Houston Freeze

[ahosey01]

Any queen palms or bismarckia or mules or anything of comparable hardiness survive the 2021 freeze?

Was there last weekend and didn’t notice any of these anywhere.  It was all Livistona chinensis, med fans, Washingtonia and a few Phoenix with big trunks.  Oh, and Sabals, which are still everywhere.

[thyerr01]

Functionally no. For the bulk of metro area, say everything North of Pearland, queen palms went from numbering 10s (100s?) of thousands to a handful of surviving individuals. I know of about four, one of which was apparently protected. We've also had two subsequent bad freezes which killed a couple of the 2021 survivors - and a homeowner near me with a few survivors then cut theirs down!

Bismarckia and Mules were never common, presumably due to cost and availability. I don't know of any surviving trunking Bismarckia, some smaller non-trunking ones survived in various members gardens. The only Mules I have ever seen in Houston were up in Spring Branch, but none survived 2021. A large number of Livistona decora were planted along 45, but none of them survived either. Arenga engleri and Acoelorrhaphe wrightii survived, but were even rarer to begin with. 

Survival progressively improves as you head South on 45 past Pearland. Several members have documented large queens in these areas. A large Bismarckia survived in a protected location at a big box hardware store in Webster but was cut down a couple of years later. 

Regarding the CIDP, while no amount of cold in Houston will kill them, they are rapidly dying off due to disease. In just the few years I have lived here, most of the large ones in my area have succumbed to TPPD or fusarium. 

[Ivanos1982]

mules are too expensive here

[ahosey01]

2 hours ago, thyerr01 said:

Functionally no. For the bulk of metro area, say everything North of Pearland, queen palms went from numbering 10s (100s?) of thousands to a handful of surviving individuals. I know of about four, one of which was apparently protected. We've also had two subsequent bad freezes which killed a couple of the 2021 survivors - and a homeowner near me with a few survivors then cut theirs down!

Bismarckia and Mules were never common, presumably due to cost and availability. I don't know of any surviving trunking Bismarckia, some smaller non-trunking ones survived in various members gardens. The only Mules I have ever seen in Houston were up in Spring Branch, but none survived 2021. A large number of Livistona decora were planted along 45, but none of them survived either. Arenga engleri and Acoelorrhaphe wrightii survived, but were even rarer to begin with. 

Survival progressively improves as you head South on 45 past Pearland. Several members have documented large queens in these areas. A large Bismarckia survived in a protected location at a big box hardware store in Webster but was cut down a couple of years later. 

Regarding the CIDP, while no amount of cold in Houston will kill them, they are rapidly dying off due to disease. In just the few years I have lived here, most of the large ones in my area have succumbed to TPPD or fusarium. 

What kind of lows did they see down in Webster during that event and how long were they below freezing?

[Xenon]

CIDP used to be everywhere in the 2000s, especially old ones from 50s and 60s and beyond. They really started dropping like flies around 2010 from TPPD/lethal bronzing. You can still find some old ones randomly across town but very rare. 

I thought Galveston was spared for a while but CIDP are getting ravaged there too. A 100+ year old CIDP died there recently, what a tragedy. 

Houston was a completely different place before that week in February 2021, queens were a very common landscape plant. It'll take a few decades, but it'll get there again most likely. Washingtonia robusta was also even more widespread than it is now, there's probably been a 50-70% reduction in their numbers.

There are large/trunking Bismarckia alive towards the coast around Texas City and Galveston. I've seen some in Friendswood, Kemah, near the bay etc. The very rare queen as well.

It was "only" 16-17F there but the temperature itself wasn't so much the issue but the extremely long duration of hard freeze. Usually the hard freezes aren't of long enough duration to penetrate the bud of these palms and older wood of subtropical trees. 2021 was a different animal and killed all citrus trees in the Houston area, trees that been around since the 90s making hundreds of pounds of fruit every year. 

 

 

 

[Chester B]

Mules are so expensive here. I was told they’ve been bringing them in since the cold and charging a premium for them.  I did look at one house that had two decent ones in the back. 
 

Also my neighbor has two pretty big CIDPs that still look good with thick trunks. 
 

On top of that in my area there are quite a few dactylifera but I’m assuming they were planted after 2021. 
 

The uncommon palms tend to be hidden away in peoples backyards. 

[RedRabbit]

I’ve only been in the area for a short time, but I’ve seen zero older queens and I’ve been in the inner loop most of the time which should be one of the warmest spots. I saw a few young queens and a mule in Sugar Land. For the most part though, it’s Washingtonia, Sabal Palmetto, Windmills, and the occasional Phoenix. 
 

