Best Grow Lights

[Alicehunter2000]

I'm moving seedlings indoors for the winter above my dogs kennels. I have a double flouresent light overhead that are probably 48" long that is diffused with a textured plastic (typical work light setup).

What is the best inexpensive grow light that is available at Home Depot or Lowes? A Full Spectrum bulb? other type?

Thanks

[sonoranfans]

(Alicehunter2000 @ Nov. 06 2007,17:55)

QUOTE

I'm moving seedlings indoors for the winter above my dogs kennels. I have a double flouresent light overhead that are probably 48" long that is diffused with a textured plastic (typical work light setup).

What is the best inexpensive grow light that is available at Home Depot or Lowes? A Full Spectrum bulb? other type?

Thanks

The "best light" is an interesting question.  The salt water aquarists(like me) have found that T5 fluorescents deliver more flux per area at a lower operating cost, but with a higher initial cost per bulb.  The best fluorescent lighting is T5, the flux meter measurements show it delivers much more light per watt than VHO and WAY more than standard fluorescent bulbs, but you wont find them at the home depot or wal mart.  I expect they will cost the same to operate+buy as standard bulbs, but they will supply better, more even light to grow your seedlings.  If you are interested, I would search ebay to find an online supplier of "T5 fluorescent grow lights"( a company, not an individual).  they do require a $pecial fixture and balla$t.

[deezpalms]

High Pressure Sodium & Metal Hilide lights are the best for growing plants. However they aren't the cheapest lights around but you would be amazed at the growth rate you'll get using the proper lighting.

[Neofolis]

When I was researching lights last year, before purchasing, I learned a few things.  Firstly, high pressure sodium is the most efficient light source in terms of lumens per watt.  Basically you get more light for the amount it costs to run.  Unfortunately, sodium is mainly red spectrum and thus better for flowering stage than foliage growth.  Metal hallide has the next best luminance efficacy and is mainly blue spectrum, thus better for foliar growth.  The metal hallide lamps are also available in a wider spectrum variety, which closer represents sunlight (daylight).  Unfortunately, whilst high pressure metal lamps are efficient, they are expensive to purchase and replacement lamps are also expensive.  Equally they are usually only available with a minimum output of 250w, which whilst more efficient, will still cost more to run than less efficient fluorescents with a lower wattage.

I chose metal hallide, because our light levels are so low here in winter, particularly when we get down to eight hour days and with the polytunnel cover and insulation, further reducing light transmission.  In a very low light situation, there is really no viable alternative to metal hallide, if you want to see any healthy growth, however, if the temperatures are low enough for the palnts to remain dormant, fluorescents may be sufficient for them to remain healthy.  Also, if the lighting is supplemental, with a reasonable amount of external light still available, fluorescents may be enough to allow healthy growth.

I am using 400w metal hallide for about 14 hours per day and even in the middle of October when our days were just under 11 hours and light levels were higher than average for the time of year, it was still insufficient for some of my plants, despite being within three feet of the light source and that was with a brand new lamp.

Finally, if you do decide to choose metal hallide, it is wise to use a digital ballast.  They are more expensive, but the lights come on almost instantly, compared with a normal few minute warmup period and they extend the useful working life of the lamp.  With a normal ballast lamps are very efficient when new, but the output gradually reduces over time, whereas with a digital ballast the output is maintained at the maximum level for almost the entire life of the lamp.

[sonoranfans]

(Neofolis @ Nov. 07 2007,05:00)

QUOTE

When I was researching lights last year, before purchasing, I learned a few things.  Firstly, high pressure sodium is the most efficient light source in terms of lumens per watt.  Basically you get more light for the amount it costs to run.  Unfortunately, sodium is mainly red spectrum and thus better for flowering stage than foliage growth.  Metal hallide has the next best luminance efficacy and is mainly blue spectrum, thus better for foliar growth.  The metal hallide lamps are also available in a wider spectrum variety, which closer represents sunlight (daylight).  Unfortunately, whilst high pressure metal lamps are efficient, they are expensive to purchase and replacement lamps are also expensive.  Equally they are usually only available with a minimum output of 250w, which whilst more efficient, will still cost more to run than less efficient fluorescents with a lower wattage.

