Watering Pygmy Date Palms in 110-125 degree weather

[Tom in Havasu]

Hello all,

This is a great group and I'm learning a lot so far.  I have a dilema....how much is the right amount of water for a Pygmy Date Palm in super not weather.

I have three groups of Pygmy Date Palms all planted about three+ years ago and doing great. All get full sun from dawn to 2-3pm, every day.  Each group is watered separately with a drip system where each group of trees (groups of three or four separate trunks of 3" to 8" trunk diameter) are watered twice a day by one bubbler head, 15 minutes, once at 4am and then again at 9pm.   I dug three in deep motes around the base of the trees and covered them with gravel, so the entire root base should get flooded allowing even watering around the root base. The Bubbler heads supposedly flow up to 30 gallons an hour "per the package", I've not verified the actual flow rate but they are fed by a 3/4" line then separately to drip heads off .  We are seeing very high temperatures of 110 to 125 in Lake Havasu AZ. They had no issues until I had the irrigation valve fail for a few weeks when I wasn't there, thats been replaced. 

All the trees got brownish black leaves on the ends, most I have cut off. The centers of all but one of the trunks, are doing fairly well with new growth coming from the centers. Only one seems to still have some limited growth coming from the center and doesn't look like the others.  I'm hoping it survives.

I now need some solid recommendations on how much to water, during the super hot months from July through September,  I should be doing?

I've read in this group that its pretty hard go overwater these palm because their native habitat is at the edges of rivers and lakes so they are always wet?  Other sites I read said give minimal water every three days, and don't over water because it rots the roots.

Thanks in advance!

[PalmsInBaltimore]

Could we get some close-ups of the brownish black leaftips? From the photo above they look like they're doing fine -- dark green leaves aplenty. 

Sounds like they're receiving enough water. It is hard to overwater. The one that is not growing is possibly dormant from the super high heat or it's struggling to compete with its neighbor. They look great in the picture you posted though. Most people on here have the problem of their pygmy dates shrivelling up into yellow corn cobs when it's that hot

[Tom in Havasu]

These are photos taken this morning. The third photo has the one I'm most concerned about. There is some green coming out of the base,  but not much. The others are growing quite well. I've trimmed back most of the dead fronds so the trunks aren't giving resources to areas less in need. 

 

Glad to see your comment on watering. These are the first Palms I've taken care of, usually they are 95% green and grow quite well. I've recently had two Orbit irrigation valves fail, so I've pulled those out of my system. 

 

[PalmsInBaltimore]

It looks like when the system failed a few weeks ago they got roasted. The third one does look concerning. 
 

by the way, palms are very good at moving around nutrients stored in their stems and leaves to the parts of the plant where they are needed so there’s no need to cut off dead fronds to encourage nutrients to go elsewhere. That works well with other plants but with palms they actually eat their older leaves and so it’s best to trim only the completely dried out ones unless the palm is very mature and thriving

[Harry’s Palms]

In your area , this time of the year , I would be watering them frequently  as temperatures climb. I know they do ok there but you have to water them all the time in order for them to survive. Keep an eye on the center where the spear comes out and make sure to check for new growth as they recover from their drought. Harry

[Tom in Havasu]

Thank you for the comments!  Its interesting to hear about nutrients and the tree cutting off dead fronds. I noticed something yesterday and was wondering that because there was a definite line at the base of a frond where it instantly went brown from green.

Any recommendations on watering times?

[Bill H2DB]

   These palms are Single trunked in real life .    They have been forced to impede each other , and what you are seeing is a common result of that . 

    Each palm wants to spread out its roots symmetrically , but are crowded out by their fellow prisoners . 

 

[Jim in Los Altos]

It’s nearly impossible to overwater Pygmy Date palms even in cooler climates. The rock mulch you have is only making matters worse since it gets very hot in the sun. Wood mulch would be better but, if the rock stays, water these palms daily in the summer heat. They are multiples so there is some competition for water and nutrients but, if water and food are sufficient, they can flourish. 