Horticulturally speaking, I thought Houston might be similar to Jacksonville and maybe it has been in the past. From what I’ve seen so far though it seems more inline with coastal South Carolina. 

[Xenon]

47 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

I’ve only been in the area for a short time, but I’ve seen zero older queens and I’ve been in the inner loop most of the time which should be one of the warmest spots. I saw a few young queens and a mule in Sugar Land. For the most part though, it’s Washingtonia, Sabal Palmetto, Windmills, and the occasional Phoenix. 
 

Horticulturally speaking, I thought Houston might be similar to Jacksonville and maybe it has been in the past. From what I’ve seen so far though it seems more inline with coastal South Carolina. 

2021 was closer to an 1989 type freeze (by a looongshot) than anything the east coast has seen since. I don't think you grasp just how cold and anomalous it was. There was no microclimate that was going to stop that blast. Even New Orleans has a record low in the single digits despite urbanization and sitting on the south shore of Lake Pontchartrain. Everything is on borrowed time 😜. 

Houston is pretty much exactly like Jacksonville. There were royals, foxtails, triangle palms, mango trees, etc here at some point for many years. The inner loop even went 13 straight winters without a sub 27 degree freeze. It's much warmer than anywhere in SC long-term. Even with all the horrible freezes, the 30 year average extreme minimum at Houston Hobby is still 27F somehow. 

Really not fair to judge Houston currently after such a freeze that was 12-13F (almost -1.5 zones) below the 30 year average. Imagine Tampa hitting 19F or 20F (and it has). 

TL;DR 2021 demolished everything that was growing for the past 30 years and completely changed the landscape setting it back to quasi zone 8 🤣. 

[RedRabbit]

43 minutes ago, Xenon said:

2021 was closer to an 1989 type freeze (by a looongshot) than anything the east coast has seen since. I don't think you grasp just how cold and anomalous it was. There was no microclimate that was going to stop that blast.

Good point! Houston should have a pretty incredible urban heat island spanning between uptown and downtown so it's odd to me not to see at least one or two queens. You had one-off coconuts surviving in Tampa in 2010 or Sarasota in 1989. Not the case with queens in Houston after 2021 though.

Regardless of the current palm scene, it's a great city. And like most Floridians, I don't actually like queen palms so I don't miss seeing them! 😀

[Xenon]

17 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Good point! Houston should have a pretty incredible urban heat island spanning between uptown and downtown so it's odd to me not to see at least one or two queens. You had one-off coconuts surviving in Tampa in 2010 or Sarasota in 1989. Not the case with queens in Houston after 2021 though.

Regardless of the current palm scene, it's a great city. And like most Floridians, I don't actually like queen palms so I don't miss seeing them! 😀

Oh there are definitely survivor queens but they are 1 in 10,000 or something like that. You can find photos buried somewhere in the cold hardy forum threads. I know of a few in the NASA area. Here's a "silver queen" in Sugar Land, photo taken by me last month.

It's been a horrible 3-4 years to grow palms or even plain old zone 9 stuff here but I haven't subscribed to the doom and gloom yet. It's irritating to constantly hear people moaning you "can't grow queen palms or citrus here anymore, our winters are colder now" when just 4 years ago people were sitting under their 2-3 decade old queens picking buckets of citrus fruits lol. Maybe it's like growing coconuts in St. Pete in the 80s? You would't expect zone 10 streaks to last forever here so why think the same for a string of cold years, just keep on planting 🙂

Google streetview from 2022

 

[Xenon]

12 hours ago, thyerr01 said:

Functionally no. For the bulk of metro area, say everything North of Pearland, queen palms went from numbering 10s (100s?) of thousands to a handful of surviving individuals. I know of about four, one of which was apparently protected. We've also had two subsequent bad freezes which killed a couple of the 2021 survivors - and a homeowner near me with a few survivors then cut theirs down!

Bismarckia and Mules were never common, presumably due to cost and availability. I don't know of any surviving trunking Bismarckia, some smaller non-trunking ones survived in various members gardens. The only Mules I have ever seen in Houston were up in Spring Branch, but none survived 2021. A large number of Livistona decora were planted along 45, but none of them survived either. Arenga engleri and Acoelorrhaphe wrightii survived, but were even rarer to begin with. 

Survival progressively improves as you head South on 45 past Pearland. Several members have documented large queens in these areas. A large Bismarckia survived in a protected location at a big box hardware store in Webster but was cut down a couple of years later. 

