Sabal Birmingham vs Brazoriensis

[OriolesRock100]

As title states - trying to find the differences between these two Sabal minor x palmetto hybrids to determine which I will try here in Zone 7A. Information that I could find online was limited, but it seems like Brazoriensis is more cold hardy and faster growing, but Birmingham has more palmetto-like characteristics. Would both of these palms do well in Zone 7A unprotected (at least for most part)? I’m thinking I will buy seedlings this winter with intentions of eventually putting them in the ground this spring or next spring. Would appreciate any experience from any Sabal experts on here  Thank you!

[Allen]

Sabal minor and needle will do best for you there.  Next is a toss up on the 2 you mentioned.  Add 1/2 zone to my zone ratings in this video as it was done before the zone update map.   so 7a would be 7b etc.  The brazoria has done well till about 0F

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IFU7FPchs0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQvsZG8gVOk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv0J8ata_xw

 

[OriolesRock100]

7 minutes ago, Allen said:

Sabal minor and needle will do best for you there.  Next is a toss up on the 2 you mentioned.  Add 1/2 zone to my zone ratings in this video as it was done before the zone update map.   so 7a would be 7b etc.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IFU7FPchs0

 

In your video I see you have the Brazoriensis labeled as 7B - online I saw many sources call it a 7A palm that can take subzero temps (saw one account of brief -15° which seems insane). Do you think these are inaccurate or just especially hardy specimens? I know they’re not common compared to normal Sabal minor and palmetto so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the latter. I also saw some similar -5° or 0° hardiness ratings online for the Birmingham. I might end up trying one of them anyways just for fun. I already have a needle and minor that will go in the ground this spring for sure. 

[Allen]

1 minute ago, OriolesRock100 said:

In your video I see you have the Brazoriensis labeled as 7B - online I saw many sources call it a 7A palm that can take subzero temps (saw one account of brief -15° which seems insane). Do you think these are inaccurate or just especially hardy specimens? I know they’re not common compared to normal Sabal minor and palmetto so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the latter. I also saw some similar -5° or 0° hardiness ratings online for the Birmingham. I might end up trying one of them anyways just for fun. I already have a needle and minor that will go in the ground this spring for sure. 

A big trunked specimen in a hot area or dry desert will take lower temps and survive better than your location.  In your location until it grows above ground which will be forever it will benefit from the ground heat as the growing point is underground.  Thus it will defoliate but be hard to kill. 

[OriolesRock100]

4 minutes ago, Allen said:

A big trunked specimen in a hot area or dry desert will take lower temps and survive better than your location.  In your location until it grows above ground which will be forever it will benefit from the ground heat as the growing point is underground.  Thus it will defoliate but be hard to kill. 

Got it, that makes sense. Thanks for your insight!  Like I said I might try one for fun in a pot or with some protection, but I’ll stick with minor and needle palms as my primary staples for my climate.

Who knows, based on accounts of how slowly it grows, by the time I would actually put a Birmingham in the ground (if I grow one from seed), we might actually be a Zone 7B haha

[Zone7Bpalmguy]

2 hours ago, OriolesRock100 said:

As title states - trying to find the differences between these two Sabal minor x palmetto hybrids to determine which I will try here in Zone 7A. Information that I could find online was limited, but it seems like Brazoriensis is more cold hardy and faster growing, but Birmingham has more palmetto-like characteristics. Would both of these palms do well in Zone 7A unprotected (at least for most part)? I’m thinking I will buy seedlings this winter with intentions of eventually putting them in the ground this spring or next spring. Would appreciate any experience from any Sabal experts on here  Thank you!

My sabal Brazoria is on a southeast facing while my birmingham is on a southwest facing. Having said that, my Brazoria appears to be hardier and grows faster and recovers faster too. Now, does the fact that my birmingham is a little more exposed to potential cold westerly wind explain the difference? Can't say for certain. 

 

The above videos are from 3 months ago. Both of these were planted in 2020 or 2021 . The Birmingham was a 3g and the Brazoria was a 7g, so it had a bigger start. 

[Chester B]

I think you should try both, you only live once.  I had a Birmingham and it was as slow as molasses, but on the flip side it will be real easy to protect for years and years.

