planting question regarding dypsis decaryi

[gsn]

I have a  newbie question about planting a triangle palm.

I intend to put it at the corner of a 2 story house..about 4 or 5 feet from the corner.

Basically it has 3 flat sides,with the petoles going out at 3 angles,more or less.

My question is will these leaf bases and flat sides stay in plane,or do they rotate as the palm grows?

It is just strating to form a trunk.

My plan was to put 1 of the flat sides directly across from the corner,so 1 side would go to the left of the corner ,the oher to the right,and the third straight out from the corner.

Just checking with the experts before putting it in the ground.

Thanks for any responses.

[paulgila]

the ones i've seen seem to stay in the same plane.

[quaman58]

They stay in the same plane--sort of.... 4 or 5 feet is an absolute minimum I would think for any sizable palm. I just had to move one a few months back that I had planted too close to a fence; what a joy that was.

Bret

[glbower]

MIne's been in the ground 7 years and has about 4 feet of trunk. The three planes haven't changed a bit. I know because two of the planes have always pointed right at the trunks of nearby palms. Perfect 120 degree angles. As they mature, however, each frond does get a little twist on the end.

[DoomsDave]

welcome gsn!

Nice to see ya!

As everyone's noted, D. decaryi keep their planes.

Also, keep them a bit on the dry side -- don't keep them too wet or they'll rot and fall over on the boss when he comes to visit.

Seriously.

So, anyway, tell us more about your garden, and show us more pictures.

dave

[Fred Zone 10A]

Here's a photo of a triangle (and Sacha the wonder pointer) that I planted last year right behind my house.  Five feet of clearance should be plenty once they have some trunk.  Their leaves stay pretty much in the same plane.

One of my very favorite palms.  I have three and wish I had more.

Dave is right about not overwatering triangles.  You'll notice there is no watering basin like I have around many of my other palms.  They like adequate water, but not too much.  Getting flooded is the kiss of death.

[summerdaze]

Does anyone have information as to how wild populations of Triangle Palms orient themselves according to the sun and direction? Do the palms all orient themselves the same way or do they all grow differently regarding the alignment of the specific "planes" of foliage? Since presumably the alignment of the foliage stays the same throughout the life of the palm. Mine has not changed from the original position it was planted.   Mike

[Patrick]

good question!

[gsn]

Thanks everyone for the info regarding the planes of the palm leafs.

I do have one other question regarding a triangle palm.

Everything I have read say this palm needs full sun,if so I might have to rethink where I am going to put it.The location I intended only receives morning sun. By about 12:00- 12:30 that corner of the house is in full shade.

Does anyone have any experience as to how this palm does in AM only sun?

thanks

[DoomsDave]

Listen to Fred!

I planted about five of them at my dive, in clay soil, overwatered them, ALL OF THEM DIED in about six months, I was heartbroken.  

dave

[quaman58]

That's the reason I moved one of mine. While it certainly did not seem to be in imminant danger, the crown held fewer leaves, and was much less "full" than another planted in full sun some 25 feet away. Granted, could be just different individuals, but I figured I'd move while it was movable. As an interesting side note, it grew about 6 inches of trunk in the year and a half it was there. (Reaching?) The really robust one just keeps getting a bigger and beautifully dense crown, but has not felt the need to begin trunking apparently. Here's an image I posted a while back, sorry for the repeat...

Bret

[DoomsDave]

Bret!

It's bitchen!

They love my hideous Death Camp pots.

They hate my hideous Death Camp clay soil in the ground!

dave

[quaman58]

Dave, my next door neighbor lost his this year. It grew well for a few years and then, as you put it--poof! So while it was struggling to hang on, we make a game plan to dig a trench around it, complete with a moat to MAKE SURE it was getting enough water. It now resides in molecular form at the Miramar compost pile...

Bret

[DoomsDave]

Bret:

These guys don't like too much water.

They really like it better dry, but not TOO dry.

I had a whole pile of 'em in pots and the dirt turned from humus to gravel and sand, and they LOVED IT.  Out in full blistering sun, and they LOVED it.  

Put 'em in the clay, au reviour or however you spell it.  They died like Bugsy Seigel shot full of holes.  Almost that fast.

Got one big one left, along with some babies, gonna plant 'em on my slope.

Pray for me . . . .

dave

[MattyB]

Bret, that is one of the best looking triangles I've seen.  I want one now.

[DoomsDave]

I want something.  

Whoa!  Even a triangle . . .

dave

[Fred Zone 10A]

  Quote

au reviour or however you spell it

Dave,

It's "Au revoir."

