I bought a couple of Wodyetia x veitchia from Ortanique a couple of years ago and also, around the same time, germinated some regular Foxtail seeds. At this point, they are all about 3 feet tall in 3 g containers. I really can't see much of a difference. Is it possible to distinguish at this size? Are they all just plain Foxtails? Can you really be sure when buying the seeds, that it is actually a hybrid, since both seeds looked very similar from what I remember.

oliver....can you post a few pictures....it could help..I had 57 Wodyetia's die in the last freeze and they were about 36" tall........so I do know what that size looks like green and brown

Curt

(oliver @ Nov. 24 2007,18:04)

QUOTE

I bought a couple of Wodyetia x veitchia from Ortanique a couple of years ago and also, around the same time, germinated some regular Foxtail seeds. At this point, they are all about 3 feet tall in 3 g containers. I really can't see much of a difference. Is it possible to distinguish at this size? Are they all just plain Foxtails? Can you really be sure when buying the seeds, that it is actually a hybrid, since both seeds looked very similar from what I remember.

Can't answer you on seeds but at that stage/height, they should be very distinguishable. The foxtail leaves should be foxtailing whereas the lady will not.

Ok, here are a few pics. I labelled both as Wod x Veit. The first plant was recently re-potted to a 7 g and is a little behind in growth. It is also in a more shaded area.

The second is in a 3g and also labelled Wod x Veit. It is growing in a more exposed area

I do know a common trait is Variegation in the leaves on the Foxy lady.  I believe by 3 gal size it is fairly easy to tell the difference.

The Foxy lady also has REALLY large leaves and will make a valiant attempt to go plumose too.

Unless the parent palm was emasculated (male flowers removed) and then pollenated with the other species how could the seller know what they had?

The seed looks the same as the mother would, only the endosperm is different.  Your pictures dont give me a hint yet. I have seen many but usualy have both species and the hybrid to compare on the spot.

Again, you say the seed was sold as a hybrid? How could the seller be sure?

(Ken Johnson @ Nov. 25 2007,14:56)

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Unless the parent palm was emasculated (male flowers removed) and then pollenated with the other species how could the seller know what they had?

The seed looks the same as the mother would, only the endosperm is different.  Your pictures dont give me a hint yet. I have seen many but usualy have both species and the hybrid to compare on the spot.

Again, you say the seed was sold as a hybrid? How could the seller be sure?

Ken- we've had that a lot out here.  Advertised as such, then turns out not to be.  "The natural" ones are easy to spot.

Don't Woodyetias usually drop all the male flowers, or most of them before the female flowers reach anthesis? It would be easy enough to remove all the male flowers, then bag the inflorescence untill the female flowers are ready, then hit them with Vietchia pollen. It would be a darn sight eaiser than trying to hybridize a Jubaea or a Butia or a Queen.

Dick

(oliver @ Nov. 24 2007,18:04)

QUOTE

I bought a couple of Wodyetia x veitchia from Ortanique a couple of years ago and also, around the same time, germinated some regular Foxtail seeds. At this point, they are all about 3 feet tall in 3 g containers. I really can't see much of a difference. Is it possible to distinguish at this size? Are they all just plain Foxtails? Can you really be sure when buying the seeds, that it is actually a hybrid, since both seeds looked very similar from what I remember.

Hi Oliver,

To see someone is selling seeds, of what is meant to be "Foxy Lady"

Is disgusting, you can tell,as Bill was saying the difference

Sorry to say there all standard Foxtails, with the 'Hybrid' you can

see the difference as earl as a spike, Dark in colour, and as a one

leaf you'll see major flecks of the Veitchia on the stems and

even on there

small little petiole at that age.

Cheers Mikey.

Dick, you are correct about the male flowers falling first but I am sure that lots of pollen remains in the bract area which can pollenate the females. I am thinking that with a spray of water you could get rid of it before the females open and then hit it with pollen from the other species. This would help but if you dont cover the flowers before and after you may get some selfing.

This is more or less how hybrid coconut varieties are produced and it would be cool to try it with the VFox hybrids. The only problem would be what to do with all the offspring. Sales of VFox in the mainstream market do not support the idea of mass producing this palm. It is also notable that the verigated ones are basicly ugly to most people and so about half of the seed produced is no good.

Ken,

You are correct that after the male flowers are removed, the remaining unopened female flowers, as well as bracts, and anything around the female flowers should be sprayed and washed down with a garden hose. Allow the water to evaporate, then bag the female flowers with a light canvis bag and then tie it very tightly to keep out unwanted pollen and honey bees.

There was a thread floating around here a few weeks ago about how to do it with the cocoid palms, and the process is essentialy the same with other palms.

I'm surprised that Foxlady is not more in demand. I know they grow extreamly fast and they sure are pretty. I'm also surprised that the vearigated ones are not more popular. I though people were paying outrageous prices for the vearigated ones just a couple of years back.

I'm curious, are the males for Foxylady just any species of Veitchia, or is it a specific one, and is Wodieta always used as the female tree, or can Veitchias be used as the female tree? I hear the Foxylady seeds are sterile. That would be an advantage since you wouldn't have seedlings coming up everywhere.

I see a lot of people in Florida cut the inflorescences off their palms before they can set seeds to avoid the mess when they fall off. I've always thought the bright red seeds on Veitchias and Wodietas were half the beauty of the palms.

Dick

I'm surprised that Foxlady is not more in demand. I know they grow extreamly fast and they sure are pretty. I'm also surprised that the vearigated ones are not more popular. I though people were paying outrageous prices for the vearigated ones just a couple of years back.

Foxy lady palms are in demand here still by those who know about them, you see only the enthusiasts are aware of them and appreciate their beauty and growth patterns.

Whilst the variegated ones were fetching more dollars once, it is a known fact that they suffer greatly (burn) in any dry sun, get all shabby looking and quite frankly I wish I had two all green ones rather than one of each. I have taken great close up pics of the variegated leaflets but rarely do you see me showing the whole palm.

That's my take anyway.

I know very little about Foxtail's and Foxey Ladys, since I can't grow them, but I'm curious about a few things. I've seen plantings of Foxtails in groups or rows along streets in Florida.  Some look great and others look nutrition starved and kind of ratty. I'm wondering if the Foxylady is not more vigerous and more uniform in health than the pure Wodietas?  Also does the variegation show up in seedlings, or does the plant have to put some size on before the variegation shows up?

I suppose the competition keeps the price down in S. Fla., but maybe if a good example of a Foxy Lady were growing at the nurserys, and it was explained to potential buyers, that only about 50% are non vearigated and selection is required, maybe a higher price could be gotten. Or I suppose most buyers don't give a damn.....just gimmy, and for the lowest price.

Dick

Y'all are zeroing in on all the important points. Demand is from the enthusiast, Mom seems to be Foxy (not sure if V can be Mom), veriegation is ugly, fertilizer is necessary no matter what (in S Fl) and if they were the same price as V or W (both are the same price here) they would sell better. I have some fat ones and people like to look at them but the big money buys Copernicia and the common folks don't buy dodo.

In the mean time I am waiting for seed to set (they have aborted several times like w's) to see if they sprout.