South Florida hobby nursery

[Mr. Clark]

Hi all, just purchased 15 acres in South Florida, zone 11a - the property has a crop of field grown Sylvester Palms ready for market.  Previous owners have been selling them (uncertified) for a while, but there are about 150 nice ones left that are 4-8' clear trunk.   We do have irrigation throughout, so these are nice trees and within a week of moving in a few folks started poking around about buying the rest of the crop.   I try to do things by the book, so got our state inspection/certification and am ready to sell.  I have a guy who will buy the lot for $50 per foot of clear trunk, which seems low avg for wholesale but he will do all the work.  This will provide a nice one time bit of cash to cover some decent equipment and new stock...  My question is what to replant with?

I found Sylvester stock at a reasonable price, but with the spread of lethal bronzing, slow growth rate, and overall the level of care needed for these trees I am not sure they are worth the hassle at the current price point.   Also if I plant now, it will be 5-7 years to get them to market...  Trying to think of other good options - willing to consider any profitable crop, but field grown palms are appealing since this is a side gig.  Not really looking for profits, but some extra income to help with land taxes and maybe cover equipment, ect would be nice.   Whatever I plant, Low labor is key and relatively high resistances.   Any input on what might make for a good tree crop?

[bruce Steele]

Congratulations on selling your Sylvesters and on getting a farm to plan around. 
I have a farm in S. Cal. and growing some crops allows tax advantages re. deductions for farm expenses. You do need to show some profit in two out of seven years but if you plan on selling future palms it would be nice if some money came in sometime before you need to show some profit. 
I am trying to plant a bunch of Jubaea in the hope that ten or twenty years from now I ( or somebody else ) can did them up and box them for sale. Long time horizon project . 
Have you considered a planting of mule palms?  Fast, beautiful and probably happy where you live . I am not from Florida so get local advice on how mules might do. 
Palms grown in grow bags might be something you could get to market faster than  trees that needed digging. 

[SeanK]

I agree with @bruce Steele on the mule palms. Consider growing some cold-hardy stock that can be trucked to mom-and-pop retailers in z8 north of you.

Maybe get some field palmettos and drop them into 50- or 100-gal pots to regrow roots prior to selling farther north. Toe-in the pots so you're not always watering by hand.

For the local market, consider what isn't typical. Pseudophoenix and Cytostachis grown under some shade cloth for z10 customers.

[awkonradi]

Welcome to PalmTalk.  Would you like to share pictures of the nursery?  I think that would be cool to see.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Mules and Beccariophoenix alfredii (High Plateau Coconut) are the two “hot” palm species now since they take some cold and have a Coconut personality. 

[Zeeth]

I agree with Jim's recommendation of Mules and Beccariophoenix alfredii. FDOT has been buying up Mules for their highway planting and B. alfredii is starting to be more commonly planted commercially. However, both are relatively slow growing and not really utilizing the full extent of your climate zone. You might also consider adding in some more tropical stuff like Satakentia liukuensis, Carpoxylon macrospermum or Chambeyronia (Kentiopsis) oliviformis. These are faster growing and may turn a profit sooner. 

You might also consider some of the South Florida natives that are becoming more common for coastal plantings in Central Florida like Pseudophoenix sargentii and Thrinax radiata. Mass plantings of Royals are pretty ubiquitous and you might run into issues with how much water a large planting of royals will need. They should meet your criteria of high disease resistance though.

[Merlyn]

I'd agree with the other comments on Sylvesters.  They are getting wiped out here in Orlando now, and I'm about to remove an infected one in my front yard.  Personally I'd avoid anything Phoenix, as it's not clear what other species are at severe risk.  As far as other palms go, you could look at it as two categories:

• Easy sale "common" palms like Queens, Livistona Chinensis / Nitida / Decipiens / Saribus, Mules, Rhapis Excelsa "Lady Palms," Foxtails, some Dypsis/Chrysalidocarpus Lutescens, Bismarck, Fishtails, Pindos, Kings, Ptychosperma Elegans, etc.  Those could be easily sold any time, but you wouldn't make much on them...they are more "commodity" palms that are grown by a LOT of nurseries.  But it could make sense if you need a minimum acreage or sales volume to qualify for tax breaks.
• "Unusual" palms that may command higher individual prices, but are either slower growing or less in demand.  Those are the sort of "collector" palms that we like here.    In Zone 11 you could grow almost anything, and much faster than in zone 9 or 8.  So you could grow Arenga Engleri, which commands biiig prices in Jacksonville.  Or unusual tall palms like Arenga Pinnata or Attalea Cohune.  Beccariophoenix Alfredii is another good one that should grow pretty quick in SFL.  Any of the Copernicia would be good, as well as other interesting palms like Kerriodoxa Elegans, lots of options in the Licuala group, some of the "other" Syagrus like Schizophylla and "Coco Queen" Schizophylla x Romanzoffiana, etc.  Many of these are "easy grows" if they don't see freezing temps, and could be shipped to Zone 10-9b areas easily.

Overall maybe a mix of common and unusual is a good choice.  But avoid Sylvestris.

[Mr. Clark]

thanks for the input!  going to look into these suggestions this weekend.  I will try to post a few pictures tomorrow.