There's a Dypsis decaryi in filtered light at the UCLA Botanical Garden.  The leaves are stretched and it doesn't grow very fast.  I think the only reason it is doing OK is it has been neglected (like much else there).

To look and grow their best triangles need to be in full sun with fast drainage.

Friends of mine own a nursery where they field grow them in rows just like corn.  That's where two of mine came from.  For several years triangles were out of fashion and it was hard to sell them.  Now they are hot and my friends' hundreds of triangles (with up to five feet of trunk) have been dug out, planted in 36 inch boxes and sold.

The triangle next to Sacha in the photo was one of the smallest of their crop and the only one that would fit in a 30" box.  If it had been any larger it would have required a crane to lift it over my house.  I'm told that now it is the ground it will fatten up.

[gsn]

Guys ,

Thanks for all the valuable infomation.

It definately needs to find a different place in the yard,since your all telling me full sun!

Bret,

Is the pic, of the one you planted in full sun?

Beautiful plam ,by the way very nicely grown.

Dave,

Did you loose the palms in the winter or summer from overwatering?

Not much of a garden yet unfortunately.

Not to much room on this little piece of land the(developer) calls a lot.

But i do love palm trees, and am trying to put a few different species on the 10 square feet I have.  ::

Fred,

Thanks for the info.

Also a very nice  decaryi,that was field grown?

Thanks for the tip regarding water.

I will watch how much it gets.

But something tells me my florida sand won't hold moisture like your californian clay?

But will monitor the water,especially durning the colder winter months.

[glbower]

My first attempt to post a photo and it will probably fail. You'd never know taking photos is part of my job. In any event, here should be a pic of my triangle, planted in full sun in 1999, showing just a hint of trunk at the time. I've pretty much ignored it, and it's doing fine.

A little one I planted at the same time near a downspout expired during it's first Florida rainy season. I've seen the same thing happen to others planted in swales. They definitely don't like too much water.

[Jeff Searle]

Nice speciman, out in the full sun, where it belongs. Zamia to the left looks good also.

[glbower]

I'd really like to dig up those two zamias to make room for more palms, but the unusual shape of the D. decaryi is best enjoyed when not obscured by other foliage. Any ideas for palms that would work in the general vicinity? I have a beautiful Roystonia regia with about 20 feet of wood to the right and a just-planted 12-foot Caryota urens (I think) to the left, both 10 to 15 feet away? Here's a pic from the other side.

[quaman58]

gsn,

Full sun until maybe 3:00 PM depending on time of year, then it gets shaded by Acacias & my neighbor's (un-kempt) junk. It's on a hillside which gives it the drainage it wants, I guess. Dumb luck on my part.

Good luck with it!!

Bret

[Fred Zone 10A]

  Quote

I'd really like to dig up those two zamias to make room for more palms

The Zamias look marvelous next to the triangle.  I wouldn't touch them.

[glbower]

They do all have that slightly Jurassic look, right at home in Jurassic Park.

[gsn]

glbower

Very nice!

You guys have me somewhat concerned about it getting to much water.

Quick question,does that palm recieve any irrigation other than rainfall?

Where I have finally decided to plant it in the yard, it will recieve irrigation from the lawn sprinkler system.

I usually only water 2 times a week ,but with what everyone is saying, will this palm get to much water when I water the st.augustine lawn twice a week?

I didn't think it was going to be quite so complicated when I purchased this palm! Oh well I really like the palm and want to do everything possible to take the best care of it.

I  appreciate everyones imput,thanks

[Fred Zone 10A]

gsn,

Where are you located (FL or CA)?

If it's CA, a triangle would not survive on just rain.  I have either a bubbler or sprinkler head watering mine two to three times a week during our dry season (March through October).   As long as there's no watering basin or depression around the trunk, that seems to about the right amount of water.  During the summer I give supplemental watering (a BIG drink) a couple of times a week to some of my thirstier palms (e.g., Caryotas and majesties), but NEVER to the triangles.

If you are in FL and it would get rain plus supplemental watering, you may wish to plant it slightly higher than the surrounding garden (e.g., on a small mound) to improve drainage.  I hope the FL members can comment on this.

[glbower]

Mine gets no more than a 15 minute light sprinkle once a week from my automatic sprinkling system during our winter dry season, when we can go months without rain  By May or June, it might be once every 5 days, and the sun is pretty brutal by then.

[gsn]

Fred,

I'm in florida,sorry I put that info in my signature now,didn't realize i could do that.

Anyway I'm used to watering,queens, foxtails,and majesties,too.Which I have found you can't over water,at least in my experience. Thanks for taking the time for the info.

glbower,

Quick question,you have that very near a large royal,is it on a different sprinkler,as I always thought royals were real water hogs? Was wondering how you kept the water off the triangle, and still gave the royal enough water?