[Tom in Havasu]

Really good to know on watering.  Yeah bark would be better but it would blow away, we get some big winds. I'll keep my watering at the times I have and see if the one tree comes back.

Interesting that they compete for nutriends. On palms I have in my back yard I have bubblers watering on both sides of the root ball to makes sure there was plenty of water being distributed, so I will do that in the front yard also.   You have triggered another thought though that probably proves your comment....my largest palms for sure has the water source directly above its root base, and that may be one reason its the tallest if they compete,  and I'm guessing that my tallest ones in each group have the bubblers right next to their root base.   

All three groups have motes that are built around the bases, 3" deep (see picture),  the groups may not get enough water flow to circulate and fill the entire mote so the water may not be reaching the entire rootball, therefore flooding down to the roots. I'll do some checking on that and see how that is working.

Below is a picture of one of the groups of three, the red circle is the circumfurance of the mote, the sold red dot represents my bubbler. The motes are covered with gravel so when they start to flood the mote the water goes around the tree group within the boundry of the mote. I also dig a small pit the size of a tennis ball right at the base of the bubblers and drop in time release fertilizer,  so the theory is the water runs over the fertilizer, then it flows all the way around the mote and saturates into the rootball.  If the bubbler is not outputting enough water, it may saturate into the ground before it travels all the way around the mote and rootball.  I think I will experiment with a higher flow bubblers to insure that flow around the mote. The ground/dirt is very very porous. 

[MJSanDiego]

We have seen this time and time again. Can you plant and maintain a pygmy date palm in the low deserts? Sure you can. Should you? No. It's too far outside the range of it's ideal habitat. You would have great success with another slow growing small palm that can take 115 degrees with no humidity, no burning fronds, truly drought tolerant, cold tolerant and wind tolerant. Chamaerops Humilis

[Tom in Havasu]

That's interesting. I'll look into those palms you suggest. Thank you. So far these have done pretty well, they've been there for 3 ish years and if I had not had the irrigation valve issue I don't think I'd be in this position. I have upgraded all of my irrigation valves away from Orbit (three have failed) and all were brand new within the last 1-3 years,  now using Rain Bird. 

[ahosey01]

On 8/14/2024 at 1:43 PM, Tom in Havasu said:

That's interesting. I'll look into those palms you suggest. Thank you. So far these have done pretty well, they've been there for 3 ish years and if I had not had the irrigation valve issue I don't think I'd be in this position. I have upgraded all of my irrigation valves away from Orbit (three have failed) and all were brand new within the last 1-3 years,  now using Rain Bird. 

Any update?

I'm with @Jim in Los Altos, you could probably water this all day every day in Havasu from late May to mid Sep and they wouldn't rot or have any problems.  Potential for chlorosis, though, so you could always find an Arizona's Best iron supplement.

Would love to see pics now.

[Roger T.]

Will pigmy date palms always get sun burned in Phoenix  Arizona, area?

[aztropic]

5 hours ago, Roger T. said:

Will pigmy date palms always get sun burned in Phoenix  Arizona, area?

If they receive all day/afternoon summer sun, yes,they will.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[Rubberboots]

@Roger T. they can take some heat....you gotta water and feed them...105° summers here average.

[aztropic]

Over the years,I've noticed most palms/plants are fine up to 110F under desert conditions; showing little to no damage. So far this year,we've had about 3 weeks consistent of 110 - 118F temps in the Phoenix area (2 days hit 118) and there are definitely a lot of yellow palm fronds with some burning,even with daily waterings. Desert adapted palms always fare the best under our extremely hot summers.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[Tom in Havasu]

Since I started the original post two of the trunks have died, the rest of them are doing very well, but temps seem to have stayed lower than last summer, though the last week has been a bit hotter, 110-115 vs around 100. I kept the watering schedule on a daily basis at 5am in the morning since june but it was everyother day until then and the palms did very well. It very interesting to see these palms grow vs some trees we planted last summer.  The trees seemed to be dieing, then in the last two months they have grown massively. They must have been trying to acclimate to their new home. 

