Pygmy palm in Chicago suburbs

[ChicagoBob134]

Hi palm experts! I need help, and I hope I have come to the right place. My name is Bob, and I’m from the western suburbs of Chicago. I have a Pygmy I purchased from Home Depot last summer. I gave it a new home in a pot shortly after bringing it home. The palm did great outside on my patio. I got it indoors before the first freeze. Over the winter though, it didn’t do so well. I’m not sure if I over watered it, or if it’s just in shock or if it’s dead even. The fronds are yellow ( excluding 3-4 of them, those ones are green). I’m assuming I over watered it, and I should let it be for bit. Let the soil dry. Any tips for caring for and bringing it back to life, if at all possible, would be greatly appreciated. Also, when is a good time to bring him back outside? He’s outside now since last week. Is it too early?

[Silas_Sancona]

28 minutes ago, ChicagoBob134 said:

Hi palm experts! I need help, and I hope I have come to the right place. My name is Bob, and I’m from the western suburbs of Chicago. I have a Pygmy I purchased from Home Depot last summer. I gave it a new home in a pot shortly after bringing it home. The palm did great outside on my patio. I got it indoors before the first freeze. Over the winter though, it didn’t do so well. I’m not sure if I over watered it, or if it’s just in shock or if it’s dead even. The fronds are yellow ( excluding 3-4 of them, those ones are green). I’m assuming I over watered it, and I should let it be for bit. Let the soil dry. Any tips for caring for and bringing it back to life, if at all possible, would be greatly appreciated. Also, when is a good time to bring him back outside? He’s outside now since last week. Is it too early?

Welcome to the forum..

might be helpful to include some pictures so we can get a good look at the entire palm.

[ChicagoBob134]

1 minute ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Welcome to the forum..

might be helpful to include some pictures so we can get a good look at the entire palm.

Yeah, that would be helpful wouldn’t it? 🤣 Once I get my kids down for a nap, I’ll go out and snap some pictures. 

[ChicagoBob134]

[PalmatierMeg]

Your Phoenix roebelenii is actually two solitary palms artificially clumped and competing with each other. Both look like they lost. I can't tell but can you tell me whether either palm is sending up a new spear? The older fronds look dead or dying, whether from cold damage or lack of water. Pygmy dates are not desert palms - they are native to the Mekong Delta - and cannot tolerate much drought. In pots they can take temps down to ~32F but you do not want the roots to freeze. If neither palm is sending up a new green frond, it is likely dead.

If I were you I would toss both palms on the compost heap, then replace them with two solitary palms. Roebelenii are cheap and common as dirt so why waste time and energy trying to salvage them? Also, I suggest you do some research on Phoenix roebelenii and their requirements in pots. Palmpedia.net is a good place to start. I find I retain palm info. easier through independent study rather than sitting on my hands waiting for someone to "enlighten" me.

[Leelanau Palms]

Agree with @PalmatierMeg . I'm curious about the indoor setting you have for your palm. I grow palms indoors out of necessity. BTW, go dad!

[ChicagoBob134]

2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Your Phoenix roebelenii is actually two solitary palms artificially clumped and competing with each other. Both look like they lost. I can't tell but can you tell me whether either palm is sending up a new spear? The older fronds look dead or dying, whether from cold damage or lack of water. Pygmy dates are not desert palms - they are native to the Mekong Delta - and cannot tolerate much drought. In pots they can take temps down to ~32F but you do not want the roots to freeze. If neither palm is sending up a new green frond, it is likely dead.

If I were you I would toss both palms on the compost heap, then replace them with two solitary palms. Roebelenii are cheap and common as dirt so why waste time and energy trying to salvage them? Also, I suggest you do some research on Phoenix roebelenii and their requirements in pots. Palmpedia.net is a good place to start. I find I retain palm info. easier through independent study rather than sitting on my hands waiting for someone to "enlighten" me.

Yes, new spears were coming up. They are yellow now. I’ll just assume the poor tree is dead then. That’s a bummer. I’ll for sure be doing some more research with that link you gave me. I appreciate the input. I’ve looked into it before I purchased the tree, but I guess I need to do more digging. No pun intended. Thank you again!

[ChicagoBob134]

2 hours ago, Leelanau Palms said:

Agree with @PalmatierMeg . I'm curious about the indoor setting you have for your palm. I grow palms indoors out of necessity. BTW, go dad!

My indoor setting for the tree was in a room of my house that got a indirect sun light. Window faces east and 2 large trees add for good shade coverage in the front room. Never was in to much direct light ever during the day.  So I also have a grow light that I used on low for a couple hours a day. I thought that was what it needed, but I’m not even sure that’s right anymore. Like I said to Meg, ill have to do more research of caring for these trees if I buy again. 
 

