Queen Palm help

[gratkov]

Hello, 

I am new to palmtalk. I recently bought a house in Palm Springs, Ca and the backyard has 5 massive Queen Palms. I know they do horrible in Palm Springs, but I am not in a position to replace them with something else at the moment. 
 

I know they need lots of help. This was an Airbnb property and I don’t think they were really cared for. Any ideas on what I can do to get them in better shape? 
 

thank you! 

[ahosey01]

Start with water.  You basically cannot overwater these.  How often is your timer running and for how long?  What is your soil composition - sand or clay?

Another thing I've noticed is the very few I ever saw in AZ / SE CA that looked good is they were all planted in lawns.  Can you put grass in where the palms are?

Third - you could do a large-scale amendment job around the palm's base, but this would take years to begin to have an effect.  @sonoranfans may have some fertilizing suggestions also.

[SeanK]

I don't understand how you can afford a house in Palm Springs yet not afford to replace those queens.

[Harry’s Palms]

I would put the hose to the root area on slow drip until the soil is thoroughly soaked. Then plan on replacement palms. Queen palms don’t seem to do well in the extreme climate of Palm Springs. The palms in the photos actually look better than most I’ve seen out there.  The Washingtonia seem to do quite well in that area. Harry

[sonoranfans]

maintaining queen palms in the desert like I did in arizona was difficult.  They need water water water and they are fertilizer pigs and will show deficiencies easily.  Every time you water you rinse away fertilizer to some extent.  If you soil drains well as they like, its a vicious cycle.  I dont consider them adaptable to desert climates.  And the older they get, the tougher it for the palm to push that water to the crown which will transpire lots of water in a dry heat.  I grew some nice queens in AZ but I could see the writing on the wall, like paddling up a waterfall.  I think there are other better adapted palms for the desert:  Bismarckia, phoenix, washingtonia filifera, brahea armata, sabal uresana etc.    Looks like the zones in palm springs are from 8b to 10a, you should find your zone and as in this forum what grows best from perhaps inland SoCal and Arizona members.

[Darold Petty]

Welcome to Palmtalk !  

[gratkov]

7 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

Start with water.  You basically cannot overwater these.  How often is your timer running and for how long?  What is your soil composition - sand or clay?

Another thing I've noticed is the very few I ever saw in AZ / SE CA that looked good is they were all planted in lawns.  Can you put grass in where the palms are?

Third - you could do a large-scale amendment job around the palm's base, but this would take years to begin to have an effect.  @sonoranfans may have some fertilizing suggestions also.

Thanks for your response! The soil composition is sand. I am headed to the house today (it’s currently being remodeled), I will check out the timer and send a picture of where they are planted - t think most of the roots are under grass.

[gratkov]

5 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Welcome to Palmtalk !  

Thank you!l very much ! 

[gratkov]

5 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

maintaining queen palms in the desert like I did in arizona was difficult.  They need water water water and they are fertilizer pigs and will show deficiencies easily.  Every time you water you rinse away fertilizer to some extent.  If you soil drains well as they like, its a vicious cycle.  I dont consider them adaptable to desert climates.  And the older they get, the tougher it for the palm to push that water to the crown which will transpire lots of water in a dry heat.  I grew some nice queens in AZ but I could see the writing on the wall, like paddling up a waterfall.  I think there are other better adapted palms for the desert:  Bismarckia, phoenix, washingtonia filifera, brahea armata, sabal uresana etc.    Looks like the zones in palm springs are from 8b to 10a, you should find your zone and as in this forum what grows best from perhaps inland SoCal and Arizona members.

Yes, I’ve been told this by a few people. I wish the prior homeowners planted something other than queens. My plan is to replace rhem in a couple years or so. They are massive, frame the pool area, and provide shade. If they were smaller I’d get rid of them right now. 

[gratkov]

6 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

I would put the hose to the root area on slow drip until the soil is thoroughly soaked. Then plan on replacement palms. Queen palms don’t seem to do well in the extreme climate of Palm Springs. The palms in the photos actually look better than most I’ve seen out there.  The Washingtonia seem to do quite well in that area. Harry

How often would you recommend soaking them?   Washingtonia palms are beautiful, and would look good in my landscaping. When I replace these I will definitely consider them 

[gratkov]

6 hours ago, SeanK said:

I don't understand how you can afford a house in Palm Springs yet not afford to replace those queens.

