Foxtails hardier than Royals…?

[ahosey01]

It would appear that way if I survey the freeze damage in the RGV.  Royals pretty much all got touched, even if just a little.  There are several big foxtails - some like 200ft from royals - with absolutely no damage.  If this is accurate I had this way backwards. 

 

Can anyone confirm or deny for me?

[Xenon]

In the case of last year's freeze, yes. Usually they are about the same +/-, probably not enough to pick one or the other for "cold hardiness" (both serve somewhat different landscape purposes anyway). A big fat healthy royal might be a hair more hardy simply because there's more buffer between cold and the meristem.

FWIW, iirc the furthest north surviving royals in the RGV are ever so slightly north (like <5 miles LOL) of the northernmost foxtails. Or it could just be that royals are more abundant. Once you get into solid royal territory (~US 83 corridor in Hidalgo county and north Brownsville-ish) you start seeing foxtails too so who knows. 

[Harry’s Palms]

My experience is that Wodyetia are a bit more touchy than Roystonea in lengthy cold weather. My Venezuelan Royal has outlived two Wodyetia palms here where the Wodyetia seem to do well….sometimes. I am now hardening off a couple more Wodyetia to plant in a warmer location than the other two that died were. I haven’t seen very cold temps here , nothing below mid 30’s f , rarely below 38f. Harry

[Silas_Sancona]

34 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

My experience is that Wodyetia are a bit more touchy than Roystonea in lengthy cold weather.

I'd agree w/ this.  There is -at least- one longer term Royal in San Jose ( Mentioned here many times. Has been where it is located since 2012 )  Only Foxtail i noted up there ( ....around the same time ironically ) croaked the winter after i noted it ( passed it every time i'd go out to lunch ) . Small and i doubt it got any real care to get it through that not so cold winter ..but..

Was planted where the Orange arrow is in this street view grab. Kings were planted at the same time.



That's not to say a Foxtail can't be grown up there. In an ideal spot / part of the south / east bay, it is possible ..imo..  but,  between the two?  in that part of the world at least?  Royal wins, hands down.

If i remember correctly, Foxtails around Tampa suffered more damage after the 2009 - 10 cold event than royals did.  Ones i'd see 2 x's a week not far from the airport ( Tampa Int. )  got beat up pretty good that winter, temporarily at least. Think some of the smaller ones we sold saw some damage in Largo / Clearwater too.

Royals?  shrug, maybe some minor bronzing right after that freeze. Fine otherwise. Ones i'd see daily / weekly all over Pinellas Co. at least.


 

[TropicalGardenSpain]

Very similar for me in south east Spain but I would go the other way and say my foxtails always look better coming out of winter than my royals, it could be for other reasons like the soil and water I guess but I try to look after them all but feel like my foxtails grow through the winter where as the royals seems to slow right down and then take off again when it warms up.

[PalmatierMeg]

Foxtails failed my 3 Strikes Rule so I won’t plant them again. They seem prone to go into a swivel after exposure to temps in the low 30s, develop nutritional and borer problems. Royals are tougher (they are FL natives, foxtails are Australian and the difference shows) but are prone to potassium deficiency by the end of every winter. FL soils are woefully short on potassium and nitrogen but oversaturated with phosphorus. So, many royals end up with frizzletop, yellow leaves etc. every spring. 

[Harry’s Palms]

2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Foxtails failed my 3 Strikes Rule so I won’t plant them again. They seem prone to go into a swivel after exposure to temps in the low 30s, develop nutritional and borer problems. Royals are tougher (they are FL natives, foxtails are Australian and the difference shows) but are prone to potassium deficiency by the end of every winter. FL soils are woefully short on potassium and nitrogen but oversaturated with phosphorus. So, many royals end up with frizzletop, yellow leaves etc. every spring. 

