could be:

1.  Astrocaryum sp.

2.  Bactris sp. OR Plectocomia himalayana

3.  

4.

5. Geonoma sp.

6.

[Jason in Orlando]

Could 6 be an Areca sp.?

[Jeff in St Pete]

Thanks Jason!  I checked out PACSOA and their picture of Areca triandra seeds looks just like the seeds in my picture, plus the trunks look the same.    

6.  Areca triandra

[cfkingfish]

#3 Could be a Pholidostachys sp., but couldn't tell you which one.

#4 Looks to be C. oblongata.

[Jeff Searle]

Jeff,

   Your buddy has some nice palms growing on his property. Obviously, not all of these palms are native to Costa Rica. Thats where the problems come in.   The first one, the cycad is Zamia fairchildiana,named after David Fairchild.The first mystery palm with the spines is probably either Astrocaryum alatum, or A. standleyanum. Both native to CR.#2 is maybe some sort of Bactris specie. #3 is Ida know?  #4 is for sure a Chamaedorea, but C. oblongata is not native to CR. So ask your friend where it came from. It might be C. pinnatifrons or maybe C. tepejilote. Hard to say. #5 looks like it might be a Geonoma, standing there in person would make it alot easier to identify. And the last one does look like Areca triandra, another import. These are growing down in the Wilson Botanical Garden, near the Osa Peninsula.

Jeff

[Jeff in St Pete]

(Jeff Searle @ Dec. 09 2007,23:15)

QUOTE

Jeff,

   Your buddy has some nice palms growing on his property. Obviously, not all of these palms are native to Costa Rica. Thats where the problems come in.   The first one, the cycad is Zamia fairchildiana,named after David Fairchild.The first mystery palm with the spines is probably either Astrocaryum alatum, or A. standleyanum. Both native to CR.#2 is maybe some sort of Bactris specie. #3 is Ida know?  #4 is for sure a Chamaedorea, but C. oblongata is not native to CR. So ask your friend where it came from. It might be C. pinnatifrons or maybe C. tepejilote. Hard to say. #5 looks like it might be a Geonoma, standing there in person would make it alot easier to identify. And the last one does look like Areca triandra, another import. These are growing down in the Wilson Botanical Garden, near the Osa Peninsula.

Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks so much for responding!  I was hoping you would.   My buddy will be happy to hear he has Zamia fairchildiana and I'm happy to know that my little one is too!  

We assumed that the palms in this area of his property (mystery palms 1-5) were native because this land was not used for anything and was just recently accessed due to a path that was made through there.  He has had this land for at least 33 years.  But I guess other people around the area could be growing non native palms and seeds could be dispersed through birds or animals.  The Elaeis guineensis sure get around!  Could number 2 be Bactris gracilior?  Regarding the Chamaedorea, he doesn't know where that came from.  It's very tall and appears to have been there for a long time unless they are very fast growing.  The only palms he has personally planted in this area were a few C elegans that were not doing well in a pot so he recently stuck a few in the ground.  I searched on the internet and I think it most resembles C pinnatifrons, so that is what I will go with.  I always thought that C tepejilote had longer fronds but that could be my own misconception.  I plan on going to Wilson after the Biennial.  I can't wait to see that place.  I've heard Wilson has the largest collection of palms in Costa Rica.          

The mystery palms now are:

1.  Astrocaryum alatum or A. standleyanum

2.  Bactris sp

3.  Could be a Pholidostachys sp

4.  Chamaedorea pinnatifrons

5.  Geonoma sp

6.  Areca triandra

Thanks for all the help so far!

[paulgila]

can't do any better than that with the IDs but thanks for the nice pix!

[Exotic Life]

Hi Jeff,

Great pics! That palm with the red truncs are amazing

Robbin

[Jeff Searle]

Jeff,

    I'll meet you down at the biennial. And you will love the Wilson Botanical Garden. There's hundreds of very large palms in the garden, a beautiful bromeliad collection, and lots of tropicals growing as well. I have been there twice and would go back anytime!

Jeff

[Jeff in St Pete]

Thanks Paul and Robbin

Jeff, I look forward to meeting you at the Biennial!

[Jeff in St Pete]

One last question for anyone who can confirm this.  I forgot to post these the first time around.  My friend has this palm which he said was sold to him as a Raphia palm and he said it came from a good source.  I told him it looked more like a Queen palm to me.  We've been going back and forth over this for a while now.  I don't think I have ever seen a Raphia palm up close before.  Do they look that much like a Queen palm?  Or is this a Queen?  He mentioned the upright habit of the fronds, but I have seen many Queen palms do that too.  What do you think?  Due to where it was growing (near a steep hillside), it was hard to get a picture of the entire palm.  

[Jason in Orlando]

That's so a queen palm...

[Jeff in St Pete]

Thanks Jason, I just wanted to hear it from one other person!  The first time I saw it, I told him I was 99% sure that it was a Queen Palm.  The next time I saw him, he said he had spoken to someone and he was "mostly sure" it was a Raphia, so I questioned my judgement.

[SubTropicRay]

I agree with the C. pinnatifrons ID.  It's a faster and taller grower than C. oblongata.

[Jeff in St Pete]

Thanks Ray!  I'm going to send the list of names to him today along with pictures of each palm.  I'm glad he didn't let his employees touch any these palms.  The locals can be dangerous around here with their machetes!!  No individual select pruning ever seems to be done here, they just hack everything with their machetes and you end up with a plant full of leaves that are hacked in half!

[Moose]

Mystery palm #2 is most likely Bactris hondurensis.

[amazon exotics]

the cycad in first pic looks like ceratozamia mexicana