Mexican Fan Palm Zone 8a NM

[gdumea]

Hi guys,

I live in a dry climate in NM. I just traded a Bismarkia palm for a palm more suited in my environment, it's labeled as a Mexican Fan Palm.

First, what do I need to do to grow it successfully here? I see them all over town, but want to make sure I'm successful.

Second, do Mexican Fan Palms also have a little bit of hair on the fronds? The fronds aren't entirely hairless. Otherwise it definitely has all the Mexican Fan Palm traits 

[Leelanau Palms]

Could you please share a picture?

[SM458]

You might have a shot. I see some growing my area. And we’re about same hardiness zone. 

[Dwarf Fan]

Yes Washingtonia Filiferia, Robusta & Filibusta all have some degree of hairs (tomentose) on the fronds.

[gdumea]

19 hours ago, Leelanau Palms said:

Could you please share a picture?

Here is the palm in question, what do you think?

[Colin1110082]

38 minutes ago, gdumea said:

Here is the palm in question, what do you think?

It looks good! I’m not sure protection wise, maybe use Christmas lights on it during the winter I forget the exact type of lights and maybe some kind of insulation but I think on z8 it should be fine; I’m still an amateur so I’m not fully sure 

[Leelanau Palms]

Beautiful palm. @Silas_Sancona and @WSimpson can guide you.

[Silas_Sancona]

I'd be curious to see pictures of specimens growing around Carlsbad.. Could find only this one when doing a very random search of a few blocks and it looked more filifera than robusta.




Not impossible to grow one there i suppose though compared to say Las Cruces, or zone 8 areas of S.E. AZ,  Carlsbad is more exposed to the nastier cold episodes that can roll south down the high plains of eastern N.M. towards Texas in the winter.  No mountains to the north or east to block those cold waves as they pass.


That might play a big role in how long a pure / leans heavy robusta might survive there.  More filifera in a cross / pure filifera might be a better fit, imo.  Would think a couple of the hardier Sabal sps could work there too?

[gdumea]

19 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

I'd be curious to see pictures of specimens growing around Carlsbad.. Could find only this one when doing a very random search of a few blocks and it looked more filifera than robusta.




Not impossible to grow one there i suppose though compared to say Las Cruces, or zone 8 areas of S.E. AZ,  Carlsbad is more exposed to the nastier cold episodes that can roll south down the high plains of eastern N.M. towards Texas in the winter.  No mountains to the north or east to block those cold waves as they pass.


That might play a big role in how long a pure / leans heavy robusta might survive there.  More filifera in a cross / pure filifera might be a better fit, imo.  Would think a couple of the hardier Sabal sps could work there too?

The Mexican Fan Palms are by the Stevens Inn and Copperstone Apartments from what the seller told me

[jwitt]

Robusta are a 3-5 year palm here in ABQ.  Probably close to that in Carlsbad.  You will have to provide protection, maybe not every year, but many.  It will also defoliate most years.  

Not a good option in my mind.

[Silas_Sancona]

33 minutes ago, gdumea said:

The Mexican Fan Palms are by the Stevens Inn and Copperstone Apartments from what the seller told me

Interesting...   ...Wonder how long they've been there..  Thicker trunks on some could suggest filifera / definite filifera lean on some of them, which could up the " able to handle the cold there a bit better "  potential, imo.

Definite filifera look in them in the September 2022 street view when they're nice and green.

 

[jwitt]

I believe looking at street view those are actually hybrids at the Stevens inn.  Looks like most survived 2011, which is impressive.  That inn had filifera back in the late 70's/ early 80's near the road. 

 

If there are robusta that survived Carlsbad in 2011, they could be the world record for cold survival. 

[gdumea]

1 hour ago, jwitt said:

I believe looking at street view those are actually hybrids at the Stevens inn.  Looks like most survived 2011, which is impressive.  That inn had filifera back in the late 70's/ early 80's near the road. 