Anyway with all of your advice I will watch closely how much water this palm gets.

[DoomsDave]

glbower!

Won't you come out tonight, come out tonight . . .

Oh, yowza, you DID!

Nice garden, nice dive, nice hood.  

Nice to meet you!

dave

[DoomsDave]

(gsn @ Aug. 22 2006,19:32)

QUOTE

Dave,

Did you loose the palms in the winter or summer from overwatering?

Not much of a garden yet unfortunately.

Not to much room on this little piece of land the(developer) calls a lot.

But i do love palm trees, and am trying to put a few different species on the 10 square feet I have.  ::

Don't lose too much many from overwatering.  D. decaryi was one.  

When I lose a palm, it's usually because:

(1) the Satan Annie wind dries it out;

(2) I step on it (if it's small)

(3) It gets smothered by something aggressive near it.

(4) I forget to water it, especially in a pot full of sand and gravel.

dave

[DoomsDave]

(Fred Zone 10A @ Aug. 22 2006,11:44)

QUOTE

  Quote

au reviour or however you spell it

Dave,

It's "Au revoir."

Danke Schoen, Fred!

Meine Francozich ist nicht gut . . . . .

(Neither, come to think of it, is my Deutsch!)

dave (English-only . . . .)

[SunnyFl]

(Dave from So-Cal @ Aug. 23 2006,23:38)

QUOTE

(2) I step on it (if it's small)

Maybe this has something to do with all those shoes left near the palms.  

[Fred Zone 10A]

  Quote

Meine Francozich ist nicht gut . . . . .

Bitte schön, aber das Wort ist "Französisch."

[DoomsDave]

(Fred Zone 10A @ Aug. 24 2006,00:13)

QUOTE

  Quote

Meine Francozich ist nicht gut . . . . .

Bitte schön, aber das Wort ist "Französisch."

Viele dank!

[Fred Zone 10A]

Triangle Fans,

Here's a photo I took this morning on a quick visit to one of my favorite palm nurseries in northern San Diego County.  The pic shows the remaining triangles in a field that once held several hundred.  My triangle (photo above) came from this group.

The nursery owner told me these palms are on a drip and get 13 minutes of water twice a week.

These last triangles have already been sold and are just waiting for the buyer (a retail nursery) to come dig them up and box them for sale.

[DoomsDave]

Fred!

Hmm.  That's not much water.

When I look at those palms, I think of the Follies Brassiere, in 'Vegas . . . . .

(All those feathery thangs' stickin' up on end.)

dave

[Fred Zone 10A]

Just above the field shown in my previous post there's a road and a fence line.  A number of years ago they dug an order of triangles and three were left over.  They were planted along the fence line between queen palms.

What I find interesting is that the leftovers have gotten much fatter than the triangles still in the field.  The owner tells me the palms shown in this photo are not on a drip line.  He waters them when he remembers.  So these are getting substantially less water than those still in the field.

I think the leftovers are fatter because they get more light.  Although you can't tell from the photo, the ones in the field were planted so close together that you couldn't walk between the rows.  That necessarily limited the amount of sunlight each palm got.  The proof of that hypothesis would be to look at the girth of the palms on the end row, but those were the most accessible and the first to be dug.

[BigFrond]

(Fred Zone 10A @ Aug. 25 2006,14:24)

QUOTE

Just above the field shown in my previous post there's a road and a fence line.  A number of years ago they dug an order of triangles and three were left over.  They were planted along the fence line between queen palms.

What I find interesting is that the leftovers have gotten much fatter than the triangles still in the field.  The owner tells me the palms shown in this photo are not on a drip line.  He waters them when he remembers.  So these are getting substantially less water than those still in the field.

I think the leftovers are fatter because they get more light.  Although you can't tell from the photo, the ones in the field were planted so close together that you couldn't walk between the rows.  That necessarily limited the amount of sunlight each palm got.  The proof of that hypothesis would be to look at the girth of the palms on the end row, but those were the most accessible and the first to be dug.

They need to move the queens elsewhere.  They are just in the way.

[Fred Zone 10A]

All of these palms will eventually be dug up and sold.

[Dave-Vero]

In Melbourne, Fla., there's a happy-looking pair of rather tall Triangles flanking a carport on the south side of Melbourne Ave., E, just southwest of the old downtown (and State Road 192).  The house is on high ground and its yard has plenty of oaks, so my best guess is that the palms don't get much irrigation, don't have to sit in the water, and are in partial shade.  

You might ask on the Central Florida Palm and Cycad Society forum or the 2ndlight.com gardening forum.