[Rubberboots]

1 hour ago, Tom in Havasu said:

Since I started the original post two of the trunks have died, the rest of them are doing very well, but temps seem to have stayed lower than last summer, though the last week has been a bit hotter, 110-115 vs around 100. I kept the watering schedule on a daily basis at 5am in the morning since june but it was everyother day until then and the palms did very well. It very interesting to see these palms grow vs some trees we planted last summer.  The trees seemed to be dieing, then in the last two months they have grown massively. They must have been trying to acclimate to their new home. 

@Tom in Havasu any recent photos and names of the ones doing well?

[Rubberboots]

13 hours ago, aztropic said:

Over the years,I've noticed most palms/plants are fine up to 110F under desert conditions; showing little to no damage. So far this year,we've had about 3 weeks consistent of 110 - 118F temps in the Phoenix area (2 days hit 118) and there are definitely a lot of yellow palm fronds with some burning,even with daily waterings. Desert adapted palms always fare the best under our extremely hot summers.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

@aztropic how are the Buccaneers looking...photos in that heat currently?

[Rubberboots]

@Tom in Havasu @Roger T. Here is one of my singles with a fresh haircut 🤪🥵 100° today🦾🤙

[Tom in Havasu]

4 hours ago, Rubberboots said:

@Tom in Havasu any recent photos and names of the ones doing well?

[Rubberboots]

32 minutes ago, Tom in Havasu said:

Looking good sir🤘🏿

[Rubberboots]

On 8/11/2024 at 5:38 PM, Tom in Havasu said:

Really good to know on watering.  Yeah bark would be better but it would blow away, we get some big winds. I'll keep my watering at the times I have and see if the one tree comes back.

Interesting that they compete for nutriends. On palms I have in my back yard I have bubblers watering on both sides of the root ball to makes sure there was plenty of water being distributed, so I will do that in the front yard also.   You have triggered another thought though that probably proves your comment....my largest palms for sure has the water source directly above its root base, and that may be one reason its the tallest if they compete,  and I'm guessing that my tallest ones in each group have the bubblers right next to their root base.   

All three groups have motes that are built around the bases, 3" deep (see picture),  the groups may not get enough water flow to circulate and fill the entire mote so the water may not be reaching the entire rootball, therefore flooding down to the roots. I'll do some checking on that and see how that is working.

Below is a picture of one of the groups of three, the red circle is the circumfurance of the mote, the sold red dot represents my bubbler. The motes are covered with gravel so when they start to flood the mote the water goes around the tree group within the boundry of the mote. I also dig a small pit the size of a tennis ball right at the base of the bubblers and drop in time release fertilizer,  so the theory is the water runs over the fertilizer, then it flows all the way around the mote and saturates into the rootball.  If the bubbler is not outputting enough water, it may saturate into the ground before it travels all the way around the mote and rootball.  I think I will experiment with a higher flow bubblers to insure that flow around the mote. The ground/dirt is very very porous. 

@Tom in Havasu you could try a heavy pine bark mulch better for windy conditions

[mnorell]

There are many of these in the greater Palm Springs area, from full shade to full sun. The city of Indian Wells has gobs of them interplanted with Ixora in the center divider of Highway 111 and they look great. The key I think is in remembering, as others have noted above, these are not desert palms and are native, if memory serves, to the Mekong Delta…so rich soil and lots and lots of water are what they yearn for. And think about the diameter of the root zone, as a drip system with the diameter you show would be okay probably only for a short time after planting. The root system wants to spread out for yards and yards and that’s why it’s best to flood irrigate a large area, and why they are best in a large mixed shrubbery where water is distributed over a large area. In this barren rocky environment you have in your pictures you really need something like Chamaerops. I’d suggest moving the pygmies to another area where you have denser plantings, a more compost-type mulch, and perhaps some more shade. 

