Areca catechu

[spockvr6]

I bought this palm as an oddity (there are rare around here) and figured it might not really grow all that well here.  Boy was I wrong.  This thing is really turning out to be a real looker!  It flies with heat and water.  The grow rings are getting ridiculiously far apart.  If you look closely in the photo of the trunk, you can see where the new rings, which are still hidden under the old bases) are going to be.

I placed this palm in a fairly protected spot in my yard near the house where it would get protection from intense sun and cold.  I also have covered this palm on nights where I think it might get into the low 40's or below.

So far so good and I hope I can keep this palm around awhile.

What are other experiences with this palm?  Whats the absolute lowest temp it will withstand?

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Larry......That's a nice looking Betel Nut......I have a catechu, and it loves the heat and water..it has been in the ground just a year next month, but I'm happy with it so far.  

    Last winter we had some early mornings in the mid 40's and i did see some lower leaf spotting....considering the pace at which it grows thats pretty much a non-issue.

    It's planted by a small pond and the northern quadrent is blocked by a healthy hedge of sea hibiscus...it gets allot of sun, which hasnt seemed to hurt it.....

....except it's petiols are so short that they are almost not there...i'm wondering if that is what i have at all comparing it to yours....there is a dwarf catechu....what do you think?

[Walter John]

Could be a dwarf variety, either way, both these Areca catechus look terrific. Don't you just love that deep green.

Questions for Larry and Rusty, how old/big were they when planted ? What pot size ? How long ago when planted ?

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Wal......wish i had some before and after pics to share...hard drive crashed and no, i didnt back up...it was on my 'to don't' list.

.......the tree came in a 10g pot, and really had grown like a sunofagun in a short year.....the base was no where near the present diameter, and it may have had just one tiny ring of trunk....when i look at other folks trees, i try to tell when it was planted by looking at the trunk rings, and on this one you can see where they started to get larger.....it sure wasted no time stretching it's legs after  being liberated from the pot.

[happ]

Larry & Rusty

Those are handsome bethel nuts.  

I recently damaged the roots when transplanting the palm into the ground.  Cut it down to one frond but it is growing again.  Water is the best friend of catechu and banana leaves protect the tree in winter.

[DoomsDave]

Happ!

Nice to see you again, my fave weatherman!

dave

[DoomsDave]

The trouble in So-Cal with Arecas is they just don't like the long cool season, though I've managed to get a few to sorta make it back in my old dive in Lost Analjuice, El Screamo.  

Every year Home Despot has them, and every year, I buy a couple, and they just rot.  

Ralph Velez had a huge one poke up through his greenhouse, and it eventually got whacked by frost.  (If memory serves.)

dave

[SunnyFl]

(Rusty on Pine Is. @ Aug. 19 2006,16:48)

QUOTE

it's petiols are so short that they are almost not there...i'm wondering if that is what i have at all comparing it to yours....there is a dwarf catechu....what do you think?

It sure looks a lot like my A. triandras.  Nice deep green color with those beautiful crownshafts.  Have you noticed any tendency to cluster?  Of course, if it's a small one, it might not have - yet.  

According to a botanist whose name escapes me, triandra is very close to the catechu, so close that it might be a variant of it.  Also, there is an areca sometimes called "dwarf catechu," which I believe is the guppyana.  And there's another areca that resembles the catechu - isn't it the ipot?

Anyway, it's a pretty little Areca.

[Walt]

Larry,

I told you a few weeks ago that I was no longer buying any more tender palms, but after seeing your Areca catechu I might have to make an exception. In fact, I know I will.

Walt

[SunnyFl]

(spockvr6 @ Aug. 19 2006,13:13)

QUOTE

I bought this palm as an oddity (there are rare around here) and figured it might not really grow all that well here.  Boy was I wrong.  This thing is really turning out to be a real looker!  It flies with heat and water.  The grow rings are getting ridiculiously far apart.  If you look closely in the photo of the trunk, you can see where the new rings, which are still hidden under the old bases) are going to be.

I placed this palm in a fairly protected spot in my yard near the house where it would get protection from intense sun and cold.  I also have covered this palm on nights where I think it might get into the low 40's or below.

So far so good and I hope I can keep this palm around awhile.

You're growing catechu.... in Tarpon Springs??  Wow - now that's pushing the zone envelope, isn't it!  Because catechus are supposed to be zone 11.

The photos are very nice - love the look of that palm!  Hope you can keep it going up there.  Arecas are beauties - I've been too nervous to put my triandras in the ground as there's no shade for them yet.

Be careful though - if it does well up there and the County finds out - it may get listed as Invasive (see Queen-Palm-in Brevard posts on CFPAC board, grrrr)

[spockvr6]

(Rusty on Pine Is. @ Aug. 19 2006,16:48)

QUOTE

    Last winter we had some early mornings in the mid 40's and i did see some lower leaf spotting....considering the pace at which it grows thats pretty much a non-issue.

