are there queen palms in bluffton south carolina or do you guys think they will grow here in bluffton zone 9a?

[vbandz]

i saw a queen palm at the store and bought it! it is in fact in the ground but i don’t know how confident i am of there are freezes/cold snaps in the future about it surviving. What are your thoughts?

[Robbertico18]

I’ve got three in the ground in Savannah 

I think if you’re pretty close to the water in bluffton you’d have a good shot with queens 

[Fusca]

I agree @vbandz.  You might want to check out Jeremy's spreadsheet for cold hardiness.  There should be some entries in areas close to yours.  In my experience in Texas they've survived brief dips to 19°F but can show foliar damage in the mid 20's.  Duration of the freeze makes a difference as well as does multiple freeze events, ice, etc.  Poorly cared for palms will obviously not fare as well as a healthy palm so giving them plenty of water and fertilizer will help.

 

[MarcusH]

On 5/10/2024 at 9:59 AM, Fusca said:

I agree @vbandz.  You might want to check out Jeremy's spreadsheet for cold hardiness.  There should be some entries in areas close to yours.  In my experience in Texas they've survived brief dips to 19°F but can show foliar damage in the mid 20's.  Duration of the freeze makes a difference as well as does multiple freeze events, ice, etc.  Poorly cared for palms will obviously not fare as well as a healthy palm so giving them plenty of water and fertilizer will help.

 

This winter I lost two young Queens when temperatures dropped down to 19F.  Second winter in the row with temperatures in the mid upper teens. 

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

This winter I lost two young Queens when temperatures dropped down to 19F.  Second winter in the row with temperatures in the mid upper teens. 

That's too bad.    Maybe your freeze event lasted longer than the one I experienced.  Or maybe yours weren't as healthy and/or not yet established.  Generally palms don't have their full cold hardiness their first winter in the ground.

Here's documentation of queen palm survivors of January 2018 upper teens + ice in zone 9a Charleston that had grown large enough to flower.

 

[MarcusH]

32 minutes ago, Fusca said:

That's too bad.    Maybe your freeze event lasted longer than the one I experienced.  Or maybe yours weren't as healthy and/or not yet established.  Generally palms don't have their full cold hardiness their first winter in the ground.

Here's documentation of queen palm survivors of January 2018 upper teens + ice in zone 9a Charleston that had grown large enough to flower.

 

Both were very young and have been in the ground between 10 months and 19 months. 

My Robusta took a hit too but survived.  I take good care of my palm trees that I have ( total 6 planted in the ground) . Regular watering and fertilizing plus mulching.  

This time we had some freezing rain and the queens were wrapped in frost cloth only.  Something went wrong.  The queens in the downtown area all survived. 

[PA-TX2024]

30 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Both were very young and have been in the ground between 10 months and 19 months. 

My Robusta took a hit too but survived.  I take good care of my palm trees that I have ( total 6 planted in the ground) . Regular watering and fertilizing plus mulching.  

This time we had some freezing rain and the queens were wrapped in frost cloth only.  Something went wrong.  The queens in the downtown area all survived. 

I have yet to explore San Antonio. Generally for the Queen Palm population, aren't most of them generally in the River Walk area?

[MarcusH]

8 hours ago, PA-TX2024 said:

I have yet to explore San Antonio. Generally for the Queen Palm population, aren't most of them generally in the River Walk area?

There were mature Queen palms around San Antonio,  not just the Riverwalk prior to Feb 2021 . They replanted some along the Riverwalk last year.  

San Antonio had its stretch of nearly 20 years of warm winters but since 2021 our winter temperatures keep going down to the teens.  Not a good environment to grow Queen palms here or in most parts of Texas. 

[PA-TX2024]

2 hours ago, MarcusH said:

There were mature Queen palms around San Antonio,  not just the Riverwalk prior to Feb 2021 . They replanted some along the Riverwalk last year.  

San Antonio had its stretch of nearly 20 years of warm winters but since 2021 our winter temperatures keep going down to the teens.  Not a good environment to grow Queen palms here or in most parts of Texas. 