Personally I prefer brazoriensis.

[PAPalmtrees]

22 hours ago, OriolesRock100 said:

As title states - trying to find the differences between these two Sabal minor x palmetto hybrids to determine which I will try here in Zone 7A. Information that I could find online was limited, but it seems like Brazoriensis is more cold hardy and faster growing, but Birmingham has more palmetto-like characteristics. Would both of these palms do well in Zone 7A unprotected (at least for most part)? I’m thinking I will buy seedlings this winter with intentions of eventually putting them in the ground this spring or next spring. Would appreciate any experience from any Sabal experts on here  Thank you!

Where do you live in Pennsylvania cuz I also live in zone 7A Pennsylvania

[Fusca]

47 minutes ago, PaPalmTrees said:

Where do you live in Pennsylvania cuz I also live in zone 7A Pennsylvania

Does Needmore need more palms?  😆

[OriolesRock100]

51 minutes ago, PaPalmTrees said:

Where do you live in Pennsylvania cuz I also live in zone 7A Pennsylvania

I’m in Southeast PA - Lancaster county

[MattInRaleigh]

I asked a similar question to one of the botanic gardens in Raleigh, NC that is growing both. You can see the question and answer in the comments of this blog post on Sabal Birmingham:

https://www.juniperlevelbotanicgarden.org/birminghams-palm/

[PAPalmtrees]

Nice I live in southcentral PA z7a In Fulton County About ten minutes away from Maryland.

[PAPalmtrees]

2 hours ago, Fusca said:

Does Needmore need more palms?  😆

Yeah it does need more palms lol

[Turtile]

On 1/2/2025 at 5:52 PM, OriolesRock100 said:

As title states - trying to find the differences between these two Sabal minor x palmetto hybrids to determine which I will try here in Zone 7A. Information that I could find online was limited, but it seems like Brazoriensis is more cold hardy and faster growing, but Birmingham has more palmetto-like characteristics. Would both of these palms do well in Zone 7A unprotected (at least for most part)? I’m thinking I will buy seedlings this winter with intentions of eventually putting them in the ground this spring or next spring. Would appreciate any experience from any Sabal experts on here  Thank you!

Neither plant will survive in your location without protection. Most record lows occur when there is snow on the ground. Because the growing point of S. x brazoriensis is underground when young, I had one survive -6F. Everything above the snow burned. If the growing point were above the snow, it would be dead. 

Growth speed is vital for long-term survival. With your short growing season, S. "Birmingham" will not recover from burnt foliage in a single year. S. x brazoriensis will recover much faster and will have a greater chance of surviving a second cold event.

[OriolesRock100]

47 minutes ago, MattInRaleigh said:

I asked a similar question to one of the botanic gardens in Raleigh, NC that is growing both. You can see the question and answer in the comments of this blog post on Sabal Birmingham:

https://www.juniperlevelbotanicgarden.org/birminghams-palm/

Thanks Matt that was a very imformative read!

6 minutes ago, Turtile said:

Neither plant will survive in your location without protection. Most record lows occur when there is snow on the ground. Because the growing point of S. x brazoriensis is underground when young, I had one survive -6F. Everything above the snow burned. If the growing point were above the snow, it would be dead. 

Growth speed is vital for long-term survival. With your short growing season, S. "Birmingham" will not recover from burnt foliage in a single year. S. x brazoriensis will recover much faster and will have a greater chance of surviving a second cold event.

Birmingham not working long-term unprotected here would make sense to me - growing season not long enough to recoup from a bad winter since it is so slow-growing. I would be skeptical of Brazoriensis if all the accounts I have read are true. It sounds to be much more vigorous of a grower, which to me indicates it could work out. Our growing season may have less hot, humid days than the deep south, but we definitely have a better summer climate for sabal growth than anywhere out west where people have seen some success with sabals and specifically, these hybrids. We haven't had temps that would kill a Brazoriensis outright in many years, I think it would survive with frond damage in a particularly bad winter if I am able to keep it dry. I think I'm going to give it a try anyways if I can get my hands on any Brazoriensis (it seems to be rarer than Birmingham, haven't found any yet), and just cover it if forecasts call for extreme cold + wet conditions which wouldn't be every year by any means.