I don’t understand why you’d leave such a worthless comment. I’m doing an entire house remodel and the palms aren’t in the budget. Do you have any idea how much it cost to get rid of  these 5 queens that are over 30 feet tall and replace them with other mature palms? 

[SeanK]

25 minutes ago, gratkov said:

I don’t understand why you’d leave such a worthless comment. I’m doing an entire house remodel and the palms aren’t in the budget. Do you have any idea how much it cost to get rid of  these 5 queens that are over 30 feet tall and replace them with other mature palms? 

OK. Here's a practical comment. Take out the queens because they'll never look good. The previous owner had them hurricane cut because all the other leaves were dead. Palm Springs receives approximately 5 inches of rain per YEAR. Those palms need 5 inches per month.

https://vacationpalmsprings.com/palm-springs-temperature-month-and-season#:~:text=The total annual rainfall in,less—for the yearly total.

I would replace them with Mediterranean Fan Palms and Washingtonias. If your budget improves, call up and see if this place has any Brahea armata.

https://www.facebook.com/p/Ellis-Farms-100070947092805/

 I hope you bought at a good foreclosure price. 

--------

None of this is meant to be mean spirited. It's cheaper to maintain desert palms in desert climates. I also know that folks buy real estate based on monthly payments, not price. Don't expect the FED to drop rates this year. Government spending has released too much money into the economy.

Cheers, Sean

[sonoranfans]

In arizona I used to water my queens every other day when the heat was above 102F high.  What I didnt mention in my above post is the amount of water needed for a large tree is eye opening when they are singles.  In arizona, I planted my 9 queens in triples so they shaded each other and shared irrigation drippers.  Watering duration required is long since depth is a length of watering thing in clay soils.  I would say each one of those queens will need a couple cups of palm fertilizer and given 30 gallons minimum every other day in the heat.  When temps are under 102F you could water every 3rd day, same amount of gallons.   In winter watering is more every 4th or 5th day thing depending on heat. When I said I knew where it was leading was partly to a huge water bill to keep them happy.  The bigger they get the more water they need and those are huge.  Those trees are out in the blazing sun, not much shade from any other tree.  I learned that the only palms that like that solo planting situation in nasty hot desert sun are desert palms.

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, gratkov said:

I don’t understand why you’d leave such a worthless comment. I’m doing an entire house remodel and the palms aren’t in the budget. Do you have any idea how much it cost to get rid of  these 5 queens that are over 30 feet tall and replace them with other mature palms? 

Definitely would not be cheap, so waiting to chop n' replace is perfectly acceptable... Gives you some time to consider alternatives anyway.. Perhaps some that aren't as commonly seen out there, rather than replacing w/ the same Mex Fans everyone else has..  Go the California Fan Palm route ( Washingtonia filifera ) if you want something fairly common.

Mules, a cross between a Queen and Pindo palm will handle the heat there much better than Queens ..Are slowly working their way into more yards here where it's about as hot as Palm springs,  and queens don't do well ( 98% of the time at least )

Coconut Queens, another -much nicer- looking cross involving Queen palms are another consideration, though i'm not sure how they might fare in P.S. vs. closer to the coast.

Believe it or not but there are a few folks out there bravely growing Coconuts ..A few of the nicer looking ones that have been mentioned on the forum here in the past were cut down unfortunately.

Brahea ..armata and brandegeei in particular.. are perfectly adapted to the heat out there.

Harder to find, ( thinking a few nurseries out there may be growing them now ) but, the silver form of Sabal uresana ..sometimes called the " Sonoran Palmetto " is another more unique fan leaf- type palm option..

@mnorell i'm sure will be able to add more ideas since he also lives out there /  knows the areas well.


Green Desert Nursery in Indio is a great place to take a look into. Wholesale, but may let you wander around looking at stuff.  

Numerous bigger and smaller nurseries closer to San Diego / the Inland Empire  that you can look into as well,  Many owned by Palm talk members here.

Congrats on the purchase, and Welcome to the forum  ...X2

[ahosey01]

Copernicia alba may also do reasonably well for you.