Rusty-

I noticed the exact same thing.....about 44-45F and I first started seeing signs of "unhappiness" on the leaves.  But, as you noted, these things grow pretty quickly, so such small blemishes dont account to much over time.

But, I would certainly say that in my area (I will get far colder than you will on Pine Island on the worst nights) yearly protection will be a must in order to keep the palm looking its best.  It would probably survive unprotected until a bad one hit (something less than 30F), but might look like h@#$ warmed over.

[spockvr6]

(Rusty on Pine Is. @ Aug. 19 2006,16:48)

QUOTE

    It's planted by a small pond and the northern quadrent is blocked by a healthy hedge of sea hibiscus...it gets allot of sun, which hasnt seemed to hurt it.....

....except it's petiols are so short that they are almost not there...i'm wondering if that is what i have at all comparing it to yours....there is a dwarf catechu....what do you think?

It could be sun or you could have a dwarf.  Unfortunately, I dont know enough about this species to be conclusive.  I have seen the dwarf variety in person and it does bear some resemblance to yours (they have a very robust and stout appearance).

That being said, I have noticed that mine (even though planted on the north side of the house),  whicis now peeking over the roofline and and thus gets direct sun, has started to shorten up the petioles over this time last year (when it was in deep shade and thus had very "droopy" and elongated petioles).

[spockvr6]

(Wal @ Aug. 19 2006,17:05)

QUOTE

Questions for Larry and Rusty, how old/big were they when planted ? What pot size ? How long ago when planted ?

Wal-

Mine was a 7 gallon size with no real trunk when planted in late Spring 2005.  I believe it was May, or perhaps early June 2005.  

I also had a hard drive crash and lost almost all photos prior to 2006, so unfortunately I dont have an exact date the palm was planted nor a picture of it when first planted  

Id say that with the pace its on, it will have roughly 3 ft of woody trunk by the end of the this year.

[spockvr6]

(SunnyFl @ Aug. 19 2006,20:04)

QUOTE

(spockvr6 @ Aug. 19 2006,13:13)

QUOTE

I bought this palm as an oddity (there are rare around here) and figured it might not really grow all that well here.  Boy was I wrong.  This thing is really turning out to be a real looker!  It flies with heat and water.  The grow rings are getting ridiculiously far apart.  If you look closely in the photo of the trunk, you can see where the new rings, which are still hidden under the old bases) are going to be.

I placed this palm in a fairly protected spot in my yard near the house where it would get protection from intense sun and cold.  I also have covered this palm on nights where I think it might get into the low 40's or below.

So far so good and I hope I can keep this palm around awhile.

You're growing catechu.... in Tarpon Springs??  Wow - now that's pushing the zone envelope, isn't it!  Because catechus are supposed to be zone 11.

The photos are very nice - love the look of that palm!  Hope you can keep it going up there.  Arecas are beauties - I've been too nervous to put my triandras in the ground as there's no shade for them yet.

Be careful though - if it does well up there and the County finds out - it may get listed as Invasive (see Queen-Palm-in Brevard posts on CFPAC board, grrrr)

Sunny....I would say I have zone denial, but since you know about all my doomsday preparation supplies, youll know that I dont have denial....just desires for palms that dont belong here

I found two other A. catechu in the ground in Safety Harbor late last year.  A few weeks after Feb 14th, I happened to drive by again and figured Id see how they looked....not very good   They were not damaged to the point of not being able to recover, but I could see that they had lost all but 2 of their leaves on one palm and one on the other.  So, their is no doubt this is a tender palm and I believe the Zone 11 rating in order to maintain a "look" that is normal.  As Rusty noted above, even middle 40's will start to visibly stress these palms.    

LOL on them being "invasive"!  I think if everyone in Pinellas adopted palm socks that might be a possibility!

[spockvr6]

(happ @ Aug. 19 2006,18:19)

QUOTE

Water is the best friend of catechu

Happ-

No doubt.

Mine stays wet all the time and is heavily mulched.  I believe it is impossible to overwater this palm in my soil.

[spockvr6]

(Walt @ Aug. 19 2006,20:00)

QUOTE

Larry,

I told you a few weeks ago that I was no longer buying any more tender palms, but after seeing your Areca catechu I might have to make an exception. In fact, I know I will.

Walt

Walt-

There is always room for one more isnt there?

I would bet that this palm, especially in dwaf form, would also make a great potted patio palm.

If I was smart, thats how I would have grown mine, but I have this "thing" for having palms in the ground

[Walt]

Larry,

If I get that palm I would container grow it through a 20 gallon size, then I would plant it in a protected spot. While I could plant it smaller and protect it, I just have too many palms now to protect.

