Brahea brandegeei. Zone 8b.

[Peachs]

Is it equivalent to washingtonia robusta in cold resistance?
 

I know it is slower but there is little experience of its resistance to cold.

[UK_Palms]

Hello pal, I would say they are more hardy than Washingtonia in regards to wind, rain, lack of sun and all-round cool temperatures. However they probably don't like any kind of hard frosts. So any temperatures below -5C are going to do severe damage to it. You probably don't want lower than -3C each winter at worst really. Of course a severe freeze of say -6C or lower will probably kill it.

There is a decent specimen of Brandegeei growing at Abbotsbury Subtropical Garden Dorset (50N). This is fairly close to the coast/sea and probably zone 9b. It is likely the furthest north big specimen in the world. You can see it in the video thumbnail below next to the guy for scale. Skip to 15:16 in the video to see it. It probably only see's -2C most winters (like the last one) and maybe -4C in a 'bad' winter like 22/23.

[Peachs]

Hace 11 minutos, UK_Palms dijo:

Hola, amigo, diría que son más resistentes que Washingtonia en lo que respecta al viento, la lluvia, la falta de sol y las temperaturas frescas en general. Sin embargo, probablemente no les guste ningún tipo de heladas duras. Así que cualquier temperatura por debajo de -5C le va a causar un daño grave. Probablemente no quieras menos de -3C cada invierno en el peor de los casos. Por supuesto, una congelación severa de, digamos -6C o menos, probablemente lo matará.

Hay un espécimen decente de Brandegeei que crece en el Jardín Subtropical de Abbotsbury Dorset (50N). Esto está bastante cerca de la costa/mar y probablemente de la zona 9b. Es probable que sea el espécimen grande más al norte del mundo. Puedes verlo en la miniatura del vídeo a continuación, junto al tipo de la escala. Saltar a las 15:16 en el vídeo para verlo. Probablemente solo vea -2C la mayoría de los inviernos (como el último) y tal vez -4C en un invierno "malo" como el 22/23.

Thank you.

 

Here, w. Robusta recovers well at -6°C, although with damage. I understand that brahea would not look good because of its slower recovery.

[UK_Palms]

They have a Mule Palm (Butyagrus Nabonanndii) growing there as well in Dorset which must be one of the biggest in the UK. Visible in the video thumbnail and at 26:14 in the video. This video was made at the end of winter as well and there is little to no damage at all.

 

Interesting that they say Washingtonia struggle to grow in that location of coastal Dorset, whereas the Mule and Brahea Brandegeei do well for them. Yet in other areas of England like Kent and Essex where Washingontia do very well, the Mule and Brandegeei won't grow. So hardiness isn't just about the cold minimums, but the wet-cold. I think you really just need mild nights in winter for Mule palms and stuff like Brandegeei. They don't need much heat, but they need it mild in winter with minimal frosts.

[Peachs]

Hace 12 minutos, UK_Palms dijo:

Tienen una palmera mula (Butyagrus Nabonanndii) que también crece allí en Dorset, que debe ser una de las más grandes del Reino Unido. Visible en la miniatura del vídeo y a las 26:14 en el vídeo. Este vídeo también se hizo al final del invierno y hay poco o ningún daño en absoluto.

 

Es interesante que digan que Washingtonia tiene dificultades para crecer en ese lugar de la costa de Dorset, mientras que a los Mule y Brahea Brandegeei les va bien. Sin embargo, en otras áreas de Inglaterra como Kent y Essex, donde a Washingontia le va muy bien, el Mule y el Brandegeei no crecerán. Así que la resistencia no se trata solo de los mínimos fríos, sino del frío húmedo. Creo que realmente solo necesitas noches suaves en invierno para las palmeras de mula y cosas como Brandegeei. No necesitan mucho calor, pero lo necesitan suave en invierno con heladas mínimas.

Here in inland Spain the cold is dry, the coast is far away, but there is little experience in growing palm trees.

[UK_Palms]

23 minutes ago, Peachs said:

Here in inland Spain the cold is dry, the coast is far away, but there is little experience in growing palm trees.

It’s hard to say as like you mention Washingtonia recovers very quickly. Even in London they grow new crowns completely by August, even after a ‘bad’ winter. This gives them an advantage for outgrowing damage and surviving.

One of the most famous Washingtonia’s in the UK is at Dave Brown’s house in Kent (30 miles east of London) has recovered fine after a few bad winters in the 20 years it has been planted. But he cannot grow Brahea Brandegeei or Mule Palms there, showing the need for mild winters to limit damage/recovery for those two types.

It is worth noting that he is in zone 9a as well and still can't really grow Brandegeei, unlike in zone 9b in Dorset.

[Peachs]

Hace 39 minutos, UK_Palms dijo:

Es difícil decirlo, ya que como mencionas, Washingtonia se recupera muy rápidamente. Incluso en Londres crecen nuevas coronas completamente para agosto, incluso después de un "mal" invierno. Esto les da una ventaja para superar el daño y sobrevivir.