 

If there are robusta that survived Carlsbad in 2011, they could be the world record for cold survival. 

What about the palm I posted in my pic? I swapped it at a local nursery in town selling a bunch of them, nursery guy said they'd be able to survive and he'd recommend protection for the first year.

[jwitt]

2 hours ago, gdumea said:

What about the palm I posted in my pic? I swapped it at a local nursery in town selling a bunch of them, nursery guy said they'd be able to survive and he'd recommend protection for the first year.

Your pic looks very robusta to me.  

I have seen robusta "persist" up in this area with protection, but they succumb.  

This is Carlsbad after an above average winter(13f) with protection, recovering post defoliation.

 

[gdumea]

8 hours ago, jwitt said:

Your pic looks very robusta to me.  

I have seen robusta "persist" up in this area with protection, but they succumb.  

This is Carlsbad after an above average winter(13f) with protection, recovering post defoliation.

 

So what would you recommend to keep it alive? Christmas lights and burlap?

[flplantguy]

Last spring all the exposed ones in the area were burned badly but were ok. This is common even in las cruces (or was) when i was there in college. My suggestion would be a south facing wall with north wind protection, once it raises above the wall it will be bigger and tougher but may be impacted more than before. The topography may help too with some of the hills and such, this one was very open but some neighborhoods may have better microclimates.

[jwitt]

2 hours ago, gdumea said:

So what would you recommend to keep it alive? Christmas lights and burlap?

I learned the hard way and do not protect, other than passively.  That is my nice way of saying that I have killed a lot of palms and am lazy. Also I like to sleep and not worry. 

Siting would be important as stated in the above post.

With that said, Will Simpson has a method he uses on a robusta in z7bNorth Carolina. He posts about it from time to time. 

 

Another factor about protection in Carlsbad is overdoing it, or cooking the palm.  Because that protection will be up on that 90f day hours before the bottom drops out. Just my thoughts. 

 

[gdumea]

47 minutes ago, jwitt said:

I learned the hard way and do not protect, other than passively.  That is my nice way of saying that I have killed a lot of palms and am lazy. Also I like to sleep and not worry. 

Siting would be important as stated in the above post.

With that said, Will Simpson has a method he uses on a robusta in z7bNorth Carolina. He posts about it from time to time. 

 

Another factor about protection in Carlsbad is overdoing it, or cooking the palm.  Because that protection will be up on that 90f day hours before the bottom drops out. Just my thoughts. 

 

I get what you're saying, it looks like at at maximum all these palms require in Carlsbad is burlap. There are Mexican Fan Palms at Canyon Stone Apartments in Artesia that have also been surviving. I'll try burlap while young and see how it fairs.

 

Thank you

 

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, jwitt said:

I learned the hard way and do not protect, other than passively.  That is my nice way of saying that I have killed a lot of palms and am lazy. Also I like to sleep and not worry. 

Siting would be important as stated in the above post.

With that said, Will Simpson has a method he uses on a robusta in z7bNorth Carolina. He posts about it from time to time. 

 

Another factor about protection in Carlsbad is overdoing it, or cooking the palm.  Because that protection will be up on that 90f day hours before the bottom drops out. Just my thoughts. 

 

Lol you're lazy . Me too. I got tired of worrying about every winter , I killed two palms so far.  Replaced them all with Filiferas and a Pindo . 

[jwitt]

17 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Lol you're lazy . Me too. I got tired of worrying about every winter , I killed two palms so far.  Replaced them all with Filiferas and a Pindo .

Observed and learned from many arctic events. 

 

47 minutes ago, gdumea said:

I get what you're saying, it looks like at at maximum all these palms require in Carlsbad is burlap. There are Mexican Fan Palms at Canyon Stone Apartments in Artesia that have also been surviving. I'll try burlap while young and see how it fairs.

 

Thank you

 

You are welcome. 