[aztropic]

5 hours ago, Rubberboots said:

@aztropic how are the Buccaneers looking...photos in that heat currently?

As tough as they are,even the buccaneers yellow up in full,all day AZ summer sun combined with 118F temperatures.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[Looking Glass]

15 minutes ago, aztropic said:

As tough as they are,even the buccaneers yellow up in full,all day AZ summer sun combined with 118F temperatures.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

Sustained 118F + full sun.   That’s crazy.  

[Rubberboots]

21 minutes ago, aztropic said:

As tough as they are,even the buccaneers yellow up in full,all day AZ summer sun combined with 118F temperatures.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

@aztropiccould you ship this to me 🤔😆🤪

[aztropic]

I had 2 of them available this spring, similar size, (15 gallon size) but both already sold out. Probably too big to ship, but multiple people have made the drive from California, Utah, and New Mexico to pick up my plants in person.👍🌴

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[Tom in Havasu]

26 minutes ago, mnorell said:

There are many of these in the greater Palm Springs area, from full shade to full sun. The city of Indian Wells has gobs of them interplanted with Ixora in the center divider of Highway 111 and they look great. The key I think is in remembering, as others have noted above, these are not desert palms and are native, if memory serves, to the Mekong Delta…so rich soil and lots and lots of water are what they yearn for. And think about the diameter of the root zone, as a drip system with the diameter you show would be okay probably only for a short time after planting. The root system wants to spread out for yards and yards and that’s why it’s best to flood irrigate a large area, and why they are best in a large mixed shrubbery where water is distributed over a large area. In this barren rocky environment you have in your pictures you really need something like Chamaerops. I’d suggest moving the pygmies to another area where you have denser plantings, a more compost-type mulch, and perhaps some more shade. 

Its pretty barren where we are. The dirt (if you can call it that) is very rocky and sandy with some clay so not a lot flourishes and then there's the heat. But we are one of the few who have had good luck but I did redo my irrigation with a drip system and I do not skimp on the watering. We live on a hill and there is a flood basin below us so more of our nutrients have been washed away to lower levels.

[aztropic]

This is what most pygmy date palms look like right now in my neighborhood after 3 straight weeks of 110F - 118F.  Even with daily watering,the extreme heat yellows, and even burns the fronds; even with some shade. Luckily, when it cools off starting mid October, they will replace an entire crown over the winter to look great again by spring.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[Rubberboots]

1 hour ago, aztropic said:

This is what most pygmy date palms look like right now in my neighborhood after 3 straight weeks of 110F - 118F.  Even with daily watering,the extreme heat yellows, and even burns the fronds; even with some shade. Luckily, when it cools off starting mid October, they will replace an entire crown over the winter to look great again by spring.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

Not bad for that heat

[TropicsEnjoyer]

@Tom in Havasu Pygmy dates are lovely but I do also suggest you consider other options if these burn up eventually. As someone mentioned earlier Chamaerops humilis if you want to keep the small clumping palm look. But you could also go bigger I think, because to me your space looks quite empty. I think some nice big palms for your area could be Phoenix dactylifera, Brahea armata, Sabal uresana, Washingtonia filifera, and heck maybe you could even try Medemia argun.

At the very least I would say a good few xeric plants such as agaves and cacti would fit nicely into the empty space around the palms and would make your area look fuller without needing much of any care or water. 

[96720]

My Pigmy dates look pretty good I’m not a fan of drip mine are on sprinklers and do pretty good beside 110-118 we also get some pretty strong winds so it’s not just an oven but a convection oven!!! Though I would also add some pictures of my royals that do amazing in this weather!!

[Roger T.]

On 8/13/2025 at 11:28 AM, Roger T. said:

Will pigmy date palms always get sun burned in Phoenix  Arizona, area?

I have decided to trade the Pigmy Date palms our for Mediterranean Palms. They will do better in full sun and heat.