Uno de los Washingtonia más famosos del Reino Unido está en la casa de Dave Brown en Kent (30 millas al este de Londres) y se ha recuperado bien después de algunos malos inviernos en los 20 años que se ha plantado. Pero no puede cultivar Brahea Brandegeei o Mule Palms allí, lo que muestra la necesidad de inviernos suaves para limitar el daño/recuperación de esos dos tipos.

Vale la pena señalar que también está en la zona 9a y todavía no puede cultivar Brandegeei, a diferencia de la zona 9b en Dorset.

Maybe the difference is the wet winter and not the low temperatures?

In other words, in my area, perhaps the resistance could be higher?

I have 4 undamaged mule palms, even small ones in pots.

[UK_Palms]

23 minutes ago, Peachs said:

Maybe the difference is the wet winter and not the low temperatures?

In other words, in my area, perhaps the resistance could be higher?

I have 4 undamaged mule palms, even small ones in pots.

Possibly, but last winter just gone was very mild for Spain and here in the UK. Western Europe didn’t have any proper cold really. I think for you guys it was the 2nd warmest winter on record?

I wouldn’t expect every winter to be like that, but it is also a sign of a warming climate, meaning you will be able to grow more and more palms and exotics, just as we are doing in the UK now.

The only way to know is to plant a Brahea Brandegeei and see how it gets on. They may have more protection for you there like you say due to warmer/sunnier climate in general, but hard to know. Southern England is more protected in winter than central Spain.

This Washingtonia Filifera in Essex has just had the wettest October - May period on record. Loads of rain, which Filifera are supposed to hate, yet it looks like this. Photo was posted by someone today. 20 years ago the idea of something like this growing in Essex would have seemed ridiculous.

Again that is probably zone 9a there at least in Canvey Island, Essex, and they wouldn’t be able to grow a Brandegeei or Mule Palm there as winters are a bit too cold. Yet Filifera is doing great. But then Filifera wouldn’t grow well in places where they can grow Brandegeei and Mules over here. So many variables.

[Silas_Sancona]

Can't speak for ultimate  cold hardiness but  B. brandegeei  are grown in Tucson where lows can drop into the high teens F occasionally /  dusted by a trace - 3" of snow ( usually melts quickly afterward ) every few winters w/ out much adverse effect..

Same thing can occur at a garden located up in the foothills about an hour east of me and their brandegeei specimens shrug it off as well..

As far as recovery, since brandegeei is faster, overall, ...here at least,  it would replace damaged fronds quicker ..than say armata.  B. edulis  is a " fast " growing  Brahea  as well.

As mentioned, if you have the opportunity to try one,  go for it.. Beautiful palm.

As far as Washintonia, W. robusta esp. both are grown in Tucson,  and " chilly " zone 8 areas of Southeastern AZ w/ out much trouble..

Here's a couple shots from a well known palm oasis located in a well - known cold pocket on the far east side of Tucson ( Tanque Verde ) . 

Have seen lows bottomed out in the 17-19F / -8 to -9C  range a couple times when checking the nearest to this location neighborhood weather station on the coldest winter mornings we've had a couple times over the last 4 years.

Only noted one or two that were dead when i'd last visited and i doubt it was cold related.

Agua Caliente Regional Park,  Tucson, AZ.






W. robusta might experience some damage during the colder winters down there, but bounce back as soon as it warms up in the spring.

Heck, lol ..this past winter, the lowest i saw where i'm at was 28F -2C. A few -of the gazillions of mex. Fans planted up this way-  suffered minor damage ( extra - obvious weeping, bronzing / discoloration of some fronds ).  Fine now.

[Peachs]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Can't speak for ultimate  cold hardiness but  B. brandegeei  are grown in Tucson where lows can drop into the high teens F occasionally /  dusted by a trace - 3" of snow ( usually melts quickly afterward ) every few winters w/ out much adverse effect..

Same thing can occur at a garden located up in the foothills about an hour east of me and their brandegeei specimens shrug it off as well..

As far as recovery, since brandegeei is faster, overall, ...here at least,  it would replace damaged fronds quicker ..than say armata.  B. edulis  is a " fast " growing  Brahea  as well.

As mentioned, if you have the opportunity to try one,  go for it.. Beautiful palm.

As far as Washintonia, W. robusta esp. both are grown in Tucson,  and " chilly " zone 8 areas of Southeastern AZ w/ out much trouble..

Here's a couple shots from a well known palm oasis located in a well - known cold pocket on the far east side of Tucson ( Tanque Verde ) . 

Have seen lows bottomed out in the 17-19F / -8 to -9C  range a couple times when checking the nearest to this location neighborhood weather station on the coldest winter mornings we've had a couple times over the last 4 years.

Only noted one or two that were dead when i'd last visited and i doubt it was cold related.

