Sabal updates - the seedlings grow

[Dartolution]

With all this talk of arctic blasts, or polar vortex's, or snow bombs... whatever "pop" word we are using these days to describe these absolutely ghastly events I am reminded of past winter sowing projects from years past.

So, as a break from the cold today - I took some glamour shots (more like unglamorous) of all my sabal seedlings as they've grown, many that have been sent to me by other IPS/palmtalk members. 

Apologies in advance for the absolutely crap photos - I wish I bad a better spot to photograph palms! urgh. 

 

First up is good ol' Sabal palmetto. This was a washed up germinated seed at Panama city beach after a storm back in August of 2019. Today it's a nice 5 gallon sized palmetto. Stays outside year round and has gone down to 10F and been fine. I think one of the frond petioles may have turned a little brown. 

..

 

Next up we have "Megatron #2" - sent as a strap leaf seedling back in 2022. Thanks @buffy. Also stays out year-round and has seen 10F with no real issue. I think it did have some minor spotting back in December of 2022 when we got nailed by that horrible cold but no real damage. The 2020 year was a guess at its germination date based on the size of the seedling. May be off by a year? 

 

 

Sabal blackburniana seeds came to me back in 2021 from @Chris Chance, most have been gifted away, but I did keep 1 for myself. This year it has been a battle. I've been fighting false oleander scale on this one pretty hard hence the beat up appearance. Im finally winning though! 😃 This one needs an up-pot this spring. 

 

 

Then we have the toddlers. 🙃

Sabal minors - Emerald Isle Giants, as well as just run-of-the-mill bluestem from florida, and Sabal uresana from @Silas_Sancona.

.

 

The Uresana's are the slowest growing sabal I think I've ever germinated outside of palmetto. good grief! 2 yrs old and still little guys. I wish my old iPhone camera captured the blue better. New phone on the way! 

 

 

Hopefully this serves as inspiration to those here growing seedlings. 😊

 

 

 

[Fusca]

Well grown Shawn!  You're doing something right with them for sure.  Your F2 hybrid seedling (Megatron #2) seems to show hybrid vigor - pretty good growth.  I've never gotten any Sabal seedling to go palmate so quickly.  Same thing with the blackburniana. 

[amh]

4 hours ago, Dartolution said:

The Uresana's are the slowest growing sabal I think I've ever germinated outside of palmetto. good grief! 2 yrs old and still little guys. I wish my old iPhone camera captured the blue better. New phone on the way! 

From my limited experience, Sabal uresana will grow at a snails pace, if you are lucky and then decide to grow after year 3 or 4. The species is worth the wait.

[gyuseppe]

Sabal blackburniana is actually Sabal Bermudana

[gyuseppe]

yes Sabal uresana very slow, I made them with RPS seeds

[Silas_Sancona]

On 1/13/2025 at 8:01 PM, Dartolution said:

Sabal minors - Emerald Isle Giants, as well as just run-of-the-mill bluestem from florida, and Sabal uresana from @Silas_Sancona.

Slow to get moving perhaps  ..but they look great  ..So hats off on a job well done.  

 

[Chris Chance]

Great to see! Latest Sabal I have setting seed is riverside. 

[Chris Chance]

On 1/14/2025 at 1:46 AM, gyuseppe said:

Sabal blackburniana is actually Sabal Bermudana

I have blackburniana and it's definitely different than bermudana. Definitely more compact. 

[vlc]

On 1/13/2025 at 10:01 PM, Dartolution said:

With all this talk of arctic blasts, or polar vortex's, or snow bombs... whatever "pop" word we are using these days to describe these absolutely ghastly events I am reminded of past winter sowing projects from years past.

So, as a break from the cold today - I took some glamour shots (more like unglamorous) of all my sabal seedlings as they've grown, many that have been sent to me by other IPS/palmtalk members. 

Apologies in advance for the absolutely crap photos - I wish I bad a better spot to photograph palms! urgh. 

 

First up is good ol' Sabal palmetto. This was a washed up germinated seed at Panama city beach after a storm back in August of 2019. Today it's a nice 5 gallon sized palmetto. Stays outside year round and has gone down to 10F and been fine. I think one of the frond petioles may have turned a little brown. 

..

 

Next up we have "Megatron #2" - sent as a strap leaf seedling back in 2022. Thanks @buffy. Also stays out year-round and has seen 10F with no real issue. I think it did have some minor spotting back in December of 2022 when we got nailed by that horrible cold but no real damage. The 2020 year was a guess at its germination date based on the size of the seedling. May be off by a year? 