Also, thank you for the “go dad!” Comment! I have 2 boys. 15 weeks and the older one is 2.5 years old. 😊

[Silas_Sancona]

3 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Your Phoenix roebelenii is actually two solitary palms artificially clumped and competing with each other. Both look like they lost. I can't tell but can you tell me whether either palm is sending up a new spear? The older fronds look dead or dying, whether from cold damage or lack of water. Pygmy dates are not desert palms - they are native to the Mekong Delta - and cannot tolerate much drought.    In pots they can take temps down to ~32F but you do not want the roots to freeze. If neither palm is sending up a new green frond, it is likely dead.

 

Agree that something killed it.. Probably a combination of cool / cold wet soil  that caused root rot issues, and / or inadequate light while inside..  Seen the same thing happen w/ Pygmys that were shoved into too much shade/ watered too much in different Nurseries..

Agree too:  if it is totally dead ( I myself might put it outside, in shade, trim off the dead stuff and give it a couple more weeks to see what any spears might do ) chuck it.. and start anew..

To the OP: Unless your summers are frigid, you should be fine placing one outside now - thru  ...whenever sub freezing cold returns up there..


Point of contention:  Folks w/ this odd idea that Pygmys can't survive in hot / dry climates really need to stop w/ this imagined notion.

Perfectly fine in the desert, unless treated worse than a cactus ( which die if not treated right, in the desert, too )..  Btw: Currently 101 after a high of 104F w/ 3% humidity / Dew point bottoming out at 9Deg..  

Far drier outside this time of year here than the inside a house will ever be.     And yet,  ...Man they look awful 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Leelanau Palms]

17 hours ago, ChicagoBob134 said:

My indoor setting for the tree was in a room of my house that got a indirect sun light. Window faces east and 2 large trees add for good shade coverage in the front room. Never was in to much direct light ever during the day.  So I also have a grow light that I used on low for a couple hours a day. I thought that was what it needed, but I’m not even sure that’s right anymore. Like I said to Meg, ill have to do more research of caring for these trees if I buy again. 
 

Also, thank you for the “go dad!” Comment! I have 2 boys. 15 weeks and the older one is 2.5 years old. 😊

I suspect it's too dark there for most palms to thrive. Suspect relative overwatering and darkness as causes of demise. 

[PalmsInBaltimore]

On 6/1/2024 at 7:57 PM, ChicagoBob134 said:

My indoor setting for the tree was in a room of my house that got a indirect sun light. Window faces east and 2 large trees add for good shade coverage in the front room. Never was in to much direct light ever during the day.  So I also have a grow light that I used on low for a couple hours a day.

not enough light is my guess, unless you were seriously underwatering it as well. southern window would've been better, or turning up the grow light and/or running it longer

[ChicagoBob134]

Just now, PalmsInBaltimore said:

not enough light is my guess, unless you were seriously underwatering it as well. southern window would've been better, or turning up the grow light and/or running it longer

Ok at this point I feel like I was way out of my element. Gonna stick to simpler plants for the time being. 

[PalmsInBaltimore]

3 minutes ago, ChicagoBob134 said:

Ok at this point I feel like I was way out of my element. Gonna stick to simpler plants for the time being. 

I wouldn't be too discouraged. In Chicago, you get tons of daylight hours in the summer and it's nice and hot, and stormy. this is the best time of year to try again if the original hasn't died yet. 

From your pictures, I actually would've guessed it was saveable because (a couple of ) the leaves were still partly green. Didn't look underwatered, and these are tropical river palms that love water so it's hard to overwater them, especially in June. Didn't look sunburned either. That being said, I think your pot may have been about 2" too large for that one, and this possibly messed with soil drainage during the indoor months. 

I've only been to Chicago in the summer, and it's glorious enough for almost any container palms except ones with super high heat requirements. pygmy dates should do well there in summer. but when it's time to move it inside, it will need all the light you can provide it, and i would cut back on the watering when it's indoors unless the leaves start curling and turning brown. At least five to six hours of direct light from the sun and grow light combined should do it. Remember, you're taking a plant that loves sun and water and humidity and bringing it inside a cool, dry, (relatively) dark home. You just need to keep it alive during winter, and it will spring back once the temps get warm enough. 

Also, if you repot, only do so in the summer to take advantage of all the daylight and (relatively) high nightime temps, which are good for this type of palm.

Sorry for the long reply, but I hope you don't get discouraged. For us in zones where tree palms won't grow, the pygmy date is special to me, even if it would be pretty unremarkable in hotter places. Happy planting and happy summer!