Walt

[bgl]

Whoa, lots of names mentioned above! Larry and Rusty, nice looking Arecas! Larry, I'm sure yours is the "standard" catechu. Rusty's, not so sure. If, over the next year, the nodes tend to get further apart as it grows, it's probably a "standard". If the nodes stay real close together, it's probably a "dwarf". And I'm sure they are catechus. Triandras would already be multi-trunked at that size. Between the four species mentioned in the posts above (primarily by Sunny), ipot has a greyish trunk, while catechu, guppyana and triandra have green trunks. Here's a typical "standard" catechu trunk.

[bgl]

And this is a typical Areca catechu, "dwarf" variety.

[bgl]

Two Areca guppyana, which is quite different from either catechu or triandra. Thinner trunk and a more sparse crown. Also, very defined stilt roots (sort of visible, especially on the individual on the right).

[bgl]

Trunk of a typical Areca triandra.

[bgl]

And finally, the A. ipot. According to An Encyclopedia of Cultivated Palms, A. ipot gets no taller than 12 ft. This particular individual is at least 25 ft tall!

[bgl]

Sorry about the quality of the previous photo. Heavy canopy in that area and that was the best 'full view' shot that was possible. Here's a close-up of the trunk. Sorry about all the moss. An inevitable side-effect of all the rain and moisture here (but then again, that's probably what they look like in habitat!!).

[SunnyFl]

(bgl @ Aug. 19 2006,22:43)

QUOTE

Between the four species mentioned in the posts above (primarily by Sunny), ipot has a greyish trunk, while catechu, guppyana and triandra have green trunks.

Bo, thanks for all the info!  And I'm glad you posted your pic of the ipot - I had seen a beautiful pic of an Areca labelled "ipot" that was quite a bit different, including a very green crownshaft.  So that must have been an error on the part of whoever provided the photo.  I'm glad to know what the ipot really looks like from your pictures.

[spockvr6]

(bgl @ Aug. 19 2006,22:47)

QUOTE

And finally, the A. ipot. According to An Encyclopedia of Cultivated Palms, A. ipot gets no taller than 12 ft. This particular individual is at least 25 ft tall!

I think RLR was talking about an A. ipot in a "normal" climate Bo!

Not those steroidal conditions you have out there!  LOL.

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Bo, thanks allot for those pics, they really show the differences, don't they?

The photo of the  A. catechu"dwarf" looks just like mine, IMO....here's a close up of mine showing the lack of petiole.

[happ]

(bgl @ Aug. 19 2006,22:44)

QUOTE

And this is a typical Areca catechu, "dwarf" variety.

Bo-Göran

Nice specimen  

Since you once lived in California, what do you think of the chances that bethel nut will ever look as healthy here?  

A. catechu is in a south-facing sunny location [though protected by bananas] and only 6 feet from the house.  It lived in a pot in the same location for a year and experienced a 38F degree minimum in early March.  Now it is in the ground though not without trauma to its roots thanks to sloppy transplanting.  It is growing again.

[spockvr6]

(Rusty on Pine Is. @ Aug. 20 2006,09:07)

QUOTE

Bo, thanks allot for those pics, they really show the differences, don't they?

The photo of the  A. catechu"dwarf" looks just like mine, IMO....here's a close up of mine showing the lack of petiole.

Rusty-

Based on your latest pic, yours sure seems to look like the dwarf variety.

[bgl]

Rusty,

yes, I agree with Larry, that does look like the dwarf. So, assuming this is what you want, you want this palm to grow V-E-R-Y slowly over the next year or so, and that would confirm it!

Happ,

As far as I know, all Arecas are rainforest palms, which means it's not just the low temps that are a detriment to growing them well, but also (in California's case) the lack of humidity and rainfall. If you're able to keep it alive, I think it's always going to be marginal in the way it looks. If that weren't true, many, many Palm Society members in SoCal would have healthy and great looking Arecas!

Bo-Göran

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Larry and Bo.......hey, thanks allot for the input!  And yes, I have to agree with you both, which doesn't hurt my feelings a bit....I really do like it, it's a pretty little palm.  I'm glad now that I know what it really is!

Perhaps next year I'll post a before and after set of pics to show how much it has grown....or not grown as the case may be.....

[spockvr6]

(Rusty on Pine Is. @ Aug. 20 2006,13:33)

QUOTE

Larry and Bo.......hey, thanks allot for the input!  And yes, I have to agree with you both, which doesn't hurt my feelings a bit....I really do like it, it's a pretty little palm.  I'm glad now that I know what it really is!

Perhaps next year I'll post a before and after set of pics to show how much it has grown....or not grown as the case may be.....

Rusty-

IMO, the dwarf is the more desirable of the two.

