Raising a trench for the winter?

[Than]

I live in a climate which is dry and hot in the summer and cool & rainy in the winter. Cr@ppy combination. I am wondering whether planting palms with a trench around them is a good idea. It will help water to stay around them which is good in the summer but it may result in accumulation of too much water and root rotting in the winter, when we get many rainy days..

Is there a way to cover the trench in the winter or fill it in with something so that rainwater doesn't pool? Adding soil may damage the roots as they will be buried too deep. Adding mulch won't stop the water.  Any ideas?

[Tyrone]

What is your soil type? Sandy or more like clay?

[Than]

18 hours ago, Tyrone said:

What is your soil type? Sandy or more like clay?

I haven't done the soil test yet but I think there is enough sand in it.

[Slifer00]

Canary Island Date Palm is probably the palm most suitable. It is quit cold tolerant and it can tolerate from 150-1500mm rain annually. If you can increase the drainage, washingtonia filiffera can be a great addition as well. 

[Tyrone]

9 hours ago, Than said:

I haven't done the soil test yet but I think there is enough sand in it.

If your soil is mainly free draining sand, then you don’t need to change anything. If water is not sitting around your palms in winter then it’s OK. The only time you may run into trouble is if you are trying to zone push a tropical palm like a coconut. Wet soil in winter where the climate is cool (away from the tropics) is fatal for coconuts. 

[Phoenikakias]

Do not dig a trench, just plug in the palm in same level with surrounding ground  and costruct a dam around the root zone. Every winter you have just to tear down a small part of it, so that rain water may run through.

[Tomas]

Are you so concerned about the winter rain? I have seen the average rainfall for Athens,  approximately 500 mm, that is the same quantity as in Santa Marinella where my garden is. My soil is sticky clay and I am happy about it, the rain is never enough. Even in winter.

Besides that, the trench will receive the same amount of rain as the rest of the garden, is there a significant  amount of  runoff in your garden?

[Phoenikakias]

7 hours ago, Tomas said:

Are you so concerned about the winter rain? I have seen the average rainfall for Athens,  approximately 500 mm, that is the same quantity as in Santa Marinella where my garden is. My soil is sticky clay and I am happy about it, the rain is never enough. Even in winter.

Besides that, the trench will receive the same amount of rain as the rest of the garden, is there a significant  amount of  runoff in your garden?

Athens perhaps but Attica, especially the southern part, no hell no. It is comparatively bone dry. I only have had less than 100 mm rainfall since February up to now.

[jwitt]

Do a bowl(raised berm) around the palm.  Cut a trench in the berm when you don't want water to accumulate.

Filifera can take some wet roots. They grow in swamps. 

[Than]

On 7/11/2024 at 11:48 PM, Slifer00 said:

Canary Island Date Palm is probably the palm most suitable. It is quit cold tolerant and it can tolerate from 150-1500mm rain annually. If you can increase the drainage, washingtonia filiffera can be a great addition as well. 

CIDP is a big no-no for two reasons. First it is a weed here, in everyone's garden, so it is boring for me and second because of the red weevil. I want to try some more exotic and sensitive plants, hence my concern.

@Phoenikakias that is a good idea! I guess I'll do that!

@Tomas I don't live in Attica anymore, moved to a place with much wetter winters, around 800mm. Not too much still but almost all of it falls in the winter and in combination with near freezing temperatures.. dunno...

[Palmfarmer]

Make a raised berm around it instead 

[Phoenikakias]

On 7/13/2024 at 2:43 PM, Than said:

 

@Phoenikakias that is a good idea! I guess I'll do that!

@Tomas

You know what is further condition for recommended method? No cats or tortoises in your garden!

[Than]

2 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

You know what is further condition for recommended method? No cats or tortoises in your garden!

My neighbour has 14 cats and I have one. That makes 15. I will try stone borders for the berms

[Phoenikakias]

12 hours ago, Than said:

My neighbour has 14 cats and I have one. That makes 15. I will try stone borders for the berms

Now I gonna become slightly meaner (than I use to be). Cats love to turn to WC fresh, soft eartn and compost. Also berms made of soil. They love also to sharpen their claws on soil fabrics and naked trunks of crownshafted palms and to urinate by spraying directly on to young palms growing point. For me their presence means considerably more maintenance work and occasionally also plant losses. It it were legal, I would surely cull them.

[Than]

3 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Now I gonna become slightly meaner (than I use to be). Cats love to turn to WC fresh, soft eartn and compost. Also berms made of soil. They love also to sharpen their claws on soil fabrics and naked trunks of crownshafted palms and to urinate by spraying directly on to young palms growing point. For me their presence means considerably more maintenance work and occasionally also plant losses. It it were legal, I would surely cull them.

Yeah I am aware they will create a mess. I am considering an ultrasonic device with motion detector, that annoys them so they stay away, but that would also annoy my own cat.. difficult. Culling them is not something that I'd consider tho...........

The most annoying thing is that my neighbour has money to feed 14 cats but no money to spay them, she said... typical Greek situation. I'll convince her, first politely and if necessary not so politely to at least spay them.

[Navarro]

1 hour ago, Than said:

Sí, soy consciente de que causarán un desastre. Estoy considerando un dispositivo ultrasónico con detector de movimiento, que los moleste para que se alejen, pero eso también molestaría a mi propio gato... difícil. Sin embargo, no consideraría sacrificarlos...

Lo más molesto es que mi vecina tiene dinero para alimentar a 14 gatos, pero no para esterilizarlos, según me dijo... situación típica griega. La convenceré, primero educadamente y si es necesario no tan educadamente, de que al menos los esterilice.

Hay asociaciones que esterilizan a los gatos que viven en la calle , al menos en España .

Habla con los responsables de refugios de perros y gatos en adopción y hablales de tu problema ,seguro te pueden ayudar .

Mi familia y yo somos de los que no puede mirar para otro lado cuando vemos gatos en la calle hambrientos y les damos de comer y al familiarizarse con nosotros terminaron todos en la puerta de mi casa y para evitar la proliferacion contactamos con dicha asociación y tan solo nos cobraron 60 euros por cada esterilización , aproveché el precio para esterilizar también al mío que tengo dentro de casa .

Este es mi método para que no dañen mis plantas ,coloco piedras alrededor 

[Than]

10 hours ago, Navarro said:

Hay asociaciones que esterilizan a los gatos que viven en la calle , al menos en España .

Habla con los responsables de refugios de perros y gatos en adopción y hablales de tu problema ,seguro te pueden ayudar .

Mi familia y yo somos de los que no puede mirar para otro lado cuando vemos gatos en la calle hambrientos y les damos de comer y al familiarizarse con nosotros terminaron todos en la puerta de mi casa y para evitar la proliferacion contactamos con dicha asociación y tan solo nos cobraron 60 euros por cada esterilización , aproveché el precio para esterilizar también al mío que tengo dentro de casa .

Este es mi método para que no dañen mis plantas ,coloco piedras alrededor 

Yeah here too you may find such associations and actually the law says that all municipalities must offer free animal sterilizations. In reality few do, or do it only sporadically. The thing is that if I must pay 50 euro per cat for 14 cats, that's 700 euro already... it's unfair. The cat owner should be given fines if you ask me.