Ants: friends or foes?

[Than]

I read somewhere that ants can kill trees when they build their nests around their roots because they create space between the soil and the roots and the tree cannot absorb enough water. Is it true? Has anyone had such problems? I thought they would rather benefit the plants by aerating the soil but now I don't know.

[PalmsInBaltimore]

I've never heard of an ant nest stopping roots absorbing water. Besides, plants almost always are growing new roots or developing existing ones.

[Rivera]

I've had some issues with Argentine ant nests in my rock gardens. They seem to like the high and dry grit pockets between the larger stones, which is also where I plant various Dudleya species. While generally not too bothered, Dudleya are relatively shallow-rooted and I think the ant nests have contributed to excessive dehydration at times when they remove too much sand beneath the plants. It's been more of an issue with vulnerable seedling-sized Dudleya.

I don't know of ant nests bothering a tree of any substantial size though. Pocket gophers are the usual subterranean trouble-makers here. 

[Than]

Thank you guys. I was also surprised when I watched that video. I guess it was just bs

[Darold Petty]

Argentine ants foster and farm mealybugs and scale.  They also displace native ant species.   They nest in the bark medium of my potted orchid plants.  I respond strongly with pesticides at the first evidence of their presence within my greenhouse, but I never use pesticides outdoors.

[palmnut-fry]

I had a infestation that i could not identify this year! I looked online for i.d. but to no avail but whatever species these are, they are not a biting or stinging sort. They made a super highway amongst the fibrous trunk of my Sabal bermudana and surrounding rocks so i used an organic plant-based insecticide that, after several applications, did the trick. They are long gone but whatever they are, they are rampant and scurry along very rapidly! Crazy ants?

[Silas_Sancona]

5 hours ago, PalmsInBaltimore said:

I've never heard of an ant nest stopping roots absorbing water. Besides, plants almost always are growing new roots or developing existing ones.

 

4 hours ago, Rivera said:

I've had some issues with Argentine ant nests in my rock gardens. They seem to like the high and dry grit pockets between the larger stones, which is also where I plant various Dudleya species. While generally not too bothered, Dudleya are relatively shallow-rooted and I think the ant nests have contributed to excessive dehydration at times when they remove too much sand beneath the plants. It's been more of an issue with vulnerable seedling-sized Dudleya.

I don't know of ant nests bothering a tree of any substantial size though. Pocket gophers are the usual subterranean trouble-makers here. 

If the presence of Ants were detrimental to trees..or any plant, ..there would be no plants, because the ants would have killed them all / eaten all their roots, etc..

Is true that some ants ..Atta sp. for instance will cut up / move foliage to underground nests where they farm specific soil dwelling Fungi, or other sps that live either inside various plants ( Look up " Ant Plants " ) And other groups of Ants that live in hollow thorns of various Acacia / Vachellia  sps / other superficial features certain plants provide for them.

In both cases, Ants  ..N' plants..  benefit because plants / plant parts provide shelter ..and a food source ( certain groups of Legumes for instance produce glands at the base of leaf petioles that produce a sugary, nectar -like, or fatty substance for the Ants. ( Ants are often divided into groups ..some preferring sugar,  others preferring fats )

Ants in tern deter insects ( and other critters ..inc. people ) that would consume the sap, fruits, and/ or foliage of X plant species.. 

Only Ants i've ever noticed that can cause some deg of trouble ..mainly consumption of seeds / damaging fruit / killing really tender seedlings would be  Red Imported Fire Ants, Big - Headed Ants, and ..Argentine Ants which can also damage fruit / seeds, but never seemed to be a major issue , unless you didn't harvest and left ripe fruit to rot below X fruit tree.

Big Headed Ants are more of a annoyance when it comes to potted plants, capable of mining so much soil from pots, which can cause something to dry out,  rather than causing actual damage ..IE: consumption of roots / bark / cambium, etc. 

Overall, majority  of the damage they cause, compared to say Gophers / other rodents that can damage plants,  is minimal and the rabid fear of ants is more of a concern than something to fear..

Minimal spraying / placement of bait traps to keep them out of the house?  That makes sense..  Spraying anywhere else ..Overkill, based on overblown fear fanned by pesticide companies.

Ants are like the  Mike & Ike  candy of the insect world and pretty much anything bigger than them will eat them, Yes, even Fire Ants.. 

Encourage the " ant eaters ", and ants won't cause much trouble..  Rabid spraying of everything just throws everything out of balance ..which means more ants..  Simple as that.