[NorCalWill]

Nice that you bought a house in P.S., congrats. That's my goal too.

I always wonder why people plant Queen Palms in Palm Springs when they look so horrible there.

I think all you can do is trim them up the best you can and keep them well watered until you can have them removed someday. They'll still look ugly, but at least you tried. Good luck.

[Harry’s Palms]

I think if you keep them watered every other day , as was suggested , they should survive.  I do think they are doing well given the environment. You may consider some heavy mulch like wood chips or fibrous “gorilla hair” to keep the ground around the palm insulated from the hot , dry sun. Harry

[gratkov]

2 hours ago, NorCalWill said:

Nice that you bought a house in P.S., congrats. That's my goal too.

I always wonder why people plant Queen Palms in Palm Springs when they look so horrible there.

I think all you can do is trim them up the best you can and keep them well watered until you can have them removed someday. They'll still look ugly, but at least you tried. Good luck.

Yah, I realize that they will never look how I want them to look, but I’ll replace them soon. I think they planted them back in 2000 when this area of Palm Springs I am living in  started to develop. I’d say about half the neighbors have gotten rid of them.. I will someday too.    

come to Palm Springs soon! It’s a beautiful place . 

[gratkov]

3 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

Copernicia alba may also do reasonably well for you.

2 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

I think if you keep them watered every other day , as was suggested , they should survive.  I do think they are doing well given the environment. You may consider some heavy mulch like wood chips or fibrous “gorilla hair” to keep the ground around the palm insulated from the hot , dry sun. Harry

Thank you! I’ll check them out! 

[gratkov]

3 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Definitely would not be cheap, so waiting to chop n' replace is perfectly acceptable... Gives you some time to consider alternatives anyway.. Perhaps some that aren't as commonly seen out there, rather than replacing w/ the same Mex Fans everyone else has..  Go the California Fan Palm route ( Washingtonia filifera ) if you want something fairly common.

Mules, a cross between a Queen and Pindo palm will handle the heat there much better than Queens ..Are slowly working their way into more yards here where it's about as hot as Palm springs,  and queens don't do well ( 98% of the time at least )

Coconut Queens, another -much nicer- looking cross involving Queen palms are another consideration, though i'm not sure how they might fare in P.S. vs. closer to the coast.

Believe it or not but there are a few folks out there bravely growing Coconuts ..A few of the nicer looking ones that have been mentioned on the forum here in the past were cut down unfortunately.

Brahea ..armata and brandegeei in particular.. are perfectly adapted to the heat out there.

Harder to find, ( thinking a few nurseries out there may be growing them now ) but, the silver form of Sabal uresana ..sometimes called the " Sonoran Palmetto " is another more unique fan leaf- type palm option..

@mnorell i'm sure will be able to add more ideas since he also lives out there /  knows the areas well.


Green Desert Nursery in Indio is a great place to take a look into. Wholesale, but may let you wander around looking at stuff.  

Numerous bigger and smaller nurseries closer to San Diego / the Inland Empire  that you can look into as well,  Many owned by Palm talk members here.

Congrats on the purchase, and Welcome to the forum  ...X2

Thanks for much for the info. I’ll be checking out Green Desert Nursery. 

[gratkov]

3 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

In arizona I used to water my queens every other day when the heat was above 102F high.  What I didnt mention in my above post is the amount of water needed for a large tree is eye opening when they are singles.  In arizona, I planted my 9 queens in triples so they shaded each other and shared irrigation drippers.  Watering duration required is long since depth is a length of watering thing in clay soils.  I would say each one of those queens will need a couple cups of palm fertilizer and given 30 gallons minimum every other day in the heat.  When temps are under 102F you could water every 3rd day, same amount of gallons.   In winter watering is more every 4th or 5th day thing depending on heat. When I said I knew where it was leading was partly to a huge water bill to keep them happy.  The bigger they get the more water they need and those are huge.  Those trees are out in the blazing sun, not much shade from any other tree.  I learned that the only palms that like that solo planting situation in nasty hot desert sun are desert palms.

I figured they would need that much water. Any fertilizer you recommend? 

[gratkov]

12 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

Start with water.  You basically cannot overwater these.  How often is your timer running and for how long?  What is your soil composition - sand or clay?

