Standard Chamaerops Humilis?

[amh]

I recently bought what I assumed was a standard green Chamaerops humilis var. humilis from a bigbox store, but now I am not so sure.

The plant seems to have a blue tint, but it doesn't look like the Chamaerops humilis var. argentea or cerifera pictures that I have seen.

Was my original assumption correct or is this some other subspecies?

The blue doesn't seem to show up in the evening sun, so I'll try to take better pictures tomorrow.

 

[Chester B]

I know what you are saying, it looks almost like an intermediate of the two.  You will see this type mixed in with the standard green varieties.  I had one like this and it had duplicifolia, but as far as I know its just a slightly different form of the green.  I saw a couple like this at Lowes here.  Definitely not cerifiera, I had all three at my last place.

 

[amh]

  On 5/9/2024 at 1:03 AM, Chester B said:

I know what you are saying, it looks almost like an intermediate of the two.  You will see this type mixed in with the standard green varieties.  I had one like this and it had duplicifolia, but as far as I know its just a slightly different form of the green.  I saw a couple like this at Lowes here.  Definitely not cerifiera, I had all three at my last place.

 

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I was sure it wasn't cerifiera and I know the species has tomentum, but there seems to be some glaucous quality to the leaves.

There is a standard green variety in my neighborhood that survived palmageddon , so I decided to buy one.

I have seen Chamaerops humilis var. epondraes listed as a glaucous subspecies, but I cannot find pictures.

[Fusca]

I agree with @Chester BB, plenty of variation within the green form (Chamaerops humilis var. humilis).  Looks like yours has lots of white tomentum like mine does.  I really like the compactness of the fronds on mine along with minimal petiole thorns.

[SeanK]

Another factor is RH. Cerifera looks different in the desert than it does in Florida. 

[amh]

I took a few pictures in the shade. The blue tint doesn't seem to show up in the pictures, but the tint is a blue/green, not a blue/silver.

[SM458]

Look like mine. Mine has green leaves at older base while new fronds have green blue tint.  It also was sold just as “European fan palm” Lowe’s. 

[amh]

  On 5/11/2024 at 2:07 AM, SM458 said:

Look like mine. Mine has green leaves at older base while new fronds have green blue tint.  It also was sold just as “European fan palm” Lowe’s. 

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I was buying chicken feed at TSC when I saw the palm. It was labeled "European Fan Palm" as well.

I really like the look of this one, so if I see another, I think I'll buy it.

[Arecaceus]

I agree with the others. The green form comes in all kinds of variations. I have several "normal" C. humilis and they all look and grow different. My biggest in the front garden also has rather bright green leaves and lots of white on the underside. Cerifera usuallly grow slower/smaller and have stiffer leaves. They look a bit like T. campestris when small.

[Darold Petty]

This palm is more variable than any other I know.  If I had a large garden in a climate with hot, sunny conditions I would have an entire section devoted to the different frond forms !

[SM458]

Hard to tell with my pictures, but the upper new fronds have green blue color sheen. While the suckers have a greener tone. 

[amh]

I wasn't aware of the variation in the standard Chamaerops humiis. I think I will now try to find more forms to plant.

Has anyone tried planting chamaerops near nannorrhops; do the two species contrast each other or do they just look blah together?

I have some very silver nannorrhops seedlings that I think may work.

[Fusca]

  On 5/13/2024 at 9:28 PM, amh said:

I wasn't aware of the variation in the standard Chamaerops humiis. I think I will now try to find more forms to plant.

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Here's a weepy form planted where I used to work in Brenham.

 

A solitary compact form from where I used to work in San Antonio.

Then there's the odd leafed "mutant" form from Dick Douglas' garden and my favorite form "vulcano".

I often look through the dozens of Chamaerops for sale at Houston Garden Center and often find different types in the same batch.

[Chester B]

That weepy one has always been my favorite.  Don't think I've seen pictures of another one though.

@Fusca I always look through the Chamaerops and Trachys at places for something different.  I've been lucky to get about 3 interesting palms this way.