[sonoranfans]

ants love dry soil for nesting and that may mean your palm will be unhappy.if there is a nest.  In florida, we see ant nests appear in sandy soil until the wet season, then they seem to vanish.  I dont think the ants are attacking the palm but an established nest wouldn't be there if the soil was moist and well irrigated.  Sand is very tough to keep moist without a substantial ammendment.  

[flplantguy]

My yard is full of ants and my only issue is some farming mealybugs on a copperleaf, they ignore the palms completely. I have a bunch of species that seem to behave but i need to look and see of those are Argentine ants on the copperleaf.  In the house im getting one small species i dont know the ID on, but if i let the yard stay in balance its far less issues than in largo fully developed.  The diveristy and food out there keeps them in balance, but in a controled environment i could see them being an issue that kills on occasion when its missed like a greenhouse. 

[Rivera]

27 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Encourage the " ant eaters ", and ants won't cause much trouble.. 

What are the ant eaters (just Argentine ants in my case)?

Certainly we have lots of spiders in the yard. 

[Silas_Sancona]

7 minutes ago, Rivera said:

What are the ant eaters (just Argentine ants in my case)?

Certainly we have lots of spiders in the yard. 

Besides Spiders:  Birds, Frogs / Toads, Lizards ( Horned Lizards esp. though most will eat them ) some Snakes  ..Various parasitic wasps / certain flies, Viruses and Fungi..   ..Even other Ants..  In Bradenton, the neighborhood i lived in was one of a few where the Fire Ants had been completely displaced by Big Heated Ants, and possibly a couple other non native sps which were establishing themselves locally... 

Good article for those w/ Red Fire Ant issues: https://ant-pests.extension.org/natural-enemies-of-fire-ants/

Here, native black Fire Ants are kept in check by ..pretty much everything else.  Same w/ the Harvester Ants, though you really don't see those in neighborhoods far removed from open desert.


 Seeing there are some recent observations of Argentines here as well.
 

[PalmsInBaltimore]

There are over 15,000 species of ants. Seems feasible that somewhere in there you'll find dozens or even hundreds of species that could be harmful to our gardens, but I feel like you'd have to live in the Amazon rainforest or something like that.

But like mentioned above, the most aggressive ants tend to eat other ants (there is at least one species of ant that even "enslaves" other ants because it has evolved to be unable to get food any other way -- hard to generalize anything about these insects) or at least don't seem to eat roots.

Ants are truly fascinating, and the benefits they provide to your garden ecosystem far outweigh the annoyance of seeing them crawl around sometimes. I agree on keeping them out of the house, but outdoors they are very important.

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, PalmsInBaltimore said:

There are over 15,000 species of ants. Seems feasible that somewhere in there you'll find dozens or even hundreds of species that could be harmful to our gardens, but I feel like you'd have to live in the Amazon rainforest or something like that.

But like mentioned above, the most aggressive ants tend to eat other ants (there is at least one species of ant that even "enslaves" other ants because it has evolved to be unable to get food any other way -- hard to generalize anything about these insects) or at least don't seem to eat roots.

Ants are truly fascinating, and the benefits they provide to your garden ecosystem far outweigh the annoyance of seeing them crawl around sometimes. I agree on keeping them out of the house, but outdoors they are very important.

While i'm sure the diversity is likely higher there, don't need to travel to the Amazon to see a surprising diversity of Ants..

  Aside from the introduced ones, and others you'd anticipate encountering in arid environments,  Both types of " Leafcutter " Ants ..Atta mexicana, and Acromyrmex versicolor   occur in the state.. Both can be slightly annoying at times when caught cutting up / transporting leaves and/or flowers..

While Atta mexicana  ..the leafcutter many people see roaming forest floors in videos filmed in more tropical areas of S. Mexico and Cen. America had been present near Organ pipe Nat. Monument for decades,  appears to be creeping further north toward Tucson since crossing the " border " near Nogales a couple decades ago. 

Texas has a separate Atta sp.  common in the southern / eastern part of the state that many folks get a little too worried over.

Acromyrmex versicolor,  our much more common leafcutter, is currently being observed in increasing #'s west of the CO. River in S.E. CA..

We also have -at least- 3 sps. of " Twig " Ants, not including the same sp. common in FL ( Graceful Twig Ant ) though it's range is close enough in N.W. Mex. that it will likely turn up here soon, if it isn't present already.. Rarely seen unless doing some tree trimming.. Not dangerous but can give a decent  ..but typically short - lived..  sting when caught between the collar of one's shirt and skin..


All that said, it may be the arrival of another " tropical " Ant species that gets a lot of attention  if ..or when.. it shows up north of Mexico  ..here, or in S. TX.