Another thing I've noticed is the very few I ever saw in AZ / SE CA that looked good is they were all planted in lawns.  Can you put grass in where the palms are?

Third - you could do a large-scale amendment job around the palm's base, but this would take years to begin to have an effect.  @sonoranfans may have some fertilizing suggestions also.

This is how they are planted.. so, half in the grass I suppose. 

[ahosey01]

1 minute ago, gratkov said:

This is how they are planted.. so, half in the grass I suppose. 

Okay so - 

First, mulch.  Mulch the hell out of that area.  Don't be afraid to pile it high around the root zone.  In my garden in Arizona, I regularly had 6-8 inches of mulch in the root zone of water-hungry species.

Second, water.  It looks like they're on drip - I believe I see spaghetti tubes.  How often are your drippers in that zone running, and for how long?  Do you know if they are 1/2/3/4 GPH drippers?  You said your soil is sand, correct?

[gratkov]

4 hours ago, SeanK said:

OK. Here's a practical comment. Take out the queens because they'll never look good. The previous owner had them hurricane cut because all the other leaves were dead. Palm Springs receives approximately 5 inches of rain per YEAR. Those palms need 5 inches per month.

https://vacationpalmsprings.com/palm-springs-temperature-month-and-season#:~:text=The total annual rainfall in,less—for the yearly total.

I would replace them with Mediterranean Fan Palms and Washingtonias. If your budget improves, call up and see if this place has any Brahea armata.

https://www.facebook.com/p/Ellis-Farms-100070947092805/

 I hope you bought at a good foreclosure price. 

--------

None of this is meant to be mean spirited. It's cheaper to maintain desert palms in desert climates. I also know that folks buy real estate based on monthly payments, not price. Don't expect the FED to drop rates this year. Government spending has released too much money into the economy.

Cheers, Sean

thanks for the link to Ellis Farms, I’ll check it out. This isn’t my first home purchase, and I am well aware of the economic outlook and am well educated with a degree in economics and an MBA. I barely have a loan on this property, so I am not on my knees waiting for the interest rates to drop as you suggested. 
 

cheers 

[gratkov]

3 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

Okay so - 

First, mulch.  Mulch the hell out of that area.  Don't be afraid to pile it high around the root zone.  In my garden in Arizona, I regularly had 6-8 inches of mulch in the root zone of water-hungry species.

Second, water.  It looks like they're on drip - I believe I see spaghetti tubes.  How often are your drippers in that zone running, and for how long?  Do you know if they are 1/2/3/4 GPH drippers?  You said your soil is sand, correct?

Hi - thanks so much for the reply.  Should I use wood chips, or what type of mulch? 
 

Today I ran the garden hose out and soaked them. That’s what you see in the pic.  They are also on a system with sprinklers and a drip ( but just a dribble from one spot), not spaghetti tubes. 
 

To be honest, I think it’s sand. I’m very new to gardening so I’ll have to look into this more. When I step on it, it’s spongy. 
 

I’m all ears, thanks for your help 

[ahosey01]

14 minutes ago, gratkov said:

Hi - thanks so much for the reply.  Should I use wood chips, or what type of mulch? 
 

Today I ran the garden hose out and soaked them. That’s what you see in the pic.  They are also on a system with sprinklers and a drip ( but just a dribble from one spot), not spaghetti tubes. 
 

To be honest, I think it’s sand. I’m very new to gardening so I’ll have to look into this more. When I step on it, it’s spongy. 
 

I’m all ears, thanks for your help 

Okay let's run down the list...

Should I use wood chips, or what type of mulch?

Any ground up organic matter that you can spread over the root zone.  The point is to keep the sun off and the humidity in.  A lot of times, you can call local tree trimming services and ask them for their chips and they'll bring them to you.  I like wood chips generally.

Today I ran the garden hose out and soaked them. That’s what you see in the pic.  They are also on a system with sprinklers and a drip ( but just a dribble from one spot), not spaghetti tubes. 