I would assume only the RGV area like McAllen, Brownsville or South Coastal Texas like Corpus Christi they could thrive. Most Robustas at those locations survived at least.

[MarcusH]

1 minute ago, PA-TX2024 said:

I would assume only the RGV area like McAllen, Brownsville or South Coastal Texas like Corpus Christi they could thrive. 

They will thrive everywhere with our heat that problem is that Texas gets severe cold snaps that keeps killing Queen palms .  Only in the RGV area ,and not all of it , is the only place where Queen palms die by age not by cold.  Even Corpus Christi isn't safe , the same goes for Houston and Galveston.  

[SeanK]

17 minutes ago, PA-TX2024 said:

I would assume only the RGV area like McAllen, Brownsville or South Coastal Texas like Corpus Christi they could thrive. Most Robustas at those locations survived at least.

W.robusta is 5F° more leaf hardy (at least) than a Queen. Bud hardy probably 10° more cold resistant. Last time I was in Augusta, GA 10 years ago there were still Washies on Washington Rd.

[PA-TX2024]

2 hours ago, SeanK said:

W.robusta is 5F° more leaf hardy (at least) than a Queen. Bud hardy probably 10° more cold resistant. Last time I was in Augusta, GA 10 years ago there were still Washies on Washington Rd.

Thankfully here in the San Antonio area, especially New Braunfels, most of the newer planted Robustas (after 2021) I've seen are still standing. Queens are non-existant here thanks to the recent winters.

[vbandz]

18 hours ago, MarcusH said:

This winter I lost two young Queens when temperatures dropped down to 19F.  Second winter in the row with temperatures in the mid upper teens. 

Well for some reason savannah is 8b and bluffton is 9a and hilton head is 9b america has extremely weird plant zones 😂

[JLM]

19 minutes ago, vbandz said:

Well for some reason savannah is 8b and bluffton is 9a and hilton head is 9b america has extremely weird plant zones 😂

All depends on the minimum temperature each year.
 

The plant zones are made up from a 30 year average of minimums during that time period. The new zone map has Savannah well into z9a, which is 20F-25F.
 

My county over here in NW FL is 8b in the northern part of the county, 9a for the rest except for 9b microclimates along the coast. 🤷‍♂️

[vbandz]

40 minutes ago, JLM said:

All depends on the minimum temperature each year.
 

The plant zones are made up from a 30 year average of minimums during that time period. The new zone map has Savannah well into z9a, which is 20F-25F.
 

My county over here in NW FL is 8b in the northern part of the county, 9a for the rest except for 9b microclimates along the coast. 🤷‍♂️

i think i understand more now it’s the same over here in southeast south carolina

[MarcusH]

3 hours ago, vbandz said:

Well for some reason savannah is 8b and bluffton is 9a and hilton head is 9b america has extremely weird plant zones 😂

The hardiness zone maps are pretty much useless for plant survival.  Everyone should know that plants don't care about average temperatures.  Just look up the ultimate lows within the last 1 to 50 years then do the math.  You can take the chance to zone push but don't be disappointed or surprised that it gets cold again after 15 years or so. History always repeats.  

Texas has one of the weirdest zone rating out of all states. 

Houston and San Antonio both are now rated as 9b and 9a zones but both get 1 zone up to 1 1/2 zones colder once in a blue moon.  People push their yard reset button every now and then.  People in Texas plant the craziest things that constantly gets wiped out by an artic freeze since  2010 . Right now we're doomed with cold winters again unfortunately.  Our winters are very unpredictable.  

[vbandz]

17 hours ago, MarcusH said:

The hardiness zone maps are pretty much useless for plant survival.  Everyone should know that plants don't care about average temperatures.  Just look up the ultimate lows within the last 1 to 50 years then do the math.  You can take the chance to zone push but don't be disappointed or surprised that it gets cold again after 15 years or so. History always repeats.  

Texas has one of the weirdest zone rating out of all states. 

