Phoenix theophrastii

[NCpalmqueen]

I grew these two P.theophrastii from seed.  They've been in the ground here in NC for 3 years.  The top leaves are near 6' now.  I am debating on whether to wrap them up for the winter like I usually do.  They now have a nice girthy 6" tall trunk on them, so I'm hoping they are getting hardier.  

Anyone growing any mature specimens and care to share any photos or experiences?  

[PalmGuyWC]

Cindy,

I once had a P theophrastii in a 10 gal. size, but mine was all green, not silver like yours. Mine was a tangle of thorns and had several suckers, and it was viscious to handle. I finally decided not to keep it because of the danger of someone getting stabbed, and I had no vacent corner of the yard to plant it.

A few years before that I had a P. dactilifera which was growing to close to a garden path and I was afraid someone would put out an eye, so I had it removed. The tips of the fronds are stiff and are like daggers and can penitrate skin....and eyes. Phoenix can get out of control very fast if you don't remove the suckers at an early age, and they become almost impossible to handle.

As far as being cold hardy, P. theophrastii should be one of the hardiest of the Phoenix, but I would watch that cute little palm closely because it can become a monster before you know it.

Dick

[Kris]

Dear Cindy  

i have 3 small palm saplings of the palm in discussion,this has come to me from italy(Maximus).they came to me as small saplings with its roots well packed in cocopeat & perilite.so all i had to do is repot.they are all growing well in pots but my colour looks far closer to CIDP's leaf colour than your palm seen in our stills.

i will try to post those stills when time permit.but even my opnion is that all phoenix are to be trimmed to keep this

giant from hurting us through its spines..

love,

Kris  

[NCpalmqueen]

Hi Dick

Thanks for the warning!  Actually, if these plants turn into monsters here in Raleigh, NC, then I will be one very happy camper!    They have not suckered at all.  They seem to be happy with single trunks at the moment.   I can put up with the deadly spines if I can manage to keep them alive here in z8.  Extreme gardening has its risks.   :laugh:

Kris

Your collection of Phoenix must be awesome.  I wish I could grow more than the theophrastii here, but not.  

Pls show your collection!

[Matt N- Dallas]

Hi Cindy,

I'm growing one here in Dallas, TX that I started from seed.  It's about 2/3 the size of your two and has done wonderfully.  The lowest temps it has experienced is 18* so far.  It looks to be the same color as your's.  Your palms look great!

[edbrown_3]

Matt,

I have about 6 of them planted around the yard. Fccj has a few more. Mine I got the seeds from  a Cretan monestary a number of years ago. These are all from one batch of seeds 2 are very carnariensis like 1 is like a silver dactylifera and the other 2 are clumping and very green. I havent tested them past 21F here but P. dactylifera, carinensis and sylvestris all survived single digots here in JAX.

[edbrown_3]

another one

[edbrown_3]

one morfe

[edbrown_3]

a other one

[edbrown_3]

lastly

[Brian_K]

I have really little experience growing palms, but I managed to germinate a slew of dactylifera seeds last winter.  Just a few were brought in and the rest planted outside to see when they cark.  I am pleased to report that these seedlings have survived low 20's and frost along with Livistona boninensis, lanuginosa, and nitida.

[iamjv]

I had bought a seedling labeled as Theophrastii but believe it really is a sylvestris or sylvestris hybrid as it hasn't suckered.   It looks very much like yours Cindy.  It grows very quickly and has seen temps as low as 17F and only had a little frost damage on the tips of the fronds.  Pics can be seen at the link in my signature block, go to my yard album.  Jv

[NCpalmqueen]

Wow Ed...great shots of some mature theo's.  Have they ever been through a low teens or single digit event?   I couldn't tell from the photos, but are they suckering?

Thanks for posting the photos!

[Exotic Life]

NCPalmqueen, that's a good looking one!

I've got also some seedlings, if the will be bigger i'm going to try them in the ground.

Robbin

[Palmtrader]

I export an increasing number of specimen theo's from Spain to the UK each year where they are proving to be the most cold tolertant of the Phoenix genus. I am also growing large numbers of smaller ones  and find they take some years to sucker and quite often some years before they develop their unique blue colour if at all.