This has to change.  If you have clay, you should have these on a set of slow drippers (1/2 GPH) and if you have sand, you should have them on a set of fast ones (2 GPH).  I would recommend four drippers per palm.  Generally, in highly alkaline soil (which you almost certainly have) you don't actually want your palm to be sopping wet constantly, because it binds up nutrients and makes uptake difficult.  If it were me, I'd water them every 2 or 3 days for several hours per day on four drippers (i.e. 4 hours per day on 4 2GPH drippers in sand).  This would be 32 gallons per palm every day you watered.  This is in line with @sonoranfans recommendation.

 

To be honest, I think it’s sand. I’m very new to gardening so I’ll have to look into this more. When I step on it, it’s spongy. 

Easy test for you - get a handful of it and spray some water on it.  Make it wet but not liquid.  Try and form it - does it hold shape or does it fall apart?  If it is clay, it will hold shape.  If it falls apart, it is sand.  Somewhere in the middle can be silt, sandy clay, etc..

 

You may also benefit from the addition of sulfur in the root zone.  Arizona's Best makes a good product that does not get locked up in most desert soils.  But without a soil test, this is a game of "most likely this will help  you."  Mulch is key, though.

 

I snipped this from google maps since now I live thousands of miles away.  But this, here, is a queen palm planted in downtown Phoenix in the middle of the concrete jungle.  This is a terrible place for queens, but you can see how good they can look with the right care (and trust me, you're going to have a lot of care to get from where you are to where this is, if it's even possible):

[NorCalWill]

4 hours ago, gratkov said:

Yah, I realize that they will never look how I want them to look, but I’ll replace them soon. I think they planted them back in 2000 when this area of Palm Springs I am living in  started to develop. I’d say about half the neighbors have gotten rid of them.. I will someday too.    

come to Palm Springs soon! It’s a beautiful place . 

I'll be there in June. Let me know if you want me to bring my chainsaw with me...lol

[Merlyn]

In addition to the great advice from @ahosey01, I noted that all the queens appear to be suffering from a long-term serious boron deficiency.  This causes fused spears, distorted leaflets, and *might* be the cause of "leaning crown syndrome" like in picture 2 in your original post.  Almost every one of them has the tapered "V" shape to the fronds with necrotic tips.  You can see more of that here:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/EP264

Fertilizer will supply boron, usually around 0.1% or so.  Mulch deteriorates over time and also provides boron.  Personally I'd fix the boron deficiency first, as it's easy and cheap.  Give each of them a dose of boron with something like a tablespoon of borax powder in 5 gallons of water per palm.  Don't repeat for at least a couple of months. 

For fertilizer, the usual recommendation is Palmgain or Florikan 8-2-12.  The rate is 1.5lb of 8-2-12 for every 100sqft of canopy.  For a 20' diameter queen that's about 4.7lb per palm.  To me that seems like an awful lot, especially given how small the current crowns are.  I'd maybe cut that in half.  You can also use cheaper fertilizers, I just put down about 100lb of Sunniland 6-1-8 on my ~300 in-ground palms.

[sonoranfans]

I agree with @ahosey01 and @merlyn on the actions needed.  By upgrading to more drippers the next palm you do put in will get a better move even (radially) drink which will result in a healthier fuller palm.  On fertilizers, you need a controlled or slow release fertilizer formulated for palms in sandy environments.  Installing such a meager irrigation setup shows how little the landscapers knew about what palms need in the desert.  

[Tomas]

3 hours ago, Merlyn said:

In addition to the great advice from @ahosey01, I noted that all the queens appear to be suffering from a long-term serious boron deficiency.  This causes fused spears, distorted leaflets, and *might* be the cause of "leaning crown syndrome" like in picture 2 in your original post.  Almost every one of them has the tapered "V" shape to the fronds with necrotic tips.  You can see more of that here:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/EP264

Fertilizer will supply boron, usually around 0.1% or so.  Mulch deteriorates over time and also provides boron.  Personally I'd fix the boron deficiency first, as it's easy and cheap.  Give each of them a dose of boron with something like a tablespoon of borax powder in 5 gallons of water per palm.  Don't repeat for at least a couple of months. 

For fertilizer, the usual recommendation is Palmgain or Florikan 8-2-12.  The rate is 1.5lb of 8-2-12 for every 100sqft of canopy.  For a 20' diameter queen that's about 4.7lb per palm.  To me that seems like an awful lot, especially given how small the current crowns are.  I'd maybe cut that in half.  You can also use cheaper fertilizers, I just put down about 100lb of Sunniland 6-1-8 on my ~300 in-ground palms.