Meg , I haven’t given up on Wodyetia. There are enough very nice looking ones in my area that give me hope. My Roystonia always looked a little wimpy so just before one of our last storms I dug around the base and added organic fertilizer mixed with fresh mulch and the first frond that opened a couple of weeks ago looks encouraging. Most of my palms need nothing but water but a few will benefit from regular feeding. My Wodyetia I had were planted on the north side of my house , not a good plan. I will plant at least two on the south side this time. As soon as they open a frond . I have been slowly introducing them to their “new digs” for several months. Harry. Here is my attempt to help my Venezuelan Royal

[SubTropicRay]

It's all about the diameter of the growing point.  Many smaller Royals and Foxtails got wiped out in January 2010 freeze across Tampa Bay.  Larger, mature and FAT specimens took a beating and in most cases, came back.  Hardiness is about the same if the plants are mature and FAT.  I will say Wodyetia is NOT a 10b palm as was first believed when these palms were introduced in the early 1990s.  When the temps get below 25F in Florida, it's a case of only the strong survive.  That's when the individuals palm genetics and how well you've cared for it will make or break it.

[sonoranfans]

14 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

It would appear that way if I survey the freeze damage in the RGV.  Royals pretty much all got touched, even if just a little.  There are several big foxtails - some like 200ft from royals - with absolutely no damage.  If this is accurate I had this way backwards. 

 

Can anyone confirm or deny for me?

In 2010, I had small troyals and foxtails both die at 28F two nights in a row.  In mature trees, I have noticed that leaf burn came first on royals, but survivability is not leaf burn.  After watching a few freeze events the last 14 years, it appears to me that royals come back much faster from a cold or wind damage event as if they are well adapted to come back fast from damage.  Foxtails seem to take less damage but then they sit there for a while while before pushing new leaves.  Remember when cold tolerance is mentions its about survival not leaf burn.   I also agree the foxtail is a mid size tree with a smallish crown..  A royal is just a large palm tree one of the largest crownshafted palms.   The royals want to be wet lots of water and the foxtail wants a consistent dry cycle or it will be unhappy. 

[Merlyn]

I'd echo @SubTropicRay on size being critical to survival.  On short duration cold events a big thick trunk = better survival chances.  I lost a whole bunch of skinny young Foxtails to temps in the ~27F range, with frost.  Four bigger ones with significant trunk diameter took some leaf burn but were otherwise fine.  The thick trunk and thick crownshaft means the inner bud doesn't see the same minimum temperature that a skinny palm would see.  Thermodynamics is complicated, but the temperature gradient across a cylinder is pretty simple: for a given temperature exposure and material composition, the cylinder with a larger diameter will always have a higher "core" temperature.

In a couple of spots near me there are a few Royals:

• An RV dealer was built around 2012 and planted some 10-15' tall Royals.  They've all survived fine for a dozen years with no protection and several cold fronts into the upper 20s.
• A neighborhood was built in Lake Mary along the bike path I ride all the time.  One house has 2 royals, and the next door neighbor has (had) 6 Foxtails, all about the 10' height when planted.  The big cold front that hit 24.6F in my backyard defoliated all of them.  The Royals started growing new fronds a few weeks later, and the Foxtails took at least 2 months before they really started growing again.  1 Foxtail died.

Personally I do not have any Royals, because I don't like the idea of a 25' long 50lb frond falling at random from 20+ feet in the air.  I had enough of water oaks dropping big branches on my roof and cars.  I would not *ever* intentionally plant something that did the same...

[kinzyjr]

In Florida, I'd give the edge to Roystonea regia.  There are mature Roystonea regia in southern Jacksonville near Goodby's Creek, but there haven't been any reports of mature Wodyetia bifurcata to my recollection.  Brownsville might be a different story as the climate transitions from the humid climate of the southeast USA to the semi-arid and finally arid climate of the southwest USA.

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

In Florida, I'd give the edge to Roystonea regia.  There are mature Roystonea regia in southern Jacksonville near Goodby's Creek, but there haven't been any reports of mature Wodyetia bifurcata to my recollection.  Brownsville might be a different story as the climate transitions from the humid climate of the southeast USA to the semi-arid and finally arid climate of the southwest USA.

