Phoenix sylvestris in the UK?

[Mishaq]

Is anyone aware of any phoenix sylvestris growing in the UK, or any plants/seeds for sale? 

 

From my understanding this species should fare better than others in the genus in our wet winters. I would like to experiment with this palm over the coming years.

 

regards

[Geoff58]

I have seen several phoenix palms in Google Street views of London and in St. Ives, Cornwall. I assumed that they were Canary Island date palms. They looked pretty healthy.  But there is a guy posting on this website going by UK_Palms who is a member of the International Palm Society. He could probably give an opinion on whether the sylvesters are a good choice in the UK.

[Chester B]

10 hours ago, Geoff58 said:

I have seen several phoenix palms in Google Street views of London and in St. Ives, Cornwall. I assumed that they were Canary Island date palms. They looked pretty healthy.  But there is a guy posting on this website going by UK_Palms who is a member of the International Palm Society. He could probably give an opinion on whether the sylvesters are a good choice in the UK.

He’s posted dozens of pictures but I don’t ever remember seeing a sylvestris.  All CIDP and the one big theophrastii. I bet it’s too cool for a sylvestris, lack of heat can be a limiting factor for growing palms as well. 

[Ben G.]

I think Phoenix sylvestris grow just fine in coastal northern California where they don't experience much heat. So maybe it would be worth a try.

On the other hand, those coastal areas of northern California don't see many freezes either.

From what I have seen of UK palms, somewhere like Cornwall would be the place to look for someone already growing a sylvestris. They are probably just as lead Hardy, if not a little more, than CIDPs.

On the other hand, CIDP have been in widespread cultivation for longer and have been pretty well established as cool/damp tolerant. I am not sure about sylvestris' ability to take long periods of cool wet weather.

[Foxpalms]

On 9/11/2024 at 3:57 PM, Mishaq said:

Is anyone aware of any phoenix sylvestris growing in the UK, or any plants/seeds for sale? 

 

From my understanding this species should fare better than others in the genus in our wet winters. I would like to experiment with this palm over the coming years.

 

regards

I have one but it won't work where you are in Sheffield. It's actually an easy palm here in the climate of central London in the ground. I would also suggest it for areas with higher humidity than here too on the south coast and Cornwall.  It may be tolerant of wet conditions, however they are less cold hardy than canary island date palms in my opinion.  If you kept it in a pot though you could easily leave it outdoors all the time except when there's a frost. They will happily tolerate long periods of cool weather, give the palm good drainage.  I have seen them on ebay occasionally listed and it was the supposedly hardier robusta.

[Mishaq]

14 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

I have one but it won't work where you are in Sheffield. It's actually an easy palm here in the climate of central London in the ground. I would also suggest it for areas with higher humidity than here too on the south coast and Cornwall.  It may be tolerant of wet conditions, however they are less cold hardy than canary island date palms in my opinion.  If you kept it in a pot though you could easily leave it outdoors all the time except when there's a frost. They will happily tolerate long periods of cool weather, give the palm good drainage.  I have seen them on ebay occasionally listed and it was the supposedly hardier robusta.

Between sylvestris and theophrasti which do you think is a better option for sheffield? 

 

The issue with theophrasti I've found is they only really grow at a decent rate when the weather is 25⁰C and above. Which is not often in the UK, is this also the case with sylvestris?

[UK_Palms]

Biggest issue with Phoenix Sylvestris is just the availability over here. You just never see it for sale over here anywhere, even via specialist nurseries. I once brought some Phoenix Sylvestris 'Robusta' var seeds online but not a single one of them germinated. I've got some Sylvestis x something hybrid seedlings via the EPS. Think it is Sylvestris x Theophrastii.

I have seen it listed only once on a UK based palm supplier website and it was pretty much out of stock from the get-go. I bet they probably only got a few small ones imported, if they even arrived and made it to sale. Even around the rest of Europe Sylvestris just isn't really that common. Perhaps a few mature specimens in Italy, Greece, Turkey etc.

You would be hard pressed to see one in Spain or France. It's all CIDP and Dacty's across western Europe really. Again maybe a few large Sylvestis specimens and the odd ones in the exotics trade, but certainly few enough that it effects our chances here in the UK all that more. It's all Canariensis coming across from Spain, France, Italy and Dutch greenhouses. Cheaper. Easier.

The one and only proper example of Sylvestris in the UK that I know of is at Tremenheere Sculpture Gardens near Penzance in Cornwall. I photographed it in August 2022, over 2 years ago now. It's probably looking even better now. I think it went in around 2012-2013. It survived the 2018 BFTE event when it maybe saw -5C / 23F. It's bigger and will be able to take more cold even now, in the event we had a 2010 or 1987 style event. Sylvestris would do well in London, if people can get them.

You will certainly be able to walk underneath this one now...