Agua Caliente Regional Park,  Tucson, AZ.






W. robusta might experience some damage during the colder winters down there, but bounce back as soon as it warms up in the spring.

Heck, lol ..this past winter, the lowest i saw where i'm at was 28F -2C. A few -of the gazillions of mex. Fans planted up this way-  suffered minor damage ( extra - obvious weeping, bronzing / discoloration of some fronds ).  Fine now.

Thank you very much! Brahea Edulis is also fast, but do you think it is the same as Brahea brandegeei in the same conditions?    
 

[Silas_Sancona]

Just now, Peachs said:

Thank you very much! Brahea Edulis is also fast, but do you think it is the same as Brahea brandegeei in the same conditions?    
 

Because it comes from a drier / hotter climate than edulis, < My thoughts on this only >,  i'd say brandegeei will be a touch slower,  ..but not snail's pace,  like say armata can be.

  Originating on Guadalupe Island, B. edulis comes from a place where it did not have as many constraints to ideal, year round growth as exists on the super hot / dry, east facing side of Baja, northern end of Baja esp. where B. armata grows,  and the moderately dry ..but still hot... area of N' Western Mexico / S. Baja where B. brandegeei grows.

With a few exceptions, here in the Sonoran Desert ( Overall Sonoran Desert Region includes both Sonora proper in Mexico ..and the Northern quarter of Sinaloa / all of Baja, ..Southern half esp. ),  extreme heat and extremely dry air this time of year slow ..or shut down growth on a lot of stuff until Monsoon Season rains arrive.

If you look at habitat pictures from either Alamos, Sonora, Cajon Del Diablo, near Guaymas,  or even around Cabo San Lucas / La Paz, across the Gulf in Baja Sur,  there is a very distinct dry period this time of year  where a majority of the vegetation is pretty bare / landscape looks dead. 

In Alamos, the dry season has been given the nick name of " Monte Mojino "

Once the rains kick in, those same landscapes become extremely lush / jungle - looking as everything puts on an explosive burst of growth.


Since they typically hang closer to water sources, native palms down there might put on their best, annual growth  after it starts raining, but will still add growth -slower as it might be- during the dry season.

Even plants in a landscape that are provided optimal conditions will slow a bit now, then put out growth -at a faster relative pace- once it starts raining / extreme heat of the " dry " season is knocked down a bit.

In a climate that is hot ..but maybe not " Arizona Hot "..  and perhaps has a little more humidity   ..say hanging in the 20-30% range thru the summer, vs. here where the humidity drops to 1-10% for several weeks this time of year,   i myself would expect " desert " palms, inc. those like brandegeei to grow a bit faster -overall- than what you'd see in habitat, or in an ideal situation in a garden here..

Just my thoughts on that however. Experience- based thoughts / opinions on that by others may vary a bit.

[Peachs]

56 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Because it comes from a drier / hotter climate than edulis, < My thoughts on this only >,  i'd say brandegeei will be a touch slower,  ..but not snail's pace,  like say armata can be.

  Originating on Guadalupe Island, B. edulis comes from a place where it did not have as many constraints to ideal, year round growth as exists on the super hot / dry, east facing side of Baja, northern end of Baja esp. where B. armata grows,  and the moderately dry ..but still hot... area of N' Western Mexico / S. Baja where B. brandegeei grows.

With a few exceptions, here in the Sonoran Desert ( Overall Sonoran Desert Region includes both Sonora proper in Mexico ..and the Northern quarter of Sinaloa / all of Baja, ..Southern half esp. ),  extreme heat and extremely dry air this time of year slow ..or shut down growth on a lot of stuff until Monsoon Season rains arrive.

If you look at habitat pictures from either Alamos, Sonora, Cajon Del Diablo, near Guaymas,  or even around Cabo San Lucas / La Paz, across the Gulf in Baja Sur,  there is a very distinct dry period this time of year  where a majority of the vegetation is pretty bare / landscape looks dead. 

In Alamos, the dry season has been given the nick name of " Monte Mojino "

Once the rains kick in, those same landscapes become extremely lush / jungle - looking as everything puts on an explosive burst of growth.


Since they typically hang closer to water sources, native palms down there might put on their best, annual growth  after it starts raining, but will still add growth -slower as it might be- during the dry season.

Even plants in a landscape that are provided optimal conditions will slow a bit now, then put out growth -at a faster relative pace- once it starts raining / extreme heat of the " dry " season is knocked down a bit.

In a climate that is hot ..but maybe not " Arizona Hot "..  and perhaps has a little more humidity   ..say hanging in the 20-30% range thru the summer, vs. here where the humidity drops to 1-10% for several weeks this time of year,   i myself would expect " desert " palms, inc. those like brandegeei to grow a bit faster -overall- than what you'd see in habitat, or in an ideal situation in a garden here..

Just my thoughts on that however. Experience- based thoughts / opinions on that by others may vary a bit.

Valuable information. Thank you.