Carlsbad is really the only town in NM where protection is somewhat common on palms. In my mind, somewhat overdone and actually detrimental to the palm, sometimes. No need to really wrap a Trachy there, but it is done. 

Over the years in our climate, mass and siting can make a huge difference, enough so, that the big events can be survivable without active protection. ...........on some palms!

[Silas_Sancona]

44 minutes ago, gdumea said:

I get what you're saying, it looks like at at maximum all these palms require in Carlsbad is burlap. There are Mexican Fan Palms at Canyon Stone Apartments in Artesia that have also been surviving. I'll try burlap while young and see how it fairs.

 

Thank you

 

Never hurts to try... doesn't make it, there's always filifera  ..and some Sabal sps ( inc. S uresana )  Med Fans, and maybe a Brahea or two..

[flplantguy]

I wonder of they protect more because of local advice or worry about the desert conditions slowing growth? Las cuces i never saw protection, and after 2011 many friends had posts with dead washies in the background in the outskirts of town, but the ones in choice spots made it. In many places that are so far apart from others (like the west) one person can set the culture (or lack therof) in a place. 

Clovis near the AF base even had some on the south side of a farm, that made it to almost ten feet before they died one winter. I think the owner protected when young, but that area sees screaming north (bitter cold and dry) and southwest (very hot and very dry) winds every winter and spring, down to single digits is typically on a still night but happens every year.  Not a palm friendly place but by the time you reach carlsbad you see cacti and desert life, not high plains stuff.  Something flips like a switch just outside the city, much like leaving the I4 corridor in Central Florida for people from Florida, you go a mile outside lakeland and the plant pallette that can survive changes.  Mountians are an obvious reason to the west but carlsbad does not benefit.  In any case i'm glad they keep planting! After 2011 i figured it was done and i was there in the golden years of palms in Cruces.

[gdumea]

1 hour ago, flplantguy said:

I wonder of they protect more because of local advice or worry about the desert conditions slowing growth? Las cuces i never saw protection, and after 2011 many friends had posts with dead washies in the background in the outskirts of town, but the ones in choice spots made it. In many places that are so far apart from others (like the west) one person can set the culture (or lack therof) in a place. 

Clovis near the AF base even had some on the south side of a farm, that made it to almost ten feet before they died one winter. I think the owner protected when young, but that area sees screaming north (bitter cold and dry) and southwest (very hot and very dry) winds every winter and spring, down to single digits is typically on a still night but happens every year.  Not a palm friendly place but by the time you reach carlsbad you see cacti and desert life, not high plains stuff.  Something flips like a switch just outside the city, much like leaving the I4 corridor in Central Florida for people from Florida, you go a mile outside lakeland and the plant pallette that can survive changes.  Mountians are an obvious reason to the west but carlsbad does not benefit.  In any case i'm glad they keep planting! After 2011 i figured it was done and i was there in the golden years of palms in Cruces.

I know there are mountains near Carlsbad to the south of us, and to the west, but Carlsbad is very hilly and we're almost in a bowl. I live directly on the river, and it seems we have a microclimate in this area. The entire street I'm on is palm lined with Cali Fan palms, hybrids, Trachys, and Mexican Fan Palms. One thing to note is that all the Mexican Fan palms, even mature ones, are wrapped on my street during winter. None of the Cali Fan palms or Trachys are. I think people here are more cognizant of the needs of the Mexican Fan palms vs. Calis and wrap for additional protection. It's either professional landscaping advice or personal knowledge.

 

Anyhow, I guess my question for you is like Jwitts, do you think I can keep them alive on a longer term with protection? They seem to thrive when wrapped, even in Artesia, where it's noticably colder.

 

 

[jwitt]

Carlsbad is the "warmest" place in NM. 

Carlsbad benefits from the mountains and that is a big reason they can be nearly 90f in December.  A Chinook effect. 

While that warm/hot windy weather can be followed by a wind shift and zonal(z8) temperatures can appear in mere hours. 