[Tyrone]

I've been following this thread very closely because I'm experimenting with this one in a climate similar to San Diego, but a few degrees hotter in summer.

I've been quite surprised with catechu and vestiara. My catechu is planted against a north facing wall and is in a plastic tent with rocks around the base and although only planted last summer has grown well and is copiously flooded in the warm weather. It probably hasn't dropped below 4C thanks to its protected position against the house. It has been pushing a spear all winter. The temps have been getting to 38C in there when the suns out which has probably helped negate some of the colder nights. The same treatment to my Adonidia didn't wake it from it's cold induced coma until summer, and even then Adonidia was pathetic in my climate, wheras my A catechu will probably open a brand new leaf ready for the start of spring. It is much more cool hardy than I imagined. My A vestiara that is planted out as well although not growing, as it isn't protected by a tent has retained it's leaves unmarked that were grown in my climate, but the leaves formed in the tropics have died. I believe it will kick on when spring arrives next month.

Also my A catechu gold form, and green form and another couple of vestiaras in my unheated greenhouse have kept growing during winter, whereas my Adonidias are going backwards in there. So my thoughts on these are they will take a bit of cold even down close to 1C or 2C, as long as they can get to around 20C during the day. I wouldn't think any Areca would survive frost though. Adonidia as a comparison probably requires mins in winter to not average less than 12C to look good, whereas Areca catechu at a guess can take 8 or 9C as an average  lower min provided days get to at least 20C in the day.

Just my thoughts. Interesting thread.

regards

Tyrone

[redant]

I have seen some grown in Loxahatchee fl (way out west of me). They have been in the ground for several years and look great. The owner said they look a little beat up after the winter but grow out of it quickly.

[elHoagie]

Tyrone,

I tried an A. vestiaria in my unheated greenhouse this past winter.  It survived with no problems and no spots on the leaves.  I also tried two A. merrillii, and they both died pretty quickly...

Jack

[spockvr6]

(elHoagie @ Aug. 21 2006,14:38)

QUOTE

I also tried two A. merrillii, and they both died pretty quickly...

Jack

Your January averages are 20/7 and they both died quickly?

We are not much warmer here in January (22-23C/10-11C) and they grow fine.  Its only the singular cold events that give them trouble it seems.

So, perhaps there is a fine line for these palms and they are not too tolerant of crossing it?  Or perhaps they wont tolerate more than a couple of months of cool weather?

[elHoagie]

(spockvr6 @ Aug. 21 2006,14:52)

QUOTE

(elHoagie @ Aug. 21 2006,14:38)

QUOTE

I also tried two A. merrillii, and they both died pretty quickly...

Jack

Your January averages are 20/7 and they both died quickly?

We are not much warmer here in January (22-23C/10-11C) and they grow fine.  Its only the singular cold events that give them trouble it seems.

So, perhaps there is a fine line for these palms and they are not too tolerant of crossing it?  Or perhaps they wont tolerate more than a couple of months of cool weather?

Larry,

The averages inside my greenhouse are probably more like 23/10 in the winter, which is similar to you.  But, we have these temperatures for about 4 months (Dec-Mar).  

I guess I shouldn't have said they died quickly, it actually took a while.  Both stopped growing about the first of Dec.  One rotted at the base and snapped off in April.  The other one never started growing this summer, and it finally rotted out at the base in June or July.  

So, maybe it's the several months of cool weather that killed them.  Also, we had a very cold spring this year, so the 23/10 temps inside my greenhouse lasted until the end of April.  Or maybe I just tried a couple of wimps??  Like Bo has mentioned, maybe five out of ten would have survived and I just ended up with a couple of losers?

Jack

[PalmsZA]

Hi Guys

Areca catechu, triandra and vestiaria grow well here as do Adonidia merrillii. The betel nut withstood a temp of 4c on one morning and a good few nights of between 10c and 5c. My A. merrillii took temps of 6c without a problem. 99% of winter days the temp goes above 20c, maybe thats what saved my palms.....

[Moose]

[junglegalfla]

How about an update Larry!

[Z4Devil]

To make it shortly ... your sorrows / problems I would like to have ...

The survival ... or should I better say: the growing of an Areca catechu in Germany is of another level than yours.

Our temperatures reach mostly not more than 35 °C - in the summer and only then when we´ve got luck. The other months before and after June - August are likely nippy. Not really the best conditions for this tropical lady.

As a result of all the mentioned circumstances, they in Germany buy heather mats to ensure a warm root section and growing. I. e. my Arecas are beeing sprayed several times a day and stay at least 72 hours a week within a self-generated mini-tropic-area, a closed airtight and transparent plastic-bag. And - of course - they are on a heather mat. :cool:

A result of this action you may look here:

It grows slowly, but it grows. And hope dies at last.

Best regards, Verena

Edited June 9, 2009 by Z4Devil