I chose metal hallide, because our light levels are so low here in winter, particularly when we get down to eight hour days and with the polytunnel cover and insulation, further reducing light transmission.  In a very low light situation, there is really no viable alternative to metal hallide, if you want to see any healthy growth, however, if the temperatures are low enough for the palnts to remain dormant, fluorescents may be sufficient for them to remain healthy.  Also, if the lighting is supplemental, with a reasonable amount of external light still available, fluorescents may be enough to allow healthy growth.

I am using 400w metal hallide for about 14 hours per day and even in the middle of October when our days were just under 11 hours and light levels were higher than average for the time of year, it was still insufficient for some of my plants, despite being within three feet of the light source and that was with a brand new lamp.

Finally, if you do decide to choose metal hallide, it is wise to use a digital ballast.  They are more expensive, but the lights come on almost instantly, compared with a normal few minute warmup period and they extend the useful working life of the lamp.  With a normal ballast lamps are very efficient when new, but the output gradually reduces over time, whereas with a digital ballast the output is maintained at the maximum level for almost the entire life of the lamp.

Coming from a salt water aquarium perspective, the T5 fluorescents are quite a bit more efficient than metal halides in the real world because the metal halides lose intensity over time and color shift.  A typical 400w metal halide bulb produces about 40K lumens when new, but its still drawing 400W at 10K hours and producing only 27,000 lumens.  Yes IF metal halides would retain their brightness, they would be king, but they lose 35% of their intensity at 40% of the lifetime(8K hours), and there is a color shift that will reduce the effectiveness of the light further.  T5HO lamps are about 90% the lumens per watt, but lose only 5% of their brightness at the same 8000hr half-life, and there is no color shift.  So at half the lifetime the T5 is far more efficient in lumens/watt(20-25%(?)).  So in order to maintain the metal halide performance you end up replacing the metal halide bulbs($$) alot more to get the same performance as T5HO, which also offer more even light distribution over a wider area.  

Here is a link comparing a 300watt(27K lumens) 6 T5HO system with a 400W(42K lumens) metal halide system through time.  (The graph is a ways down in the article)

http://www.aboutlightingcontrols.org/educati....y.shtml

 Fluorescent lighting offers a number of advantages versus metal halide lighting, including higher efficiency/energy savings, higher lumen maintenance, instant on and re-strike, emergency ballasting options, higher color rendering ability, negligible color shift, lamp-to-lamp color consistency, wide range of color options, and longer lamp life versus 250W metal halide lamps. In addition, fluorescent lamps, as a linear source, offer potentially more uniform lighting, less shadows and less glare. Fluorescent is also easily and inexpensively dimmable and is friendly with switching and control strategies using devices such as occupancy sensors, photocells and scheduling systems.

[oppalm]

I am in zone 6 - brrrrrrrrrrrrr cold in winter.  I bring all my tropicals and palms inside for winter.  Bottom line,  I have experience growing under lights.   For the record - my goal is to keep my plants alive during the winter.   I use many (about 10) 48"  double fluorescent fixtures over my plants with good success.  I use the T-8 bulbs I buy at HD for $2.99 each.   I'll edit my post later to give the exact bulb I purchase.

[Alicehunter2000]

Thank you all for your suggestions.

I too have an aquarium, albeit a fresh water one and I think I know of the lights that you are speaking of. Only one thing.........they cost big $$$$ in the fish magazines.... like Dr. Foster and Smith... and like you said I would have to replace the ballasts. This is probably going to be too much for me as I am very bad when it comes to doing something as simple as replacing a ballist. So I think the T5 will not be what I will go with. If I were doing something more longer term or large scale, this would probably be a good investment.

I will try to purchase a metal halide full spectrum from a big box store here today. They are readily available and I can replace them fairly cheaply.

I really only need to move my seedlings inside for Dec., Jan. and Feb. even though I might move a couple of more tender things inside tonight.

How many hours a day do you think I should leave the lights on? My house temps will be approx. 70-76 degrees?

[sonoranfans]

(Alicehunter2000 @ Nov. 07 2007,13:38)

QUOTE

Thank you all for your suggestions.