Along with Trithrinax they are possibly the most dangerous palms on the planet.

[edbrown_3]

Cindy,

They havent seen below 21F. They are suckering (several of them at least)-- I suspect they could tolerate the teens like P. dactylifera but just dont have any experience. They are very variable even within a single seed batch.

Good luck !

Ed

[AlexnAtlanta]

Cindy, yours is a beauty.  No phoenix is going to survive long term without protection in Atlanta, but I was led to believe that Theophrasti is the hardiest to cold.  That wasn't my experience.  Admittedly, mine were very small but they were beyong the strap leaf stage.  I lost all three last winter in the three back to back 18 degree nights.  On the other hand, I have a Canary Island Date Palm that is getting HUGE, a lovely Sylvestris that is doing just fine, several Roebellinis (one of which I cover and the others seem to bounce back from defoliation), one P. Rupicola and the stars of the show -- Phoenix Reclinata (that I have to believe have some CIDP in their bloodline given their vigor and cold-hardiness).  Kind of ironic that the only casualties to the cold were the Theophrasti.  Still, I might try again, because I love the bluish gray color.  The real secret for growing Phoenix in marginal areas of the Southeast is to plant them in very, very sharply draining sandy soil, and with all our clay that means a lot of work amending the soil, but the results are worth it.  My CIDP was planted on top of a mound of about 600 pounds of river sand and the tree is becoming massive after only 4 years.  There are stunning quite mature specimens of Theophrasti in Columbia and Charleston SC.  One of last year's SPS newsletters had some great photos of the Columbia Theophrasti.  Here's my Sylvestris:

[Phoenikakias]

Bump! To all of you who have posted pics of pure theophrastii in this topic: how can you manage to keep your plants at that size still suckering free?

[Kostas]

In many plants,suckering is pronounced when they see drought,as a survival mechanism. In some species,if water is available at all times(such as in areas of high rainfall or high water table),suckering can be minimal to none. Date palms sucker very lightly in Pyrgos and surrounding areas,usually just 1-4 suckers at or very close to ground level, while in dry areas of Athens i see suckers coming up everywhere at the base and higher on the trunk! I also notice suckering to be quite light on date palms grown in wet areas of Kifissia which also have underground water constantly available.

Constant water availability will probably not stop suckering altogether but has good chances of minimizing it,always according to each specimen's genetic material(some are programmed to sucker more,some less,in most suckering species).

But from what i see in some in the pictures above dont seem like pure P. theophrastii,which is a shame if bought as one.

[Phoenikakias]

The 'logic' of nature may be ambivalently interpreted; why not thus in the way that nature in dry areas produces less suckers in order to concentrate all energy on one or fewer stems? Normally in nature prolific multiplication and expansion of a sp occures there, where conditions are right or close to ideal.

[Kostas]

It is well established in plants that stress increases suckering exponentially while constant good growing conditions minimize it. It is also established that increased sun exposure increases suckering and shade minimizes it. There isnt anything to challenge here,it is well established through studies.

Suckering produces many small propagules which require way less water to stay alive than the main plant,so if drought is too severe,main plant may lose its growing point and only suckers survive whose growing center's water needs are still met, being way less than the main stem's. Of course if drought continuous,everything dies eventually but the lowest trunk portion,bearing the suckers,is the last to be affected from drought and the last to remain alive in a severe drought.

[Phoenikakias]

The only time I was sure about initiating of suckering through stress, was by one Phoenix sp which had been brought to me with already dead the main stem. Iam sorry, I do not know wherefrom you get this information and whether it refers also to palms, but this theory contradicts all my experience, according to which a palm with alive and healthy initial stem starts suckering or splitting after attaining a certain size and robustness, as is the case countless times with Phoenix dactylifera I have grown from seed. If your theory is right, why no Phoenix of mine among the dozens I have grown from seed in pots initially, never ever with a sole exception suckered in pot, while same plants after a couple of years spent during establishment in the ground start suckering? If your theory is right one would expect that palms restricted in pots (where water and food resources are very limited) woud rather go mad in pots suckering all the time.