Pelagodoxa Henryana

[Ned99]

My potted Pelagodoxa is getting too big for my greenhouse (about 8’ tall) and am considering putting it in the ground. I’m in Tampa on the line between 9b and 10a and have a spot with good canopy for frost protection. Any ideas as to how low of temperature it could take? I’ve read opinions of down to freezing. Anyone have experience with Pelagodoxas in the cold? 

[happypalms]

20 hours ago, Ned99 said:

My potted Pelagodoxa is getting too big for my greenhouse (about 8’ tall) and am considering putting it in the ground. I’m in Tampa on the line between 9b and 10a and have a spot with good canopy for frost protection. Any ideas as to how low of temperature it could take? I’ve read opinions of down to freezing. Anyone have experience with Pelagodoxas in the cold? 

I can say my pelagodoxa henryana takes temperatures as low as 2 degrees Celsius protected in my hothouse but growing slowly they do love water mine is sitting in a tray of water all year round but has survived 3 winters and counting good luck 

[Ned99]

That’s promising, thanks!

[D. Morrowii]

2 hours ago, happypalms said:

I can say my pelagodoxa henryana takes temperatures as low as 2 degrees Celsius protected in my hothouse but growing slowly they do love water mine is sitting in a tray of water all year round but has survived 3 winters and counting good luck 

@happypalms Do you have a guess on the duration at those temps? Did you get any leaf damage or anything? 

[KrisKupsch]

I bought three from a chap who clambered the wilds to obtain the seed so he is 100% sure of the provenance and ID.

I now have just 2. 

I planted 2 before last winter, one died as soon as it got cold and dry. The second pulled the spear but all leaves remained green. It surprisingly regrew its spear in the Summer just gone and now is going into its second winter albeit half its original size and vigour. 

I kept a third inside under lights during winter and planted it six months ago at the start of summer. This time i chose a semi boggy ever moist site where my other equatorial stuff is like Licualas, Joeys, Sabinaria etc. It was 5.2C this morning and gets down to 3C. Apparently its easier than its cousin henry so I have hopes of pulling it through. Im in Burringbar, NENSW Au and identify as 10b at best. Google Earth it. Cheers Kris

[happypalms]

18 hours ago, D. Morrowii said:

@happypalms Do you have a guess on the duration at those temps? Did you get any leaf damage or anything? 

I would guess medium chill hours google says medium chill areas =450-650 chill units providing low chill plants are protected from late spring frost t but that is for Coffs Harbour a coastal town 30 minutes south of my area but iam sure it’s bit colder in my area find that sweet spot in your garden and do everything you can for chill protection and cross both your green fingers you may get your one to live being a large plant look at your options you may have to plant it 

[flplantguy]

The big issue here will be that one or more nights every year thats not good for it.  If you have an area you can enclose in a protective mini greenhouse that could save it from cold damage for those hours, but i think it may be a difficult task. Some of mine will be donated when they are too big like my Vershaffeltias, that could be an option too if there is a conservatory that would be good for it you are willing to donate it to.  Central florida really could use some conservatories for those types of plants, i dont think we have one. A few missed opportunities here and thats one of them.

[D. Morrowii]

4 hours ago, flplantguy said:

The big issue here will be that one or more nights every year thats not good for it.  If you have an area you can enclose in a protective mini greenhouse that could save it from cold damage for those hours, but i think it may be a difficult task. Some of mine will be donated when they are too big like my Vershaffeltias, that could be an option too if there is a conservatory that would be good for it you are willing to donate it to.  Central florida really could use some conservatories for those types of plants, i dont think we have one. A few missed opportunities here and thats one of them.

Yep, it’s zone 10a here but only for a certain number of hours per year. There are certainly some 9b hours expected at some point in the future too. In the hardiness spreadsheet I think there are some references to the palm seeing low 30s but not kicking the bucket until months later. I have 2 nice ones in 7 gal containers that I’ll have to do something with soon. 

[flplantguy]

Slow deaths are terrible, i hope it bucks the rules!  They are so beautiful too.

[D. Morrowii]

This one is the larger of the two. Received with single bifid leafs in 4” pots about 3 years ago. They have been an easy grow here in pots at least. I’ve had occasional slight deficiencies and very minor bug issues, otherwise they just keep growing. I do baby them in winter though. If the forecast is 39F or lower I put them in the garage. @Ned99 Good luck if you decide to plant it out. I think I’ll probably plant this one next spring and just plan on protecting it if there are any long duration cold fronts or forecast lows below 35F 

[Ned99]

That seems to be the consensus. When getting close to freezing it needs protection. I think I’ll squeeze it in to the greenhouse for one more winter and then take a chance in the ground. I’ll be the ‘guinea pig’ and keep tabs on how it progresses 🤞
Hopefully that being more mature it’ll endure a little colder temperature.

[mnorell]

Whoops, I somehow thought this thread was about Verschaffeltia (the 110F temps today must have jarred my brain)...but I might as well leave these notes since these are all the "untouchable" palms for those of use in less-than-tropical places and perhaps have similar reactions to extratropical winters. So sorry, please read the below with that in mind...I haven't even attempted to try Pelagodoxa here though I wouldn't discount it. I lost mine in the Keys (one I bought from Jeff Searle) about ten years ago, though as I remember it croaked from drought, certainly not from cold. On that topic, isn't there a small-fruited form (from Fiji, I think?) that might have a little more cold-hardiness?

We have chilly nights all winter long (mostly low 40s F, with usually a few stretches of low or mid 30s F), although daytime highs are virtually always somewhere in the 60s (with some 70s) in the December-January (our coldest months) timeframe. I've had a few Verschaffeltia and Phoenicophorium here, testing in various ways. I have lost them all, two in 4" pots, one in the ground, but all were smallish plants ("Floribunda size"), and I think the Phoenicophorium was gallon-size. Per above comments from others for Pelagodoxa, for me Verschaffeltia and Phoenicophorium look fine right down to just above freezing, at least. Mine have always had some tree-canopy or shelter under eaves. But after repeated dings, by the time spring comes around, the weather seems to get the better of this lovely palm and it just suddenly collapses. Phoenicophorium I suspect it is a bit less hardy overall. Pelagodoxa I guess might be even more touchy than that. I think all of them are worth keeping as plunged garden focal points or even as annuals, if one can get them at a decent price and has a greenhouse or other suitable winter quarters for them. 

I suppose there is some hope for those with larger specimens, that, like Licuala grandis (which is definitely cold-hardier here in Palm Springs), if you can nurse it through some rough-looking acclimation for a few years, a strong, good-sized Verschaffeltia, Phoenicophorium or possibly even a Pelagodoxa might be able to grow into a decent specimen, as Mike @The Palm Nut has done with Licuala grandis in Port Macquarie, NSW. But I suppose a rogue winter is bound to do in virtually any one of these north of the Keys even with the luck of nursing it to a large size. I personally would keep experimenting and not be afraid to lose it, but that's not everybody's preferred tack, of course, especially if there was a large financial investment involved at the outset...