Regarding the CIDP, while no amount of cold in Houston will kill them, they are rapidly dying off due to disease. In just the few years I have lived here, most of the large ones in my area have succumbed to TPPD or fusarium. 

How's the unicorn Bellaire queen doing nowadays?

[thyerr01]

@Xenon That one is dead. The one on the other side of the house is the property is still alive (its mostly blurred out in street view). It threw some deformed leaves this year and was slow to recover, but hopefully our recent heat and rain will kick it into full gear.

[thyerr01]

Queen palm in Bellaire, taken today. It wasn't protected in the Dec 22' or Jan 24' freezes, and I assume it had to fend for itself in 2021. It flowered and set fruit in Dec 22' also. It was originally a group of three, one died in 2021 and the other failed to recover after the 2022 freeze.

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, thyerr01 said:

Queen palm in Bellaire, taken today. It wasn't protected in the Dec 22' or Jan 24' freezes, and I assume it had to fend for itself in 2021. It flowered and set fruit in Dec 22' also. It was originally a group of three, one died in 2021 and the other failed to recover after the 2022 freeze.

 

Woah, that looks way better than I expected 🙌.  Thanks for the pic 

[_nevi]

On 5/30/2024 at 11:57 PM, ahosey01 said:

Any queen palms or bismarckia or mules or anything of comparable hardiness survive the 2021 freeze?

Was there last weekend and didn’t notice any of these anywhere.  It was all Livistona chinensis, med fans, Washingtonia and a few Phoenix with big trunks.  Oh, and Sabals, which are still everywhere.

I actually have seen some mules in the Sugar Land area, likely recent plantings that replaced former queens.

Can't remember the specific homes, but the "Sugar Creek" area around 59 has plantings in some homes, as well as another grouping near Hwy 90 ( specifically, Burney Rd, going south from the intersection with Voss). 

[_nevi]

On 5/31/2024 at 8:43 PM, RedRabbit said:

I’ve only been in the area for a short time

Just curious, was this visit before or after 2021?

[RedRabbit]

6 hours ago, _nevi said:

Just curious, was this visit before or after 2021?

Currently in Houston.

[Robert Cade Ross]

On 5/31/2024 at 11:09 PM, Xenon said:

How's the unicorn Bellaire queen doing nowadays?

I saw it two weeks ago looking better now 

Typical ugly fronds at first newest one is full size 

[Robert Cade Ross]

On 6/1/2024 at 9:02 PM, thyerr01 said:

Queen palm in Bellaire, taken today. It wasn't protected in the Dec 22' or Jan 24' freezes, and I assume it had to fend for itself in 2021. It flowered and set fruit in Dec 22' also. It was originally a group of three, one died in 2021 and the other failed to recover after the 2022 freeze.

She lives on 🤣

[Xenon]

On 6/4/2024 at 2:16 PM, _nevi said:

I actually have seen some mules in the Sugar Land area, likely recent plantings that replaced former queens.

Can't remember the specific homes, but the "Sugar Creek" area around 59 has plantings in some homes, as well as another grouping near Hwy 90 ( specifically, Burney Rd, going south from the intersection with Voss). 

I've driven through more than half of residential Sugar Land (yes every little road and cul-de-sac) doing survey work for USDA and yes there are quite a few new looking mule palms.

I saw a bunch of mules at a restaurant near SH 6 heading south from 290. They've been there for many years and there are older ones in private yards too...I'd say they're bulletproof in most of metro Houston, at least to BW8 and/or I10. Katy on I-10 towards 99 has many mule plantings as well, there are like a dozen at the Tiger Woods mini golf place. 

Here's one more on the attractive side in SL (still think they are rather ugly overall lol)

[SeanK]

18 minutes ago, Xenon said:

I've driven through more than half of residential Sugar Land (yes every little road and cul-de-sac) doing survey work for USDA and yes there are quite a few new looking mule palms.

I saw a bunch of mules at a restaurant near SH 6 heading south from 290. They've been there for many years and there are older ones in private yards too...I'd say they're bulletproof in most of metro Houston, at least to BW8 and/or I10. Katy on I-10 towards 99 has many mule plantings as well, there are like a dozen at the Tiger Woods mini golf place. 

Here's one more on the attractive side in SL (still think they are rather ugly overall lol)

They're better looking than the obsoleted Queens.

[Xenon]

32 minutes ago, SeanK said:

They're better looking than the obsoleted Queens.