Houston and San Antonio both are now rated as 9b and 9a zones but both get 1 zone up to 1 1/2 zones colder once in a blue moon.  People push their yard reset button every now and then.  People in Texas plant the craziest things that constantly gets wiped out by an artic freeze since  2010 . Right now we're doomed with cold winters again unfortunately.  Our winters are very unpredictable.  

in 15 years i think the queen palm will be mature enough to handle 15 degrees 

[SeanK]

Perhaps:

https://www.hardy-palms.co.uk/product/syagrus-romanzoffiana-santa-catarina/

 

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, vbandz said:

in 15 years i think the queen palm will be mature enough to handle 15 degrees 

No !!! The vast majority of Queen palms would be wiped out that's just a fact.  Below 20F chances of survival are low.  If the stars are lined up right someone might be lucky enough to keep his Queen alive when it gets down to 15f. It happened . I know someone said some even survived 13f but we need to know the circumstances of how it survived.  Queens are hardy to about 20f depending on a few factors.  

[vbandz]

21 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

No !!! The vast majority of Queen palms would be wiped out that's just a fact.  Below 20F chances of survival are low.  If the stars are lined up right someone might be lucky enough to keep his Queen alive when it gets down to 15f. It happened . I know someone said some even survived 13f but we need to know the circumstances of how it survived.  Queens are hardy to about 20f depending on a few factors.  

my baby one was okay in 17 degrees maybe mine is a hybrid because you’re absolutely right 

[MarcusH]

46 minutes ago, vbandz said:

my baby one was okay in 17 degrees maybe mine is a hybrid because you’re absolutely right 

 

46 minutes ago, vbandz said:

my baby one was okay in 17 degrees maybe mine is a hybrid because you’re absolutely right 

The vast majority of humans don't make it to the 90s and beyond but there are exceptions.  The same with any palm tree . 

[SeanK]

1 hour ago, vbandz said:

my baby one was okay in 17 degrees maybe mine is a hybrid because you’re absolutely right 

Have a photo?

[vbandz]

10 hours ago, MarcusH said:

 

The vast majority of humans don't make it to the 90s and beyond but there are exceptions.  The same with any palm tree . 

lol. yes i will give everyone updates in this topic because i’m feeling 50/50 on this one i might just be better off with a date palm

[MarcusH]

9 hours ago, vbandz said:

lol. yes i will give everyone updates in this topic because i’m feeling 50/50 on this one i might just be better off with a date palm

I don't know. Look up your ultimate lows at least the last 30 years to determine what will grow long term.  If you don't mind pushing the reset button then it doesn't matter. 

[vbandz]

8 hours ago, MarcusH said:

I don't know. Look up your ultimate lows at least the last 30 years to determine what will grow long term.  If you don't mind pushing the reset button then it doesn't matter. 

it will most likely survive but if it dies it’s replaceable 

[JLM]

34 minutes ago, vbandz said:

it will most likely survive but if it dies it’s replaceable 

In your area you can get away with queens for a while I would imagine, some winters might require some protection.
 

If you are going to make the queen a big part of your landscape though, I would recommend planting hardier lookalikes nearby. Mules would be a good choice. If you wanna go for date palms, CIDP would be a better option for you. 

[D Palm]

Don’t think of just “ultimate low.” Does it hit 19 then shoot up into the 60/70’s? Or hover in the 40’s for daytime high then a low 20’s. I have seen it 23 low at dawn then mid 80’s that afternoon in N. Florida
 

The major difference I have noticed with inland N. Florida and coastal SC is we may bounce back up to 70’s while SC may hit 50/60’s. Inland South East overall has lower lows, but also usually has higher highs. 
 

Being near large masses of water help stabilize the temperature, as water heats and cools slower than ground temps.

[HiltonHead2004]

I live near Bluffton and I have a few Queen Palms but they're planted in pots and I usually store them inside during the colder months. I did experiment with one Queen Palm a year ago and planted it in the ground but it didn't last long unfortunately.  Queens are fairly inexpensive so if you wanted to give it a try, I would go for it but do know the risk.