Alamogordo , Las Cruces, Albuquerque do not see such drastic temperature swings.  While they may see ultimate lows close to Carlsbad, they do not see the warmth to that degree, therefore the swings are smaller.  Maybe the palms are somewhat more dormant?

In my mind, I feel the palms in Carlsbad are sometimes still in growth mode when the cold comes, or at least in a "less" dormant state. Just my thoughts. 

It is a plains/Texas influence. 

I think @gdumea should try whatever palm they choose, just like Silas says.  We all like to learn from success!

 

[flplantguy]

I think you can too, and if you don't try you will always wonder! If i lived there i would, here in florida now i push it too lol.  Share some pics of them as they grow, i miss the scenery there so when people share the desert looking alive its awesome to see. When i lived there we had one year that was like that and it was spectacular! Between that and the aspens in cloudcroft i miss it every year once september and october roll around.

[flplantguy]

25 minutes ago, gdumea said:

I know there are mountains near Carlsbad to the south of us, and to the west, but Carlsbad is very hilly and we're almost in a bowl. I live directly on the river, and it seems we have a microclimate in this area.

This sounds like a good thing, i think you can absolutely create an amazing garden in that spot.

[jwitt]

@gdumea

Have you seen this palm in Roswell? Taco bell on N Main. Complete with 2011 trunk scar. 

[Silas_Sancona]

High plains region of Eastern N.M. is a very interesting part of the country..  Not sure where the pictures i'd seen in the past were taken but, supposedly, there's at least a couple spots between say Vaughn and the hilly country west / S.W. of Carlsbad where ..if what i'd heard and seen is correct,  On a really clear day,  you can see far enough east to see the tops of Thunderstorms that are dropping Tornadoes / tons of lightning over Wichita Falls ..or just west of there. 

Can only imagine what a sunrise would look like from such a spot.  Was burnt in to my memory when seen while headed east and somewhere between Santa Rosa and Tucumcari.  Recall seeing the tops of storms over Amarillo from the same area as well on my crazy 18 or 20 hour trip back to KS from San Jose ( CA ) years ago.

 Climate sounds like a windier / more vulnerable to the extra cold winter air masses version of S. AZ ( Sonoita / Patagonia, Sierra Vista / Douglas,  Sunsites / McNeal, etc... )
 

Terrain, at least where i've passed thru, has a similar look as well, imo.   Bet it looks just as amazing after a wet summer. 
 

[jwitt]

@Silas_SanconaCarlsbad/Roswell sit below in elevation and just west of the "caprock"(Clovis, Amarillo,Lubbock). It is the largest "flattest" land area on earth.  It's when that arctic air coming south down the plains and "spills down, and over the caprock(llano estado), a place where 4 seasons can truly happen in a day. . 

Not often, but consistent over decades. 

And I can believe the thunderstorm viewability. Just not possible from Roswell/Carlsbad, but up on the caprock fifty miles west of Clovis, yes.  Or in the mountains west of Carlsbad/Roswell. 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

2 minutes ago, jwitt said:

@Silas_SanconaCarlsbad/Roswell sit below in elevation and just west of the "caprock"(Clovis, Amarillo,Lubbock). It is the largest "flattest" land area on earth.  It's when that arctic air coming south down the plains and "spills down, and over the caprock(llano estado), a place where 4 seasons can truly happen in a day. . 

Not often, but consistent over decades. 

And I can believe the thunderstorm viewability. Just not possible from Roswell/Carlsbad, but up on the caprock fifty miles west of Clovis, yes.  Or in the mountains west of Carlsbad/Roswell. 

 

  That makes sense ..Can see how the elevation " falls ",  north to south, from say 6Kft up near Gladstone, to 3,300 -32,50ft near Carlsbad on G.E. . Makes sense that would be the chosen path really cold air moving south out of E. CO.  would rush down into / through ...before heading into TX.