 

 

Sabal blackburniana seeds came to me back in 2021 from @Chris Chance, most have been gifted away, but I did keep 1 for myself. This year it has been a battle. I've been fighting false oleander scale on this one pretty hard hence the beat up appearance. Im finally winning though! 😃 This one needs an up-pot this spring. 

 

 

Then we have the toddlers. 🙃

Sabal minors - Emerald Isle Giants, as well as just run-of-the-mill bluestem from florida, and Sabal uresana from @Silas_Sancona.

.

 

The Uresana's are the slowest growing sabal I think I've ever germinated outside of palmetto. good grief! 2 yrs old and still little guys. I wish my old iPhone camera captured the blue better. New phone on the way! 

 

 

Hopefully this serves as inspiration to those here growing seedlings. 😊

 

 

 

Very nice! I also have the Blackburniana and it is definitely an interesting palm. I was told it is rather cold hardy and can be planted outside starting zone 7b ish. I was wondering where did you get yours?

[KPoff]

On 1/13/2025 at 9:01 PM, Dartolution said:

With all this talk of arctic blasts, or polar vortex's, or snow bombs... whatever "pop" word we are using these days to describe these absolutely ghastly events I am reminded of past winter sowing projects from years past.

So, as a break from the cold today - I took some glamour shots (more like unglamorous) of all my sabal seedlings as they've grown, many that have been sent to me by other IPS/palmtalk members. 

Apologies in advance for the absolutely crap photos - I wish I bad a better spot to photograph palms! urgh. 

 

First up is good ol' Sabal palmetto. This was a washed up germinated seed at Panama city beach after a storm back in August of 2019. Today it's a nice 5 gallon sized palmetto. Stays outside year round and has gone down to 10F and been fine. I think one of the frond petioles may have turned a little brown. 

..

 

Next up we have "Megatron #2" - sent as a strap leaf seedling back in 2022. Thanks @buffy. Also stays out year-round and has seen 10F with no real issue. I think it did have some minor spotting back in December of 2022 when we got nailed by that horrible cold but no real damage. The 2020 year was a guess at its germination date based on the size of the seedling. May be off by a year? 

 

 

Sabal blackburniana seeds came to me back in 2021 from @Chris Chance, most have been gifted away, but I did keep 1 for myself. This year it has been a battle. I've been fighting false oleander scale on this one pretty hard hence the beat up appearance. Im finally winning though! 😃 This one needs an up-pot this spring. 

 

 

Then we have the toddlers. 🙃

Sabal minors - Emerald Isle Giants, as well as just run-of-the-mill bluestem from florida, and Sabal uresana from @Silas_Sancona.

.

 

The Uresana's are the slowest growing sabal I think I've ever germinated outside of palmetto. good grief! 2 yrs old and still little guys. I wish my old iPhone camera captured the blue better. New phone on the way! 

 

 

Hopefully this serves as inspiration to those here growing seedlings. 😊

 

 

 

@Dartolution you leave all those potted plants outside all year round and never had any issues? That’s awesome! I’m scared to leave mine outside past 30 but I might experiment with a free one this next winter.

[Dartolution]

On 5/17/2025 at 5:12 PM, vlc said:

Very nice! I also have the Blackburniana and it is definitely an interesting palm. I was told it is rather cold hardy and can be planted outside starting zone 7b ish. I was wondering where did you get yours?

Hey @vlc, I received my Blackburniana in the ground from Phil at Jungle Music out in California. It has significant damage in the freeze event of Dec 22' and some spotting last winter. I am in zone 8 (technically b now) so, be forwarned. One of the blackburniana seedlings I received from @Chris Chance was gifted to family up in the northeast corner of the state (7b) - and it has struggled being burned badly for the last several winters. 

 

On 5/18/2025 at 10:20 AM, KPoff said:

@Dartolution you leave all those potted plants outside all year round and never had any issues? That’s awesome! I’m scared to leave mine outside past 30 but I might experiment with a free one this next winter.

@KPoff Yes, Palmetto, and Minor are native to the state - I have no concerns about them as they are seen growing just fine even 70 miles north of me. Blackburniana I've watched and only "protected" by placing it under my covered patio. Uresana has been an experiment and has so far been tough as nails. 

[KPoff]

23 hours ago, Dartolution said:

Hey @vlc, I received my Blackburniana in the ground from Phil at Jungle Music out in California. It has significant damage in the freeze event of Dec 22' and some spotting last winter. I am in zone 8 (technically b now) so, be forwarned. One of the blackburniana seedlings I received from @Chris Chance was gifted to family up in the northeast corner of the state (7b) - and it has struggled being burned badly for the last several winters. 

