Somewhat silly question: Could we create a hybrid of all Phoenix species??

[TropicsEnjoyer]

Pretty simple question I randomly started considering, what if someone found a way to cross every single species of a small genus that readily hybridizes, such as Phoenix. Would this even be possible in a lifetime? And if so, would such a creation look completely unique, or closely resemble an already existing, simpler hybrid in the end. 

My idea would be to either start out with pure species and add one to the previous hybrid, though that could take years for each to mature id think. Ex: ((((Dacty x Sylv)xRoeb)xCanary)xRec)xEtc..)

Or , combine already existing hybrids, which would be quicker and easier? Ex: (Dacty x sylv) x (Roeb x Canary) x (etc, etc)

Looking forward to hearing opinions

[ahosey01]

  On 3/4/2025 at 2:48 AM, TropicsEnjoyer said:

Pretty simple question I randomly started considering, what if someone found a way to cross every single species of a small genus that readily hybridizes, such as Phoenix. Would this even be possible in a lifetime? And if so, would such a creation look completely unique, or closely resemble an already existing, simpler hybrid in the end. 

My idea would be to either start out with pure species and add one to the previous hybrid, though that could take years for each to mature id think. Ex: ((((Dacty x Sylv)xRoeb)xCanary)xRec)xEtc..)

Or , combine already existing hybrids, which would be quicker and easier? Ex: (Dacty x sylv) x (Roeb x Canary) x (etc, etc)

Looking forward to hearing opinions

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As promiscuous as these are it probably already exists lol

[tim_brissy_13]

I’m not sure whether it would be possible with Phoenix, but im confident it already exists within other smaller genera. 
 

Off the top of my head, there exists Howea belmoreana x forsteriana (or vice Versa) and there’s strong suspicion that Cyphophoenix elegans x nucele exists (assuming C alba and fulcita return to Veillonia and Campecarpus as has been suggested). I’d assume Adonidia merrillii x dransfieldii would be possible given A merrillii has been known to hybridise intergenerically. 
 

In any case, I’m not sure going down this path for any genus is likely to yield anything interesting, but there could be so much variability you’d never know. I’d guess in general you’d just have something that looks somewhere intermediate to all parents involved. For Phoenix it would take lifetimes of effort and would be difficult given that rarity of some species like P andamanensis. I’d suggest it wouldn’t be wise to dilute something like this in a hybrid. 

[gyuseppe]

I made these 3 hybrids
roebelenii x reclinata
roebelenii x dactylifera
roebelenii x rupicola, few seeds
they are completely different from the parents

[gyuseppe]

 

[gyuseppe]

 

[happypalms]

Ok I get that growers want to create hybrid palms for various reasons like ornamental or cold hardiness. The work involved in such a project I respect the horticultural skill and knowledge and time that is put into by a breeder be it for financial gain or just as n mentioned above. This is where I will say it’s not good for the future generation of palms in a whole. Imagine if you hybridised a palm that was on the verge of extinction. Not a good outcome even Einstein would work out that it’s not good thing in a blink of an eye. What are we leaving for future generations to have hybrid plants. Look at GMO crops of corn when they lose that to some disease it can happen,  then the future of humanity is at jeopardy for a food source simply because it was money oriented. Hybrid plants have a place in Mother Nature that occur naturally it’s not up to us to create some lab orientated plant. Please for the love of the planet leave Mother Nature alone for the future of all humankind!

[gyuseppe]

  On 3/4/2025 at 8:09 AM, happypalms said:

Ok I get that growers want to create hybrid palms for various reasons like ornamental or cold hardiness. The work involved in such a project I respect the horticultural skill and knowledge and time that is put into by a breeder be it for financial gain or just as n mentioned above. This is where I will say it’s not good for the future generation of palms in a whole. Imagine if you hybridised a palm that was on the verge of extinction. Not a good outcome even Einstein would work out that it’s not good thing in a blink of an eye. What are we leaving for future generations to have hybrid plants. Look at GMO crops of corn when they lose that to some disease it can happen,  then the future of humanity is at jeopardy for a food source simply because it was money oriented. Hybrid plants have a place in Mother Nature that occur naturally it’s not up to us to create some lab orientated plant. Please for the love of the planet leave Mother Nature alone for the future of all humankind!

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Richard I did it for the passion of plants, not for money, I'm jealous of my hybrids, they even offered me money, I refused, I want to keep them, I like them so much, but be careful not all hybrids succeed many times I have had failures

[TropicsEnjoyer]

  On 3/4/2025 at 3:57 AM, tim_brissy_13 said:

take lifetimes of effort

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that’s exactly what i thought 

[Mazat]

  On 3/4/2025 at 1:39 PM, gyuseppe said:

Richard, ich habe es aus Leidenschaft für Pflanzen getan, nicht wegen des Geldes. Ich bin neidisch auf meine Hybriden, sie haben mir sogar Geld angeboten, ich habe abgelehnt. Ich möchte sie behalten, ich mag sie so sehr, aber seien Sie vorsichtig, nicht alle Hybriden sind erfolgreich, oft hatte ich Misserfolge

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🤗👍🌴

[Phoenikakias]

  On 3/4/2025 at 8:09 AM, happypalms said:

Ok I get that growers want to create hybrid palms for various reasons like ornamental or cold hardiness. The work involved in such a project I respect the horticultural skill and knowledge and time that is put into by a breeder be it for financial gain or just as n mentioned above. This is where I will say it’s not good for the future generation of palms in a whole. Imagine if you hybridised a palm that was on the verge of extinction. Not a good outcome even Einstein would work out that it’s not good thing in a blink of an eye. What are we leaving for future generations to have hybrid plants. Look at GMO crops of corn when they lose that to some disease it can happen,  then the future of humanity is at jeopardy for a food source simply because it was money oriented. Hybrid plants have a place in Mother Nature that occur naturally it’s not up to us to create some lab orientated plant. Please for the love of the planet leave Mother Nature alone for the future of all humankind!

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Hybridism is many times a natural process of evolution together with mutation. Almost all crops are the result of hybridization with local related wild spp. It is an illusion to believe, that wheat or rice cultivated in northern Europe and Korea respectively are the same with the originally domesticated plants in the fertile crescent and southern China.  We humans are also a result of hybridization.

How about a Phoenix hybrid, which is resistant or less attractive to weevils? Yes you have guessed correctly, Phoenix hybrids up to now are not preferred by rpw. In a recent congress in Philippines, it was discussed the possibility of dactylifera x theophrasti hybrids as more resistant to rpw.