That's a misconception about south Texas imo, it's one of the most humid places in the USA period...and I've been to most all of Florida during the summer months. Just low rainfall. Here's the current conditions and dew point 

[ahosey01]

Just now, Xenon said:

That's a misconception about south Texas imo, it's one of the most humid places in the USA period...and I've been to most all of Florida during the summer months. Just low rainfall. Here's the current conditions and dew point 

Being here I would basically agree.  Many of the tile roofs have mold on them and our windows are always foggy in the mornings.  Even my rear view mirror in my car fogs up when I get in it in the morning.

That said - there's something desert-y that's hard to put my finger on.  When the wind blows, sometimes it feels very dry.  I felt this in @Fusca's yard just today.

I have a Davis VantagePro in my own yard and I have seen the humidity fluctuate on a hot and windy day from 98% in the morning to somewhere around 50%, dip to below 40%, come back up when the wind stops blowing and then be sauna-esque by nightfall.  Other days, it's been a sauna the whole time and it never gets below 80%.  But somehow, despite all of that, it's still been rainfall-free and everything gets full of dust.

I can't really describe this place yet.  I almost feel like Arizona and Florida had a baby and called it the RGV.  I could see where @kinzyjr is coming from because I get the sense that much of Northern Australia is probably like that - some weird convergence zone somewhere between a desert and the tropics.

[Gville Palms]

I was visiting friends in Jacksonville this evening and took a picture of this royal. I’ve known about it for a few years and it has definitely seen some serious cold because it is not protected and it’s not particularly close to water either (it is multiple miles inland). The palm looks pretty terrible every time I see it but it is alive nonetheless. From my observations, they’re tougher than foxtails. 

[Xenon]

10 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

 

I have a Davis VantagePro in my own yard and I have seen the humidity fluctuate on a hot and windy day from 98% in the morning to somewhere around 50%, dip to below 40%, come back up when the wind stops blowing and then be sauna-esque by nightfall.  Other days, it's been a sauna the whole time and it never gets below 80%.  But somehow, despite all of that, it's still been rainfall-free and everything gets full of dust.

 

Relative humidity is deceptive, dew point is a better indicator of how much total moisture is in the air. Yes the relative humidity was "only 60%" yesterday afternoon but it was 95F with a 79F dew point...very oppressive 

[ahosey01]

1 minute ago, Xenon said:

Relative humidity is deceptive, dew point is a better indicator of how much total moisture is in the air. Yes the relative humidity was "only 60%" yesterday afternoon but it was 95F with a 79F dew point...very oppressive 

Is there like a youtube video or something somewhere that would explain this distinction to me?

[Xenon]

2 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

Is there like a youtube video or something somewhere that would explain this distinction to me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mYWhkFm0io

Now look at that nasty air temp + dew point combo (heat index) from yesterday

 

[Rain52]

On 5/23/2024 at 2:06 AM, Xenon said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mYWhkFm0io

Now look at that nasty air temp + dew point combo (heat index) from yesterday

 

 

[Bkue]

In central Fla I agree on foxtails. As evidenced by the many mature and lack of royals. I grow royals but am cognizant of the potential. Oviedo area. 

[Husain]

 I would go the other way and say Royals are much stronger than foxtail in handling the heat. Foxtails will be cooked for a temperature more than 40 degrees Celsius 

[happypalms]

On 5/20/2024 at 9:54 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

Foxtails failed my 3 Strikes Rule so I won’t plant them again. They seem prone to go into a swivel after exposure to temps in the low 30s, develop nutritional and borer problems. Royals are tougher (they are FL natives, foxtails are Australian and the difference shows) but are prone to potassium deficiency by the end of every winter. FL soils are woefully short on potassium and nitrogen but oversaturated with phosphorus. So, many royals end up with frizzletop, yellow leaves etc. every spring. 