 

@KPoff Yes, Palmetto, and Minor are native to the state - I have no concerns about them as they are seen growing just fine even 70 miles north of me. Blackburniana I've watched and only "protected" by placing it under my covered patio. Uresana has been an experiment and has so far been tough as nails. 

@Dartolution it’s really out of laziness I don’t want to live them in and out. I think this next winter I’ll leave some out to 20 or so and see how it goes. I have a sabal palmetto or mexicana, not sure which that was gifted to me. I’ll see how it does in the winter being left out. My second Trachycarpus I murdered was from leaving it out in a pot over the winter. I don’t recall how cold it got though.

[vlc]

On 5/24/2025 at 10:10 AM, Dartolution said:

Hey @vlc, I received my Blackburniana in the ground from Phil at Jungle Music out in California. It has significant damage in the freeze event of Dec 22' and some spotting last winter. I am in zone 8 (technically b now) so, be forwarned. One of the blackburniana seedlings I received from @Chris Chance was gifted to family up in the northeast corner of the state (7b) - and it has struggled being burned badly for the last several winters.

Good to know. I have my Blackburniana in a large pot and don't intend on planting it in the ground anytime soon, even though the source I got mine from, told me the Blackburniana is among the most cold hardy palms out there. Here is the link to the one I got: https://desertscapenursery.com/products/copy-of-sabal-palm-oregon-hybrid-palm-tree-cold-hardy

I'm not sure if there are other Blackburniana "hybrids" out there that might be less or more cold hardy? 🤔

[Dartolution]

I think it's important to recognize that "blackburniana" is an unofficial and unrecognized designation for a sabal that has been in cultivation since the early 1900's(?). 

Over the years most sources have suggested it being native to the Dominican Republic and Haiti (see Jungle Music LINK HERE). Since it appears that Phil is getting his seed stock from those islands, and it just so happens that is the same native range as Sabal domingensis, it is likely just a synonym for the Hispaniola palm. (See Palmpedia LINK HERE). 

However, mine seems to favor more of Sabal bermudana at the moment (Palmpedia LINK HERE). 

I went down quite a rabbit hole a few years back when I decided on this palm and uncovered quite a lot of rather confusing and sometimes contradicting information about it. 

🤷‍♂️ I dunno. Form your own opinion about it. Either way, it's still a beautiful sabal that is absolutely huge. Mine is in good shape from this past winter. 

[ZPalms]

Omg... I planted Sabal bermudana I think a year ago, It's still very young though... I didnt realize how large they got 😂

[Chester B]

23 hours ago, vlc said:

Good to know. I have my Blackburniana in a large pot and don't intend on planting it in the ground anytime soon, even though the source I got mine from, told me the Blackburniana is among the most cold hardy palms out there. Here is the link to the one I got: https://desertscapenursery.com/products/copy-of-sabal-palm-oregon-hybrid-palm-tree-cold-hardy

I'm not sure if there are other Blackburniana "hybrids" out there that might be less or more cold hardy? 🤔

Don't believe anything that seller says.  He's full of it, and posts so much misleading and outright false information.

[Dartolution]

@ZPalms It's a big boy! lol 

@Chester B I don't know that seller, but it's pretty fishy when any listing uses other peoples pictures - whatever platform. 😕

[Chester B]

11 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

@ZPalms It's a big boy! lol 

@Chester B I don't know that seller, but it's pretty fishy when any listing uses other peoples pictures - whatever platform. 😕

There are no Jubaeas producing seeds on the eastern side of Oregon.  It’s the same as Idaho climate wise.  I only know of two groups of Jubaea WEST of the Cascades that are flowering and are in SOUTHERN Oregon and they have not produced viable seed yet. 
 

And also here’s my Sabal blackburniana. If I’m not mistaken they are from the Chance blackburniana in California. I just planted it this spring and the second frond is almost fully grown. Seems to be a fast grower so far. 

[Banana Belt]

On 5/27/2025 at 6:46 PM, Chester B said:

There are no Jubaeas producing seeds on the eastern side of Oregon.  It’s the same as Idaho climate wise.  I only know of two groups of Jubaea WEST of the Cascades that are flowering and are in SOUTHERN Oregon and they have not produced viable seed yet.

I believe you are correct.  It takes so long for Jubaea to produce seeds 40 plus years and even if they do it takes a bit longer to produce viable seeds. Here in Brookings Jubaea Inflorescence year around with only short pause in late fall.  Jubaea open their male flowers at the tips of the inflorescence up to three weeks before the female flowers open at the bottom.  In this way Jubaea try to pollinate their female flowers from other Jubaea Palms nearby and not pollen from their own inflorescence.  It is best to have at least two Jubaea in same area to help pollinate each other, the more mature Jubaea growing the better the pollination of viable fruit.  