I too have an aquarium, albeit a fresh water one and I think I know of the lights that you are speaking of. Only one thing.........they cost big $$$$ in the fish magazines.... like Dr. Foster and Smith... and like you said I would have to replace the ballasts. This is probably going to be too much for me as I am very bad when it comes to doing something as simple as replacing a ballist. So I think the T5 will not be what I will go with. If I were doing something more longer term or large scale, this would probably be a good investment.

I will try to purchase a metal halide full spectrum from a big box store here today. They are readily available and I can replace them fairly cheaply.

I really only need to move my seedlings inside for Dec., Jan. and Feb. even though I might move a couple of more tender things inside tonight.

How many hours a day do you think I should leave the lights on? My house temps will be approx. 70-76 degrees?

Save your self some money on aquariums "Dr. Fosters and Smith" are quite a bit more expensive.  Look up "catalina aquariums," and save 25%.  I'm sure there is some supplier of T5's for plants online, but I dont grow anything under lights.  For a fish tank, the T5 fixures are the same price and the bulbs are about the same but last longer and consume less power.  Never found a good deal on T5's or halides at a big box store(on aquarium lights).  Metal halides are more expensive to operate than T5's it all comes out in the wash anyways.  Thats why the european aquarists have almost abandoned metal halides in favor of T5's, its the power bills necessary to run a tank(and the heat generated by halides, which may actually be good for your palms).

[www.dadluvsu.com]

When I used to grow plants indoors I used a mh/hps fixture...  I like the fact that I could change the bulbs dependant on growth stage, vegetative vs. flowering...  I got mine from a Hydroponics distributor in Stuart, FL (I think it was Stuart, can't remember for sure)...

But for seedlings and lower light requirements I a VHO setup, all parts easily obtainable from any fish store...

My real feeling is that the best plant lights can't be purchased at Lowes or Home Depot...  I can empathize with your desire to not have to scour the eath looking for a light.  I know you can purchase Metal Halide exterior lighting (commercial fixtures) that should be hardwired (you could rig something up) for a decent price and get a high wattage to produce sufficient lighting for palm growing at a decent value...  Do your homework and check on ebay...  I saw some real cheap (maybe in logevity terms, not the cheapest... i dunno)  kits on ebay.... search for "mh hps"...  Mailed to your door for $200 bucks?  Not the worst deal ever!

:cool:

[Alicehunter2000]

eeegggaaadddd! 200 bucks!

That's almost a month of "allowance money" that I give to myself.

I just need a temporary waiting station until spring. I really don't care if they grow ..... I just don't want them to die. It is supposed to get down to 38 degree's tonight ..........uuugggg! Winter is starting early this year.

I am always confused about watering seedlings this time of year. Night time temps in the 40's and day temps in the upper 70's.

Looks like a nice setup down there in Stuart......I used to live there, Went to F.I.T.

[sonoranfans]

(Alicehunter2000 @ Nov. 07 2007,15:25)

QUOTE

eeegggaaadddd! 200 bucks!

That's almost a month of "allowance money" that I give to myself.

I just need a temporary waiting station until spring. I really don't care if they grow ..... I just don't want them to die. It is supposed to get down to 38 degree's tonight ..........uuugggg! Winter is starting early this year.

I am always confused about watering seedlings this time of year. Night time temps in the 40's and day temps in the upper 70's.

Looks like a nice setup down there in Stuart......I used to live there, Went to F.I.T.

One problem about lighting is that you get what you pay for.  A cheap metal halide(MH) is often inferior to an expensive one.  I have read tests that show a 400w metal halide from different manufacturers can have a 30-40% difference in actual light output, and some are really uneven in light distribution.  The HQI double ended bulbs give the best output and of course are the most expensive, but they also last the longest and have the most even distribution of light.  Unfortunately if you get a "really good buy", often it is because it is junk.  I also agree that EBAY is the best place to buy high performance lighting, and the commercial lighting is cheaper than aquarium lighting.  Last I checked you could get a decnet quality MH HQI 250W x2(500w) system including ballast, fixture and bulbs for about $300, the same price I paid for my 432 watt T5HO hood with bulbs.  MH(or T5HO) is so superior to an off the shelf fluorescent shoplight, it not funny.

