Cold damage or something else (Phoenix)

[JRVL]

Hey, everyone. I wanted to check to see the thoughts on an issue on my Phoenix sylvestris. 

 

Planted last March and it was a few cold nights and got a few black spots on the leaflets but nothing too serious. This winter I have been protecting it when it gets to the mid twenties but not higher than that.  Anyway there's two spears growing that seem fine but the two youngest friends have seemingly died. One had just really started to open. I read that new fronds are more hardy than older fronds so I'm wondering if I'm dealing with cold damage or something else. 

 

 

[Allen]

When you say protecting describe exactly.  If you wrapped C9 bulbs in there...................

[JRVL]

@AllenI have built a chicken wire enclosure with wrapped in frost cloth. I have two strands of c9 on the fencing connected to a thermocube. 

[JRVL]

@Allen No bulbs touch any of the fronds. I do wonder if I physically damaged the fronds when I was tying them up though. I do it differently and more effectively now, but initially it was difficult to do alone and I might have hurt them. 

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, JRVL said:

I read that new fronds are more hardy than older fronds so I'm wondering if I'm dealing with cold damage or something else. 

Where did you read this?  Doesn't sound right - seems to me that new fronds are more tender and therefore more likely to be damaged.

There might be some crown rot.  Gently tug on the damaged spear to see if it pulls out.  If so treat with some hydrogen peroxide followed by copper fungicide.  It should recover without problems.  It happened to my Phoenix roebelenii the last two winters with 27°F ultimate low and it quickly grew out of it.

[JRVL]

@Allen No bulbs touch any of the fronds. I do wonder if I physically damaged the fronds when I was tying them up though. I do it differently and more effectively now, but initially it was difficult to do alone and I might have hurt them. 

 

I think I've read it here at some point. Yeah I started pouring some peroxide in once it started plus I have sprayed it with a systemic fungicide. Not much fizzing from the peroxide. Just hope it'll be fine in spring I guess 

[JRVL]

@FuscaI clearly don't know how to quote the correct posts I'm replying to lol. 

[Fusca]

11 minutes ago, JRVL said:

@FuscaI clearly don't know how to quote the correct posts I'm replying to lol. 

LOL!  You can click on "Quote" at the bottom of the post you want to respond to.  Or if you're on a laptop you can just highlight the specific text you are referring to and then click on "Quote selection".  I can't do that on my phone so I just click "Quote" which selects the entire post including photos and then I delete the unnecessary items from the quote. 

[Allen]

51 minutes ago, JRVL said:

@AllenI have built a chicken wire enclosure with wrapped in frost cloth. I have two strands of c9 on the fencing connected to a thermocube. 

2 strands of C9 is a LOT.  Was the thermocube close to the spear area?  I would feel better if you put a wireless thermometer in the spear area next time to see what it does heat wise.   To heat that little palm probably takes about 7 C9 bulbs or 49 watts

[JRVL]

17 minutes ago, Allen said:

2 strands of C9 is a LOT.  Was the thermocube close to the spear area?  I would feel better if you put a wireless thermometer in the spear area next time to see what it does heat wise.   To heat that little palm probably takes about 7 C9 bulbs or 49 watts

I had a thermometer on the boots, fairly close to the spear. I'll post pictures of the contraption I've put together. The thermometer never shows higher than about 48 before the lights turn off. And I actually just added the second strand this week, so whatever caused this issue would have been previously. 

[Mazat]

2 hours ago, JRVL said:

Hey, everyone. I wanted to check to see the thoughts on an issue on my Phoenix sylvestris. 

 

Planted last March and it was a few cold nights and got a few black spots on the leaflets but nothing too serious. This winter I have been protecting it when it gets to the mid twenties but not higher than that.  Anyway there's two spears growing that seem fine but the two youngest friends have seemingly died. One had just really started to open. I read that new fronds are more hardy than older fronds so I'm wondering if I'm dealing with cold damage or something else. 

 

 

yes, it sounds like cold damage. i can only agree with fusca, from my own experience with Phoenix roebelenii. it looked exactly like yours, only i waited too long for it to recover on its own, unfortunately. i would implement fusca's idea immediately. i had -4.5 °C on the balcony as the absolute lowest temperature, and everything is protected all around with several layers of fleece and the more sensitive palms are also protected individually. hoffe sie erholt sich 😃. 