Different area, but on the road trip mentioned, i recall being able to see cloud tops ..maybe over the TX / N.M. border?  from somewhere near Gallup along the 40, which i thought was pretty impressive..  Other than some buildups over the mountains near ABQ when passing through / stopping at a rest area, didn't run into any storms until i'd crossed into TX that afternoon.

[jwitt]

I have seen supercells over SE Colorado in the evening from my house in Rio Rancho.  Evening or night is best viewing, as the tops light up from the lightening, which can go from the cloud tops into space(upwards).

Carlsbad/Roswell have the north/south slope(Pecos valley). Less pronounced than the slope to the east(caprock)and west(mountains).  Hence the incredible warmth or swings. Not as pronounced as on the plains(lesser effect) but still there. 

[gdumea]

22 hours ago, jwitt said:

@gdumea

Have you seen this palm in Roswell? Taco bell on N Main. Complete with 2011 trunk scar. 

Is this a Mexican Fan Palm? I've never seen this one in Roswell.

[jwitt]

Hybrid

[flplantguy]

I did not see this recently but its cool to hear people talk about where i used to live with positivity.  The biggest dissapointment moving to florida is the lack of viewing of storms, because growing up out west you could always see them from afar. My family in Henderson NV as a kid had a similar view across the valley and it was amazing. Here in Florida you need a tower or something and it fades into the haze fast. I miss that and the stars at night. The gardening challenges not so much lol.  I do visit from time to time to see them, and i always try to go on a road trip to see how the desert and forest are doing. Driving from Roswell to Las Cruces was a fun drive through the mountains and views. The elevation changes got to me once and gave me a crazy weird headache; I8 leaving San Diego did the same thing on the fast downhill. I have no doubt the microclimates are varied and more diverse than we realize with all the geography, if i had lifetimes to explore them i probably would. Land of Enchantment i scoffed at as a kid there we said "land of entrapment" but i dont feel that way now, it can be magical and i hope your gardens feflect it for you every day.

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, flplantguy said:

I did not see this recently but its cool to hear people talk about where i used to live with positivity.  The biggest dissapointment moving to florida is the lack of viewing of storms, because growing up out west you could always see them from afar. My family in Henderson NV as a kid had a similar view across the valley and it was amazing. Here in Florida you need a tower or something and it fades into the haze fast. I miss that and the stars at night. The gardening challenges not so much lol.  I do visit from time to time to see them, and i always try to go on a road trip to see how the desert and forest are doing. Driving from Roswell to Las Cruces was a fun drive through the mountains and views. The elevation changes got to me once and gave me a crazy weird headache; I8 leaving San Diego did the same thing on the fast downhill. I have no doubt the microclimates are varied and more diverse than we realize with all the geography, if i had lifetimes to explore them i probably would. Land of Enchantment i scoffed at as a kid there we said "land of entrapment" but i dont feel that way now, it can be magical and i hope your gardens feflect it for you every day.

New Mexico is a very interesting area both in terms of  scenery and ecology..  South and eastern side of the state have been on my " to explore more " radar for awhile.. 

" Storm viewing " in Fl was definitely something i was a bit disappointed with as well.. People would give me the confused dog look when explaining some of the differences but, they're quite obvious if you've lived in both areas.

The odd thing is i could view storms -over a much wider distance- in KS then was possible anywhere in FL yet both areas are fairly flat ( Florida obviously more so ) and quite hazy at times during the summer months.  In fact, on my birthday one year, i was sitting on my apartment patio observing the structure of the same storm that was dropping record sized hailstones several hundred miles to the north in Nebraska.

I was also able to easily view / track the storms that caused the massive tornado outbreak that flattened sizable parts of OKC in '99 as they unfolded / slowly moved north into E' rn KS.  later that night.


Agree that growing stuff here ..or in N.M. can have it's challenges ( heat / dryness here,  freak cold there )  ..no way around that, but being totally honest / not candy coating one thing about it, it really isn't that bad / those challenges - a majority of them at least-  have a work around to where i can be content with the outcome i'm seeking, esp. if i had the space to do what i wish i could atm...