Eciton burchellii,  the most common sp of Army Ant in both hemispheres of the Americas, ...Same sp. one sees roaming tropical forest floors in many films from such areas..  has apparently been expanding it's range north in Mexico,  w/ recent observations from both Sonora ( Alamos: ..1 confirmed,  1 awaiting confirmation ) and from the mountains near Ciudad Victoria, N.W. of Tampico.

Don't think they sting but some of the workers have impressively large mandibles that can pierce skin.. 

[Phoenikakias]

8 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Besides Spiders:  Birds, Frogs / Toads, Lizards ( Horned Lizards esp. though most will eat them ) some Snakes  ..

Here, native black Fire Ants are kept in check by ..pretty much everything else.  
 

This is another reason for considering stray cats a plague!

[Than]

2 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

This is another reason for considering stray cats a plague!

You must start spaying and neutering!

[Silas_Sancona]

15 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

This is another reason for considering stray cats a plague!

Some may cringe at this, but i agree that Feral Cats ..any feral animal really.. but cats esp.  are a much more serious issue than Ants ..or most other non- pathogen carrying  " bad " bugs can be..  That's just reality,  Even if some don't want to acknowledge it.. 

Typhus, Rabies, Toxoplasmosis, Which more recent research seems to be suggesting may be a bigger concern to human health than had been assumed ...various other diseases they can transmit to both domestic and native animals / humans.. List of minuses, as it relates to allowing the issue to go unresolved, is far greater than simply ignoring it.

Aside from human control, nature can do a decent job at balancing things, at least in certain areas ..Raptors, Owls, ..Coyote or Fox ..and the " bigger " cats like Jaguar, Cougar, and / or Bobcats will pick off feral cats where the wild critters have easier access to the feral ones.

Wouldn't be shocked to hear of Roadrunners / bigger lizards here also snagging a young kitten or two.

What's kind of surprising, at the house at least, while the neighborhood cats do take down their fair share of birds ..Mainly Doves it seems..  Still plenty of birds ..and Lizards.. around.   Gophers too, despite the cats, which seem to have become too lazy to pursue the Gophers remaining in our area.

My dog also does a good job of  keeping the neighbor's cat circus out of the yard as well.

13 hours ago, Than said:

You must start spaying and neutering!

While the intention is good, and less brutal than some alternatives,  TNR techniques  don't always succeed in reducing colonies, esp. if the issue is widespread in an area..  Yes, you'll reduce,  as older cats are lost / less kittens are produced,  but, unless you fixed every feral within ..10, 20 20+ miles of X neighborhood, you can have intact cats that move in and replace the missing ones, thus the potential of starting the cycle again..

TNR won't immediately reduce the threat to indigenous wildlife either.

Have been reading articles related to an easier to implement sterilization technique involving gene editing.. A single shot given that renders female cats sterile for life..  No doubt this could be used on Male ferals as well.  Would seem to be a far more cost effective control measure than the individual expense involved in Spaying / Neutering / post surgery care  ..if it proves it's worth ( being studied currently )

This angle on colony reduction / elimination obviously won't reduce immediate threats to wildlife either however.

Overall, while some may balk at it, trapping may be necessary in some cases / places.. Islands for instance.  That's just the way it is.


 No a cat fan  at all,  but .. for those who like em',  enjoy em..   That said, be a responsible Cat owner keep them in  your  yard.  Emphasize: YOUR  yard.   Simple as that.

Guarantee, neighbor(s) would do the same if my dog kept showing up in their yard / was allowed to roam free around the neighborhood.  Feral Cats shouldn't be treated any different, for any reason


Back to Ants...
 

[PalmCode]

I don't like them. They farm Aphids, build nests in potted plants decreasing soil quality and seen them attack Earthworms I've put in potting soil...

Ants are all over my Hedyscepe at the moment. Chewing away and leaving these brown spots. Not sure what they are.
 

[Merlyn]

The only ant problems I've had in my yard are:

• A fire ant nest that popped up around a small agave.  The agave was only about 4" diameter and got completely engulfed by the top of the nest, and was rotting away before I killed the ants and used a blower and brush to clean up the area around it. 
• Occasional problems with ants "farming" aphids or bugs on palms and bamboo.  One of my two Magnolia trees was looking really ratty before I noticed the black sooty mold and streams of small black ants wandering all over.  A systemic for the scale and aphids, and bait for the ants took care of it.
• Fire ants popping up in the middle of grassy areas where I walk.  My neighbor's sister came down to visit from Michigan a couple of years ago, walked out into their backyard, was swarmed by fire ants and died from anaphylactic shock.  I already hated them before he told me about that.  So I have no tolerance for invasive and potentially deadly pests.  Regular ants I leave alone unless they start farming aphids.