[Fusca]

  On 5/16/2024 at 2:12 PM, Chester B said:

That weepy one has always been my favorite.  Don't think I've seen pictures of another one though.

@Fusca I always look through the Chamaerops and Trachys at places for something different.  I've been lucky to get about 3 interesting palms this way.

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I used to do the same with Butias looking for one with a lot of blue color but now they aren't available in large quantities anymore. 

I found this weepy Chamaerops in Harlingen - it's not as weepy as the one in Brenham but similar.  I haven't seen very many like this either. 

[Chester B]

Are both of these in dense shade?  I have seen Chamaerops grown in shade and they do take a different appearance, but I've not seen any this large that were shade grown.

[Fusca]

  On 5/16/2024 at 6:33 PM, Chester B said:

Are both of these in dense shade?  I have seen Chamaerops grown in shade and they do take a different appearance, but I've not seen any this large that were shade grown.

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Both are in some shade - the one in Brenham more so than the one in Harlingen which is in maybe half day shade.  That does seem to be a common denominator but the weepiness wouldn't happen unless the fronds/leaflets were soft to begin with.  The compact one I posted in San Antonio is in at least half day shade also but no signs of weepiness.  🤷‍♂️  Unless the fronds get softer over time but I doubt that.

[Chester B]

Some shade grown ones back in Portland for comparison.

 

 

[amh]

An update.

I still have the palm in a container, but the appearance has reverted back to the more traditional green Chamaerops humilis, which is not a problem for me.

[ZPalms]

Weeping form is very nice

[Harry’s Palms]

I have one that is just the standard green with silvery undersides. It has been in the ground over 25 years , planted as a seedling . It never produced any suckers just a single strait trunk that is about 7’ tall. Planted on a south facing hill in full sun all day. Harry

[Swolte]

  On 5/16/2024 at 2:12 PM, Chester B said:

That weepy one has always been my favorite.  Don't think I've seen pictures of another one though.

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My friend has one, private collection! 5 mins from where I live.

[Chester B]

  On 9/7/2024 at 1:23 PM, Swolte said:

My friend has one, private collection! 5 mins from where I live.

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I wouldn't have been able to ID it from this picture, I probably would've guessed it to be a Livistona.  That this is awesome, too bad they're not self fertile.

[Fusca]

  On 9/7/2024 at 1:23 PM, Swolte said:

My friend has one, private collection! 5 mins from where I live.

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That's a nice weepy type!  I'm guessing it gets mostly shade in that spot?

 

  On 9/7/2024 at 9:06 PM, Chester B said:

That this is awesome, too bad they're not self fertile.

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Sometimes they do produce male and female flowers. 

[ZPalms]

do suckers possess the same weepy form im assuming?

[SeanK]

Information Centre, St Augustine, FL 

[Dwarf Fan]

  On 5/13/2024 at 10:58 PM, Fusca said:

Here's a weepy form planted where I used to work in Brenham.

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^^^ That is the nicest example of a “weeping” Med Fan I have ever seen thank you for posting Jon! 

I have heard a few people mention the “weeping” var. on here but it is nice to see people posting some pics! 

I have spotted two so far in Corpus both are commercial plantings, one is on the Island, the other is in Downtown.

They seem to be kina rare, but they are definitely out there. I do like the look of them but I have never seen one for sale.

Here is the one on N. Padre Island note how thin/fine the leaflets are:

[Fusca]

  On 9/18/2024 at 3:07 AM, Dwarf Fan said:

^^^ That is the nicest example of a “weeping” Med Fan I have ever seen thank you for posting Jon! 

I have heard a few people mention the “weeping” var. on here but it is nice to see people posting some pics! 

I have spotted two so far in Corpus both are commercial plantings, one is on the Island, the other is in Downtown.

They seem to be kina rare, but they are definitely out there. I do like the look of them but I have never seen one for sale.

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It seems like they droop/weep more in shade but there's definitely variation in frond stiffness.  The one here in Harlingen that I have posted before isn't quite as weepy and it's in more sun.  You won't see them sold specifically but if you sort through hundreds of them at Houston Garden Center you're more likely to find one.