Yes, boron, I agree and without fixing that problem you can give as much water and fertilizer as you want and the palms will still look bad.

But someone mentioned probable high pH, will the application to the root zone still work? Boron uptake depends greatly on the pH. My pH is above 8 and I spray the microelement directly on the leaves, but I can imagine it is not all that fun to spray the leaves at 30 feet height.

Btw, what are the holes in the trunk in the first picture of the second part?

[PalmatierMeg]

13 hours ago, NorCalWill said:

I'll be there in June. Let me know if you want me to bring my chainsaw with me...lol

Good idea. I wouldn't waste precious water and fertilizer on those wretched things. Turn them into mulch and save a few bucks. Then replace them with Braheas, Copernicias, even Bismarckia. Desert palms that will do Palm Springs proud and make the neighbors smile. But no Washingtonias, native or not. I'm sure Palm Springs has standards

[Merlyn]

@Tomas true, pH will definitely matter.  Decaying mulch will help reduce the pH of the soil, but if it's in the >7 range it's going to limit how much can be absorbed through the roots.  Here's a chart I found a while back:

[ahosey01]

6 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Good idea. I wouldn't waste precious water and fertilizer on those wretched things. Turn them into mulch and save a few bucks. Then replace them with Braheas, Copernicias, even Bismarckia. Desert palms that will do Palm Springs proud and make the neighbors smile. But no Washingtonias, native or not. I'm sure Palm Springs has standards

There's a queen about two miles up the road from my house that is one of the best looking palms I've ever seen.  They're not all wretched.  Just almost all.  lol

I'll have to snap a pic.

[Silas_Sancona]

7 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Good idea. I wouldn't waste precious water and fertilizer on those wretched things. Turn them into mulch and save a few bucks. Then replace them with Braheas, Copernicias, even Bismarckia. Desert palms that will do Palm Springs proud and make the neighbors smile. But no Washingtonias, native or not. I'm sure Palm Springs has standards

I know you've seen pictures from there.     Washingtonia heaven -everywhere-  out there, haha

The Queens?  Unless there are piles of extra $$ to burn at will, wouldn't waste one extra dime to keep them looking " eh " because that's about as " good " as they will ever look. Yank 'em,  as soon as is possible..    Far better options that won't require jumping through hoops to keep " kind of " happy.  

 

[PalmatierMeg]

9 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

I know you've seen pictures from there.     Washingtonia heaven -everywhere-  out there, haha

The Queens?  Unless there are piles of extra $$ to burn at will, wouldn't waste one extra dime to keep them looking " eh " because that's about as " good " as they will ever look. Yank 'em,  as soon as is possible..    Far better options that won't require jumping through hoops to keep " kind of " happy.  

 

Native Washies in habitat are awesome. Nursery- raised hybrid Washies lining yards and streets of $10,000,000 houses? A slap in the face to the rich ‘n famous

[Silas_Sancona]

23 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Native Washies in habitat are awesome. Nursery- raised hybrid Washies lining yards and streets of $10,000,000 houses? A slap in the face to the rich ‘n famous

I'd imagine there are material- wealthy folks who love em.. Too common ...and over planted ...Mex. fans at least,  for my happily " poor " blood, lol.   Habitat filifera?  just a 10-30 min drive from just about anywhere in P.S.  to collect seeds.

10 Million dollar homes?  Shouldn't exist, anywhere.

[gratkov]

On 5/18/2024 at 9:33 PM, ahosey01 said:

Okay let's run down the list...

Should I use wood chips, or what type of mulch?

Any ground up organic matter that you can spread over the root zone.  The point is to keep the sun off and the humidity in.  A lot of times, you can call local tree trimming services and ask them for their chips and they'll bring them to you.  I like wood chips generally.

Today I ran the garden hose out and soaked them. That’s what you see in the pic.  They are also on a system with sprinklers and a drip ( but just a dribble from one spot), not spaghetti tubes. 