On South Coast of Oregon, winter time spathes are smaller 3 feet long as compared to summer spathes of 5 feet.  Also during our cold winter season spathes grow slowly and male flowers will open inside the spathe before the female flowers swell enough to split it open, by then all the male flowers are spent and gone.  Summer spathes grow much faster and larger allowing the female flowers in lower part of the spathe to split it open before the end male flowers are spent.  When the spathe opens all at once male flowers disperse the pollen and must find female flowers preferably on a different tree in order to pollinate.  A Jubaea growing by itself has less chance of producing seed because of the time difference between opening of the male and female flowers. only if two spathes open a couple weeks apart would the same tree be able to pollinate and produce seed.

There are many Jubaea at Mission Park San Diego where good viable seeds can be found which is a perfect setting for the palms to reproduce.  On these trees clusters of many Jubaea fruit will grow which probably were pollinated by several other nearby Jubaea.

Last year one of our two Jubaea produced seed for the first time, 40 years old right on schedule.  This year I am hoping for a better crop with larger clusters of fruit.  Jubaea from seed to viable seed takes an entire persons lifetime, where it requires someone to start young and live long to see the fruit of their own labor.  

[vlc]

On 5/27/2025 at 10:42 AM, Chester B said:

Don't believe anything that seller says.  He's full of it, and posts so much misleading and outright false information.

May I ask what makes you say that this seller is posting misleading and outright false information? Have you had any bad experiences with this specific seller?

[Chester B]

15 hours ago, vlc said:

May I ask what makes you say that this seller is posting misleading and outright false information? Have you had any bad experiences with this specific seller?

He makes claims about all these mature seeding palms growing east of the cascades, which very few palms can survive it’s just too cold.  And then he steals photos from the internet alleging that these are the palms, people on here have tracked down the originals or they were their photos. I’ve spent a lot of time in Bend and Redmond, the closest thing to a palm I saw was Yucca rostrata. Palms in Hood River struggle and it’s a whole lot warmer. 
 

People on here have posed questions about said palms to the vendor and generally get no response. 
 

The palms he sells are just fine in regards to quality but the backstories and cold hardy claims are fiction. This is a continuous problem in the palm growing world with unscrupulous vendors making wild cold hardy claims to sell plants. 

[JohnAndSancho]

15 minutes ago, Chester B said:

He makes claims about all these mature seeding palms growing east of the cascades, which very few palms can survive it’s just too cold.  And then he steals photos from the internet alleging that these are the palms, people on here have tracked down the originals or they were their photos. I’ve spent a lot of time in Bend and Redmond, the closest thing to a palm I saw was Yucca rostrata. Palms in Hood River struggle and it’s a whole lot warmer. 
 

People on here have posed questions about said palms to the vendor and generally get no response. 
 

The palms he sells are just fine in regards to quality but the backstories and cold hardy claims are fiction. This is a continuous problem in the palm growing world with unscrupulous vendors making wild cold hardy claims to sell plants. 

This is not a shot at any particular person or vendor, but I love the eBay and Etsy sellers selling palms for fairly cheap and posting pics of nothing but obviously mature 10-20 year old palms and no photos of what they're actually selling. 

[KPoff]

On 5/27/2025 at 9:42 AM, Chester B said:

Don't believe anything that seller says.  He's full of it, and posts so much misleading and outright false information.

@Chester B I bought a “zone 6” rated Washingtonia Filifera 😆 from him. I knew there was no way but it was cheap and they sent me 3 for the price of one. I split them all into different pots and all are growing fine. I got them purely because I was hoping they are pure filifera. Filifera is one palm that seems to absolutely thrive in west Texas even surviving 2021.

[Chester B]

44 minutes ago, KPoff said:

@Chester B I bought a “zone 6” rated Washingtonia Filifera 😆 from him. I knew there was no way but it was cheap and they sent me 3 for the price of one. I split them all into different pots and all are growing fine. I got them purely because I was hoping they are pure filifera. Filifera is one palm that seems to absolutely thrive in west Texas even surviving 2021.

The thing is you know about these palms and have knowledge and reasonable expectations.  A newer person to the hobby may read this and take it as fact, spend the money, get their hopes up and later on wonder what went wrong and be disappointed.

I'm not saying they don't sell good quality plants, it's the sales tactics and misinformation is what gets my goat.

I have filifera from two different sources.  One courtesy of @MarcusH and a few from seeds I collected from some nice looking palms in Goodyear, AZ.  I wish I had collected seeds when I was in Palm Springs a few years back.  Out there they had some nice filifera.