Experience with Butia odorata/eriospatha in Northern europe and northwestern USA/sotuhwestern Canada

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

Hi😀

I’m working on getting a good sized Butia eriospatha for my garden. If I can’t manage to get a hold of one I Will get a odorata/capitata. 
I live in northern atlantic z8B climate, many winters z9A. Our winter months (december, january and february) experince a lot of rain and some snow in short periods of time. Record cold here since 1990 is -10 degrees, and the average lowest temp each winter is about -6 or 7. Most days in winter has a high of 4-12 degrees celsius, while we almost always have some short periods with day frost during cold spells, where the temperatures don’t go over zero degrees. These periods are almost always without and wind and dry. We also have days of 12-15 degrees in short periods every winter. 
Our climate is very similar to northern Britain, also the summers. Also the northwestern part of America from Seattle to Vancouver is quite similar, though with slightly warmer and druer summers. 

Is there anyone here with good experience with them in such a climate? I’m willing to protect them with fleece during short cold spells, especially the first winters, until they have adapted and made a good root system. After that probably with a roof to keep the worst rain away from the growing point. 
 

Thanks for sharing good advice or experience😀 Also on how well they grow in a climate where average summer highs are about 19 degrees, and with not more than 40days over 20degrees in a normal year. Summer highs normally range from 14-28, with not every summer getting over 30 degrees. 

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

22 minutes ago, Palmfjord62degressnorth said:

Hi😀

I’m working on getting a good sized Butia eriospatha for my garden. If I can’t manage to get a hold of one I Will get a odorata/capitata. 
I live in northern atlantic z8B climate, many winters z9A. Our winter months (december, january and february) experince a lot of rain and some snow in short periods of time. Record cold here since 1990 is -10 degrees, and the average lowest temp each winter is about -6 or 7. Most days in winter has a high of 4-12 degrees celsius, while we almost always have some short periods with day frost during cold spells, where the temperatures don’t go over zero degrees. These periods are almost always without and wind and dry. We also have days of 12-15 degrees in short periods every winter. 
Our climate is very similar to northern Britain, also the summers. Also the northwestern part of America from Seattle to Vancouver is quite similar, though with slightly warmer and druer summers. 

Is there anyone here with good experience with them in such a climate? I’m willing to protect them with fleece during short cold spells, especially the first winters, until they have adapted and made a good root system. After that probably with a roof to keep the worst rain away from the growing point. 
 

Thanks for sharing good advice or experience😀 Also on how well they grow in a climate where average summer highs are about 19 degrees, and with not more than 40days over 20degrees in a normal year. Summer highs normally range from 14-28, with not every summer getting over 30 degrees. 

But this year we probably Will have atleast two days at 30 degrees 🤩🌡️

[SeanK]

I assume the temps you quote are °C. 

I'm surprised you see snow as here in the states, it usually only falls in the cooler areas of z7.

Don't know the heat requirements, but I do know that Butia doesn't like frozen precipitation in the bud.

[Alberto]

The absolute minimum cold hardiness of B. eriospatha and B. odorata are maybe similar (I don't know for sure) but the only Butia that sees some regular snow in winter and in its habitat the summer temperatures are also fresher is B. eriospatha, because its habitat is on the tablelands.   https://www.google.com/amp/s/g1.globo.com/google/amp/sc/santa-catarina/noticia/2020/08/21/neve-atinge-grande-florianopolis-diz-epagriciram.ghtml

[Chester B]

Odorata is hardier than eriospatha in the Pacific Northwest. If you can only grow one that is what I would choose. 
 

I would wrap the center spear for freezing rain and the same if you expect a big snowfall. Your lack of heat is a bit of a handicap as they really appreciate hot summers. 

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

4 hours ago, SeanK said:

I assume the temps you quote are °C. 

I'm surprised you see snow as here in the states, it usually only falls in the cooler areas of z7.

Don't know the heat requirements, but I do know that Butia doesn't like frozen precipitation in the bud.

Yes, celsius. It probably has to do that we have a maritim climate far north, and much preception. While most climates 8z in the US are very far south and had little preception compared to us. Also the is a bigger difference day to night than here in desember and january, since the sun is further away.  So when it snows here it is normally northern winds from north of the polar circle coming down, but the temp does normally don’t fall under 0 celsius when it snowy, mostly between 3 celsius and - 2. 

I’m not to concerned about the minimums here, but we have a wet climate and are far north, making the sun not as strong in december and january. So the few times we have a cold spell, there May be some days with 24hours -celsius. But from what I have read here, that also hallen in z8 climates in the US. Also northern Britain where I know of several with experience with many years with Butia, has a very similar temperature range. After the beginning of february the chance of cold spells with 24hour frost is minimal. 