This has to change.  If you have clay, you should have these on a set of slow drippers (1/2 GPH) and if you have sand, you should have them on a set of fast ones (2 GPH).  I would recommend four drippers per palm.  Generally, in highly alkaline soil (which you almost certainly have) you don't actually want your palm to be sopping wet constantly, because it binds up nutrients and makes uptake difficult.  If it were me, I'd water them every 2 or 3 days for several hours per day on four drippers (i.e. 4 hours per day on 4 2GPH drippers in sand).  This would be 32 gallons per palm every day you watered.  This is in line with @sonoranfans recommendation.

 

To be honest, I think it’s sand. I’m very new to gardening so I’ll have to look into this more. When I step on it, it’s spongy. 

Easy test for you - get a handful of it and spray some water on it.  Make it wet but not liquid.  Try and form it - does it hold shape or does it fall apart?  If it is clay, it will hold shape.  If it falls apart, it is sand.  Somewhere in the middle can be silt, sandy clay, etc..

 

You may also benefit from the addition of sulfur in the root zone.  Arizona's Best makes a good product that does not get locked up in most desert soils.  But without a soil test, this is a game of "most likely this will help  you."  Mulch is key, though.

 

I snipped this from google maps since now I live thousands of miles away.  But this, here, is a queen palm planted in downtown Phoenix in the middle of the concrete jungle.  This is a terrible place for queens, but you can see how good they can look with the right care (and trust me, you're going to have a lot of care to get from where you are to where this is, if it's even possible):

Thank you! I will taking all of this advice 

[gratkov]

On 5/19/2024 at 6:19 AM, Merlyn said:

In addition to the great advice from @ahosey01, I noted that all the queens appear to be suffering from a long-term serious boron deficiency.  This causes fused spears, distorted leaflets, and *might* be the cause of "leaning crown syndrome" like in picture 2 in your original post.  Almost every one of them has the tapered "V" shape to the fronds with necrotic tips.  You can see more of that here:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/EP264

Fertilizer will supply boron, usually around 0.1% or so.  Mulch deteriorates over time and also provides boron.  Personally I'd fix the boron deficiency first, as it's easy and cheap.  Give each of them a dose of boron with something like a tablespoon of borax powder in 5 gallons of water per palm.  Don't repeat for at least a couple of months. 

For fertilizer, the usual recommendation is Palmgain or Florikan 8-2-12.  The rate is 1.5lb of 8-2-12 for every 100sqft of canopy.  For a 20' diameter queen that's about 4.7lb per palm.  To me that seems like an awful lot, especially given how small the current crowns are.  I'd maybe cut that in half.  You can also use cheaper fertilizers, I just put down about 100lb of Sunniland 6-1-8 on my ~300 in-ground palms.

thanks so much. It definitely looks like a Boron deficiency. If the PH is high, should I try to get it down first, or proceed with the Borax powder knowing that the uptake won't be as great? 

[ahosey01]

7 minutes ago, gratkov said:

thanks so much. It definitely looks like a Boron deficiency. If the PH is high, should I try to get it down first, or proceed with the Borax powder knowing that the uptake won't be as great? 

It's going to take a long time to actually bring your PH down, but Arizona's Best makes a sulfur product that will do it quickly, albeit somewhat temporarily.  Long term the mulching will be the thing that brings it down the best.  Might not hurt to put that down along with the boron.

[Merlyn]

1 minute ago, gratkov said:

thanks so much. It definitely looks like a Boron deficiency. If the PH is high, should I try to get it down first, or proceed with the Borax powder knowing that the uptake won't be as great? 

I'd *guess* that the pH is high.  You could probably test the soil if you wanted to.  I'd do the boron treatment anyway.  It doesn't take a lot of uptake to fix a deficiency.  That's why palm fertilizers have a relatively low percentage, around 0.1% or so.

One thing you could consider is adding a thin layer of compost to the beds prior to mulching.  I probably wouldn't use the "Black Cow" stuff, as it is usually very dense and sludgy.  But I just used about 15 bags of generic box store "compost and manure" mix along with mulch in a bed of bamboo.  It's already partially decomposed, so theoretically it ought to decompose and provide organics to the soil faster than waiting a couple of years for mulch to decompose.  I know it works with sand soils, as they use it to "top coat" grass areas to help add organics faster.  I don't have any experience with adding sulfur or other acidifying stuff, as my soil is in the 6-6.5 range already.