[Mazat]

1 minute ago, Mazat said:

yes, it sounds like cold damage. i can only agree with fusca, from my own experience with Phoenix roebelenii. it looked exactly like yours, only i waited too long for it to recover on its own, unfortunately. i would implement fusca's idea immediately. i had -4.5 °C on the balcony as the absolute lowest temperature, and everything is protected all around with several layers of fleece and the more sensitive palms are also protected individually. hoffe sie erholt sich 😃. 

hoffe sie erholt sich 😃.  ups, i wrote in german - hope she recovers well 😊

[JRVL]

6 minutes ago, Mazat said:

hoffe sie erholt sich 😃.  ups, i wrote in german - hope she recovers well 😊

Thank you!

[Mazat]

11 minutes ago, JRVL said:

Ich hatte ein Thermometer an den Stiefeln, ziemlich nah am Speer. Ich werde Bilder von der Vorrichtung posten, die ich zusammengebaut habe. Das Thermometer zeigt nie mehr als etwa 48 an, bevor die Lichter ausgehen. Und ich habe den zweiten Strang tatsächlich erst diese Woche hinzugefügt, also muss das, was dieses Problem verursacht hat, schon vorher da gewesen sein. 

wow, that's really a lot of protection, maybe it really gets too warm and the palm is too dry or dries out a bit. but it's also difficult to find the balance. i'm more of a person who doesn't work actively enough with extra heat or is very careful.
in the end, however, it's good if we love our palms and do everything we can to ensure that they thrive and live long.

[JRVL]

1 minute ago, Mazat said:

wow, that's really a lot of protection, maybe it really gets too warm and the palm is too dry or dries out a bit. but it's also difficult to find the balance. i'm more of a person who doesn't work actively enough with extra heat or is very careful.
in the end, however, it's good if we love our palms and do everything we can to ensure that they thrive and live long.

Well the lights turn off at 45 F and turn back on when it hits 35. It's definitely possible it could be getting too hot I suppose, but the same tree is able to withstand 100 plus this summer so I just don't know lol. Once I make it through my first winter with it I'll probably be less worrisome over it.

[Mazat]

6 minutes ago, JRVL said:

Well the lights turn off at 45 F and turn back on when it hits 35. It's definitely possible it could be getting too hot I suppose, but the same tree is able to withstand 100 plus this summer so I just don't know lol. Once I make it through my first winter with it I'll probably be less worrisome over it.

yes, it really is like that on the one hand it gets too warm, on the other hand it can withstand the heat well. did you have a lot of rain (also the amount) in your garden during the summer?

[JRVL]

A tremendous amount of rain. Several inches a week sometimes during the summer. This tree had crown rot shortly after planting it after March which I was able to take care of and it started to really take off. That's when I bought some aliette systemic fungicide to treat it along with hydrogen peroxide. I sprayed it going into winter again and recently started doing peroxide pours. At this point I hear no fizzing when I do it. 

 

23 minutes ago, Mazat said:

yes, it really is like that on the one hand it gets too warm, on the other hand it can withstand the heat well. did you have a lot of rain (also the amount) in your garden during the summer?

 

[Allen]

3 hours ago, JRVL said:

I had a thermometer on the boots, fairly close to the spear. I'll post pictures of the contraption I've put together. The thermometer never shows higher than about 48 before the lights turn off. And I actually just added the second strand this week, so whatever caused this issue would have been previously. 

Yes nothing looks wrong with that protection.  Sorry!  I was just paranoid because I have seen so many ways people do this wrong.  Pour hydrogen peroxide in the spear and let it dry then try to keep palm dry till spear growth.  I don't know what is going on with it.

[JRVL]

19 minutes ago, Allen said:

Yes nothing looks wrong with that protection.  Sorry!  I was just paranoid because I have seen so many ways people do this wrong.  Pour hydrogen peroxide in the spear and let it dry then try to keep palm dry till spear growth.  I don't know what is going on with it.

No worries! I watched a lot of your videos on YouTube before I ever bought the trees I have to learn what to do lol.

 

I'll keep doing peroxide and hope it grows out of whatever this issue is in spring 

[Allen]

12 minutes ago, JRVL said:

No worries! I watched a lot of your videos on YouTube before I ever bought the trees I have to learn what to do lol.

 

I'll keep doing peroxide and hope it grows out of whatever this issue is in spring 

I meant to say it is not too many lights with the way that is setup 

[Mazat]

15 hours ago, JRVL said:

A tremendous amount of rain. Several inches a week sometimes during the summer. This tree had crown rot shortly after planting it after March which I was able to take care of and it started to really take off. That's when I bought some aliette systemic fungicide to treat it along with hydrogen peroxide. I sprayed it going into winter again and recently started doing peroxide pours. At this point I hear no fizzing when I do it. 

 

 

Okay, 

that's good. now you have done everything and the protection is completely fine. so “the little beauty one” can continue to grow in the spring. much joy😄