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

46 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Odorata is hardier than eriospatha in the Pacific Northwest. If you can only grow one that is what I would choose. 
 

I would wrap the center spear for freezing rain and the same if you expect a big snowfall. Your lack of heat is a bit of a handicap as they really appreciate hot summers. 

Thanks, just very difficult to get eriospatha here. Trachycarpus grow very well here, but I don’t know how much higher hest requirements there is for Butias?

I Hope the long days with 15hours of sunshine on the palms, work up for that.  Also 25 degrees here does not at all feil like 25 degrees in for example Milano or New York, it frem much warmer due to being right by the sea. Don’t know if that Will work in our favour. And as you can see, there are also some summer heat, but not nearly as often as areas within the same zone in eastern US for example. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

I am curious what part of Norway?  Never been but I've always wanted to visit. 

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

1 hour ago, BeyondTheGarden said:

I am curious what part of Norway?  Never been but I've always wanted to visit. 

The city of Ålesund, in the western part of Norway 😀 Beautiful area close to the Geirangerfjord and Trollstigen. Well worth a visit.  Ålesund, together with Bergen and Stavanger has very mild climates, greatly influenced by the Gulf stream like much of Britain.  Making some hardy palm species possible here without protection. Butia is ofcourse on the edge. 

[wheely30km]

On 7/20/2024 at 6:37 PM, Palmfjord62degressnorth said:

 

2 years ago, I bought and planted a ±20 years old butia odorata here in Luxembourg (Europe). This winter, we had 3 months of rain, followed by -9°C (=15°F) at night, freezing during the day, we even had freezing rain : bad conditions... 😪
I protected the trunk with a heating cable on a thermostat, but was worried about humidity in the the top of the trunk, that could lead to rot, but luckily it didn't seem to suffer. 🤩

Only damage = youngest palm had some slight coldburn.

Palm is in a well drained soil (1/2m = 2 feet earth and pozzolana, sand underneath). 

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

26 minutes ago, wheely30km said:

2 years ago, I bought and planted a ±20 years old butia odorata here in Luxembourg (Europe). This winter, we had 3 months of rain, followed by -9°C (=15°F) at night, freezing during the day, we even had freezing rain : bad conditions... 😪
I protected the trunk with a heating cable on a thermostat, but was worried about humidity in the the top of the trunk, that could lead to rot, but luckily it didn't seem to suffer. 🤩

Only damage = youngest palm had some slight coldburn.

Palm is in a well drained soil (1/2m = 2 feet earth and pozzolana, sand underneath). 

Interesting 😀 That is good News. How is your climate compared to Belgium and Netherlands? Do you have pictures? I’m going to plant one here next year, but are looking for a good sized eriospatha. We normally have 5-6 degrees during winter days, and 0-2 during the night. The coldest night on average each winter is -6/7, record -10. I Will probably protect it in cold periods, but without warming. So the climate is very similar to the Netherlands in winter, but they have worse extremes. 

[Marco67]

20 hours ago, Palmfjord62degressnorth said:

Interesting 😀 That is good News. How is your climate compared to Belgium and Netherlands? Do you have pictures? I’m going to plant one here next year, but are looking for a good sized eriospatha. We normally have 5-6 degrees during winter days, and 0-2 during the night. The coldest night on average each winter is -6/7, record -10. I Will probably protect it in cold periods, but without warming. So the climate is very similar to the Netherlands in winter, but they have worse extremes. 

While perhaps you don't have the extremes we have in the Netherlands and Belgium, your climate is extremely wet. Combined with long periods of cool weather makes butia's very vulnerable to rot. 

Lack of heat is already a problem for Butia's and Jubaea here in the Netherlands, where you live there is even less heat. They are slow growers and without protection they won't make it long term unprotected I think and will slowly wither away.  But there is only one way to really find out of course. 

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

On 9/4/2024 at 8:17 PM, Marco67 said:

While perhaps you don't have the extremes we have in the Netherlands and Belgium, your climate is extremely wet. Combined with long periods of cool weather makes butia's very vulnerable to rot. 

Lack of heat is already a problem for Butia's and Jubaea here in the Netherlands, where you live there is even less heat. They are slow growers and without protection they won't make it long term unprotected I think and will slowly wither away.  But there is only one way to really find out of course. 

Difficult ti know before it is tried. Ofcourse the soil Will be very well drained. For example there are people growing them at 55degrees north in England without protection and the same temps as us in summer and winter, wit a diffrence of 1 degree over the whole year. So hopefully it Will be possible. I Will try with a roof over from late november until late march. I already have Jubaea and they grow well in our climate, and seems to love the wet summers. The question Will be the wet winters, since the temps alone is not a problem at all. But temps combined with moist may be.