[sonoranfans]

Hey the metal halide grow lights are alot cheaper than the aquarium lighting.  You may be able to get a 400W one for $100 plus shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Economy....iewItem

[sonoranfans]

here is a 400w T5HO growlight setup for $175, it has the output of a 400W metal halide and supposedly uses half the electricity.  I dont know about half, but there will be a big savings over a 400W metal halide on your electric bill.  Another benefit is it draws less current on startup so it wont trip your circuit breaker the way a metal halide will( a real problem for metal halides).  The T5 ballasts also last longer.

http://cgi.ebay.com/GROW-mh....iewItem

[oppalm]

(oppalm @ Nov. 07 2007,12:23)

QUOTE

I am in zone 6 - brrrrrrrrrrrrr cold in winter.  I bring all my tropicals and palms inside for winter.  Bottom line,  I have experience growing under lights.   For the record - my goal is to keep my plants alive during the winter.   I use many (about 10) 48"  double fluorescent fixtures over my plants with good success.  I use the T-8 bulbs I buy at HD for $2.99 each.   I'll edit my post later to give the exact bulb I purchase.

I could not edit my post so I I'll just quote myself.    The bulbs I buy are Philips F32T8/TL850 - 2950 lumens - 5000K color temperaute.   48".

For a seed starting short term solution and inexpensive set up - thats it.

[Neofolis]

Reduced efficacy and lifespan are a problem with Metal Hallides, which is why I mentioned the digital ballasts, which overcome these problems to a large extent.

[Alicehunter2000]

(oppalm @ Nov. 07 2007,20:48)

QUOTE

(oppalm @ Nov. 07 2007,12:23)

QUOTE

I am in zone 6 - brrrrrrrrrrrrr cold in winter.  I bring all my tropicals and palms inside for winter.  Bottom line,  I have experience growing under lights.   For the record - my goal is to keep my plants alive during the winter.   I use many (about 10) 48"  double fluorescent fixtures over my plants with good success.  I use the T-8 bulbs I buy at HD for $2.99 each.   I'll edit my post later to give the exact bulb I purchase.

I could not edit my post so I I'll just quote myself.    The bulbs I buy are Philips F32T8/TL850 - 2950 lumens - 5000K color temperaute.   48".

For a seed starting short term solution and inexpensive set up - thats it.

Ahhh! that's more like it.........just need to keep them alive for a few months before sticking them back out in the yard. My kind of price.

I'm a little scared, I left my seedlings and germinating seeds outside last night........37 degrees low for 1 or 2 hours.........do you think I killed anything. I have

Kris's Borrasus and Phoenix sylvestris seeds, A. wriighti, Blue latan seedlings, filabusta's, avocado's, Caryota urens.

Does anyone think I killed anything? No frost and it is rapidly warming today.........no more temps below 40 at night for the next 10 days.

[Andrew Burroughs]

How will led lights work as a grow light for Washingtonia , pindo and windmill palms ?

[sonoranfans]

I work for a hemp seed company, we have tested different lights.  LED's are about 3x the efficiency of the next best alternative but you pay up front.  The LED's do however last 10 years(60,000hrs), far more than even HPS(10000 hours).  THey also dont produce heat so ambient temp control is much easier.   Just make sure you get one that has red blue and green LEDS, the cheapos use only Red and blue and due will not get the advantage of  chlorophyl synthesis from chromophores other than chlorophyll.

[sonoranfans]

Just remember placement of LED lighting is different.  The optics used to disperse the light from many point sources means wide NA(numerical aperature) and that means you want to keep the lights within 18" of the top leaf.  Because there is no heat problem with LED's this is not an issue.  Metal halide or HPS are typically placed further away because of their light launch characteristics, at least 24" but deending on vegetation type maybe 36".  All the heat generate by those lights may crisp your palm at less than 24" so they are designed for longer distances.  Best growth speed for LED is about 12-24", much longer and the growth rate slows due to less PAR(photosynthetically active radiation) hitting the leaves.  Because of the wider optics of LED, HPS and MH are better at growing taller plants that have low hanging leaves as well as upper leaves, some palms may be like that, serenoa serenoa repens for example.