I guess iam lucky to be an Australian where foxtails are a weed in most gardens.  My ones haven’t started flowering yet but iam dreading the day they do. I will have hundreds of seeds to clean up. Darwin (Northern territory) city council has asked people to not plant them they grow that fast in the hot tropics in far north NT. 

[Harry’s Palms]

A year and 5 months later since my last post on this thread . My Roystonia Oleracae has been getting at least twice as much water and is doing MUCH better . The juvenile Wodyetia are growing nicely ( slow at this stage) . The Roystonia , in my opinion , still the stronger grower in my area , for me. A Regia would be a more robust palm than the Oleracae . Harry

[Bkue]

On 10/15/2025 at 4:47 AM, Husain said:

 I would go the other way and say Royals are much stronger than foxtail in handling the heat. Foxtails will be cooked for a temperature more than 40 degrees Celsius 

Explain why foxtails are 100:1 to royals? I have royals and no foxtails and hope you are right but proof is in the pudding so speak. 

[aztropic]

8 hours ago, Bkue said:

Explain why foxtails are 100:1 to royals? I have royals and no foxtails and hope you are right but proof is in the pudding so speak. 

Size. The smaller stature of foxtails is more appealing for planting in an average single family home lot. Also, foxtails are more commonly available from big box stores that rarely carry royals.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[96720]

In my opinion the royal is much tougher to heat (sun) and cold!!! I have a foxtail very slow and doesn’t like the sun foxylady seems to be better than foxtail but mine is still young!!! Was in plantstand and they brought in a lot of nice foxtails I don’t know if they will show up here or be shipped to California!!

[sonoranfans]

 The length of cold and the type of cold matter.   Also young plants are not as cold hardy as established palms.  A radiational event the typical royal bud is much higher off the ground, so it will see a warmer temp.   An advective event the height gets you no warmth.  On the length of cold a larger mass cools slower for a quick dip in temps.  How many hours below freezing will determine the temperature of the bud which determines survival.  I had 3 royals and 2 foxtails die in Dec 2010 at 28F in a radiative event, all were small.  Larger royals and foxtails were damaged but pulled through.  Id give the edge to foxtails on leaf tenderness to cold but that is not cold hardiness.  Cold hardiness is how cold it can become without death of the palm.  Foxtails also do poorly with wet soil in the cold, that doesnt seem to be a royal problem as they don't mind wet feet in the cold.    We have lots of big royals near me, and we also have some 25 foot or taller foxtails.  Because the coldest events here are radiative, the royals get an edge if they can get some height on the bud before a 28 degree cold event.  More noticeable is how fast they recover from leaf damage, the royals are notably faster.   Foxtails took an extra year to recover from the 28 degree cold event.

[quaman58]

In SoCal, royals seem able to reach their full potential, while foxtails do not. There are plenty of decent foxtails around, but they seem to require more year-round warmth to reach the proportions that I assume they reach in habitat. Certainly the Hawaiian specimens get really big and the crowns are just magnificent. I like the ones I’m growing, but they spot every winter; the royals just cruise through winter without much complaint. 

[sonoranfans]

10 hours ago, quaman58 said:

In SoCal, royals seem able to reach their full potential, while foxtails do not. There are plenty of decent foxtails around, but they seem to require more year-round warmth to reach the proportions that I assume they reach in habitat. Certainly the Hawaiian specimens get really big and the crowns are just magnificent. I like the ones I’m growing, but they spot every winter; the royals just cruise through winter without much complaint. 

They spot in winter here too, mostly on those planted near the houses in heavy clay foundation soil.  Might have to do with wet cool roots.  There are foxtails here that look very nice, a s long as they are planted way from house slabs by at least 15'.  Landscapers planted foxtails up near the slab  on my property, they looked unhappy and when the cold hit they went bad, mold spot everywhere.  Foxtails do seem to be more susceptible to mold spotting and micro nutrient deficiencies here in that heavy soil.  Royals, no problem they just need water.