Really the only thing missed about FL, < besides easy access to some great nurseries / the plant sale events,  ( Great ones here, but need more ) >  is the beach and associated warm, clear water.

That said, San Diego is just over the hill to the west,   Cabo / Cabo Pulmo < and the Eastern Cape / La Paz >, ...Mazatlan and Puerto Vallarta aren't all that far away if i really want to enjoy a few days ( weeks ) on a " warm " beach.  San Carlos / Guaymas can be reached in 4 - 7 hours easy from here / Puerto Penasco in 2 or 3.  Just need my passport, and a vehicle that i can trust will make the trip to and from, lol. 
 

Yes, haha, i know i can fly to those places too but,  ..i  detest  flying.  ...To Cabo / La Paz  or Puerto Vallarta is about as far as you'll ever see me getting on a plane again. Visiting  Puerto Vallarta and want to take a few days to nose around Lake Chapala / wild areas near Guadalajara?  i'll drive ..or someone will, lol.. Anyway..

As far as crazy down hills ( driven on road trips ) east side of I-8 wasn't too bad.. Was headed west though.

For me, the steep hill along the 101 between Camarillo and Casa Conejo / Thousand Oaks near Los Angeles, and the stretch of Hwy 152 between Los Banos and Gilroy / Hollister up near San Jose were a bit sketchy ..for me.

I'm sure drivers did not appreciate having to pass the slug ssslowlyyy creeping down the hill near Camarillo, lol.  This coming from someone who only goal when on a trip is to get from point A to B as quickly as possible.

 

[flplantguy]

I had some problem with the sudden drop giving me an ice pick headache out of nowhere. Almost went off the edge in my car when it happened too and the drop would have definately been fatal at that spot.  I think it was the pressure change and allergies clogging my sinuses cuasing pain, flying did a similar thing until recently.

[Silas_Sancona]

6 hours ago, flplantguy said:

I had some problem with the sudden drop giving me an ice pick headache out of nowhere. Almost went off the edge in my car when it happened too and the drop would have definately been fatal at that spot.  I think it was the pressure change and allergies clogging my sinuses cuasing pain, flying did a similar thing until recently.

Yeah, that's definitely not good..  Maybe something inner ear related? 

Closest i've come to driving off a road was on my way back to KS..  After briefly falling asleep at the wheel, i decided i had to stop to take a nap. Got -maybe - 20mins worth of sleep before the screaming of someone's kid in an RV parked next to me woke me up. That and the clouds of bugs that had gathered on my windshield made me continue on, despite needing a longer nap.

Drive thru Oklahoma / S. KS after the sun set was " interesting " to say the least..  Spent the whole time thinking i was seeing mountains / tall pine forest along the highway as i drove, along with bridge overpasses and dense fog banks that would pop up right in front of me. At the same time, i was aware that the landscape was flat and treeless..

Somehow made it to my destination ..and even managed to make a 10 mile side trip to where i'd worked before i moved back to CA, just to see if they might be open,  before returning to a truck stop and passing out. 

Fyi: Energy drinks, like Redbull? ..absolutely bull .......   Darn near gave me a heart attack, ..and didn't help keep me awake, -at  -all.

 

[flplantguy]

5 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Fyi: Energy drinks, like Redbull? ..absolutely bull .......   Darn near gave me a heart attack, ..and didn't help keep me awake, -at  -all.

 

Those things are a false foundation for energy and supper dangerous, i cant even do coffee anymore unless its decaf. Doc said leaky valves and low ejection fraction so none of that (or strenuous stuff till they know why and what to do)

Back in the nursery days in my 20s i tried one of theose little shots that was "natural". It wore off and i didnt recognize myself, i was NASTY. Enough that i realized why and threw them out. And the warning labels on some are crazy.