Both parents are better looking imo. Queens with a full robust crown are beautiful palms. Nothing obsolete about them, easy to acquire and faaast 🙂

[_nevi]

@Xenon @SeanK

The coarser, sturdier frond structure of mules makes them look better when shorter in height (as well as a "stockier" palm for a collection).

Whereas the softer frond structures of queens makes them look better when taller (as well as a more "gracile" palm for the collection).

Not too much a fan of butia palms for some reason.

(imo, of course).

[_nevi]

On 6/4/2024 at 8:51 PM, RedRabbit said:

Currently in Houston.

Oh, I didn't know you were visiting. I actually work in the TMC area.

The lack of zoning needs to put to better use for more densification (aka stronger heat islands)! 😇

[RedRabbit]

2 hours ago, _nevi said:

Oh, I didn't know you were visiting. I actually work in the TMC area.

The lack of zoning needs to put to better use for more densification (aka stronger heat islands)! 😇

TMC is a neat area, I’m just a couple miles from there. 

Houston should really have some great microclimates. There’s not many places you can buy a single family home that’s surrounded by high rises, but it’s actually possible in parts of Houston.

[palmnut-fry]

Thanks for this interesting thread! Peeps are so lazy though. There are still dead stumps all over up here in Big D. Even if palms like Arecastrum are "quick & ez" they pose a maintenance hassle to remove, esp old big ones. I laughed when I saw Home Depot selling a few years back but a few were seen out and about but didn't even make it a few winters!

1989 AND '90 were both horrible long freeze events and '21 - now have been a sad end of tall palms era. I guess we just have to be thankful we can grow what we can and be thankful we didn't ever have enuf money for a mule! 30 years ago I was convinced would grow up here but they'd be dead meat.

Sabals & Trachys & Braheas& Butias carry on...

[SeanK]

On 6/6/2024 at 10:51 AM, Xenon said:

Both parents are better looking imo. Queens with a full robust crown are beautiful palms. Nothing obsolete about them, easy to acquire and faaast 🙂

Perhaps I've seen too many queens that were not well cared for.

[sonoranfans]

On 5/31/2024 at 10:28 PM, Xenon said:

2021 was closer to an 1989 type freeze (by a looongshot) than anything the east coast has seen since. I don't think you grasp just how cold and anomalous it was. There was no microclimate that was going to stop that blast. Even New Orleans has a record low in the single digits despite urbanization and sitting on the south shore of Lake Pontchartrain. Everything is on borrowed time 😜. 

Houston is pretty much exactly like Jacksonville. There were royals, foxtails, triangle palms, mango trees, etc here at some point for many years. The inner loop even went 13 straight winters without a sub 27 degree freeze. It's much warmer than anywhere in SC long-term. Even with all the horrible freezes, the 30 year average extreme minimum at Houston Hobby is still 27F somehow. 

Really not fair to judge Houston currently after such a freeze that was 12-13F (almost -1.5 zones) below the 30 year average. Imagine Tampa hitting 19F or 20F (and it has). 

TL;DR 2021 demolished everything that was growing for the past 30 years and completely changed the landscape setting it back to quasi zone 8 🤣. 

I think its the duration of cold that can be longer in houston than tampa.  I expect that near the gulf that duration is not as long in texas.  Out west the duration can be really short and palmtalkers report lower survival temps for many species.  Palmageddon was a freak event, terrible losses but it may be another 50 years before it happens again.  I would suggest the use of firepits with lots of masonry and wind block to create warm areas for the more sensitive palms..

[Xenon]

1 minute ago, sonoranfans said:

I think its the duration of cold that can be longer in houston than tampa.  I expect that near the gulf that duration is not as long in texas.  Out west the duration can be really short and palmtalkers report lower survival temps for many species.  Palmageddon was a freak event, terrible losses but it may be another 50 years before it happens again.  I would suggest the use of firepits with lots of masonry and wind block to create warm areas for the more sensitive palms..

Oh I would never compare to Houston to Tampa, Tampa is obviously miles miles warmer overall as it should be considering the latitude difference and greater water moderation. Houston long term is very similar to northeast Florida/Jacksonville and has the same mix of interesting microclimates due to urbanization and water moderation. 

2021 just happened to be the advective freeze of the century that obliterated the usual microclimates, even the bay and the Gulf 😂. It really did not matter what kind of water positioning you had in that freeze, the only saving grace was pure latitude and delaying the arrival of the front as long as possible . Just look at Dallas with its metro pop of nearly 8 million yet nearly matched its all time record low despite much higher urbanization compared to the past.