[kinzyjr]

@Mr. Clark Welcome to PalmTalk!

Because of where you are located, you can grow practically anything.  That said, if you want to get the nursery "into the black" as quickly as possible, you'll want to get yourself a guaranteed revenue stream with stuff that can grow fast and wholesale just as fast to commercial and government customers.  Residents also buy most of the palms below and many of them are outside of the typical "Phoenix/Syagrus/Washingtonia/Sabal/Butia" that wholesalers have relied on in the past.

Roystonea regia (Royal Palm) and Cocos nucifera (Coconut Palm) are an easy sell to consumers.  Down your way they are common, but Royals are increasingly being used here to replace the more disease-prone Syagrus romanzoffiana (Queen Palm) and Phoenix species.  The aforementioned Beccariophoenix alfredii is increasing in popularity rapidly from Jacksonville down along I-95 and the entire I-4 corridor.  Mules are the even-hardier pinnate palm for cooler areas.  Our municipality plants both everywhere.

A good family of palms to sell includes Veitchia arecina (Montgomery Palm), Adonidia merrillii (Christmas Palm), Wodyetia bifurcata (Foxtail Palm), and Carpentaria acuminata.  Where you are located and in most of South Florida, any of these can grow anywhere.  In Central Florida, Christmas Palms and Foxtails sell quickly for residential landscaping and hotels.  Veitchia are more of a novelty here, whereas down your way, they line streets and are planted near buildings.  Carpentaria is more of a dark horse of the family, but is a good palm for areas that require a Veitchia look with a smaller crown.  If you hybridize Veitchia and Wodyetia, you'll get the highly-coveted "Foxy Lady" palm.

Another good family of palms to include is Bismarckia nobilis (especially the silver variety) and at least Latania loddigesii (the Blue Latan Palm).  Bismarckia is popular throughout almost the whole state and grows pretty fast once the root system is in place, and I've increasingly seen Blue Latans used in milder areas near me, like Winter Haven and Palmetto.

Another easy seller is the Archontophoenix genus, especially Archontophoenix cunninghamiana and Archontophoenix alexandrae.  Collectively, King Palms are very desirable and the supply is way lower than the demand.  Archontophoenix cunninghamiana becomes viable somewhere around coastal JAX or St. Augustine.  Archontophoenix alexandrae tends to do better a bit further south, but you'll still have a market for them in roughly 2/3 of the state.

The Chambeyronia genus, which has now swallowed the Kentiopsis genus, has a lot of popular, chill-tolerant crownshaft palms you can sell to 2/3 of the state.  The big sellers would be Chambeyronia macrocarpa (all varieties), Chambeyronia oliviformis, and Chambeyronia pyriformis.

The Chrysalidocarpus (a.k.a. Dypsis that grow in Florida) genus tends to sell decent.  Probably the most sold is Chrysalidocarpus lutescens, but Chrysalidocarpus decaryi probably isn't too far behind.  Chrysalidocarpus leptocheilos, Chrysalidocarpus pembana, and Chrysalidocarpus lanceolata would sell better if they were more commonly available.  These grow a bit more slowly than most of the other palms above.

With the arrival of Lethal Bronzing in Florida, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the Livistona genus.  In particular, Livistona decora is a prize for municipal planting here.  Livistona nitida, Livistona mariae, Livistona australis, and Livistona chinensis are also planted frequently.  These also tend to reach mature size at a later time than some of the tropical and subtropical options above.

This list is a bit myopic since these are primarily what is bought along the I-4 corridor and areas either further south or with similar microclimates along I-95, but it gives you a way to operate at a profit in a shorter amount of time and still provide a unique inventory to most of the peninsula.

[SeanK]

  On 4/19/2024 at 12:04 AM, Merlyn said:

I'd agree with the other comments on Sylvesters.  They are getting wiped out here in Orlando now, and I'm about to remove an infected one in my front yard.  Personally I'd avoid anything Phoenix, as it's not clear what other species are at severe risk.  As far as other palms go, you could look at it as two categories:

• Easy sale "common" palms like Queens, Livistona Chinensis / Nitida / Decipiens / Saribus, Mules, Rhapis Excelsa "Lady Palms," Foxtails, some Dypsis/Chrysalidocarpus Lutescens, Bismarck, Fishtails, Pindos, Kings, Ptychosperma Elegans, etc.  Those could be easily sold any time, but you wouldn't make much on them...they are more "commodity" palms that are grown by a LOT of nurseries.  But it could make sense if you need a minimum acreage or sales volume to qualify for tax breaks.
• "Unusual" palms that may command higher individual prices, but are either slower growing or less in demand.  Those are the sort of "collector" palms that we like here.    In Zone 11 you could grow almost anything, and much faster than in zone 9 or 8.  So you could grow Arenga Engleri, which commands biiig prices in Jacksonville.  Or unusual tall palms like Arenga Pinnata or Attalea Cohune.  Beccariophoenix Alfredii is another good one that should grow pretty quick in SFL.  Any of the Copernicia would be good, as well as other interesting palms like Kerriodoxa Elegans, lots of options in the Licuala group, some of the "other" Syagrus like Schizophylla and "Coco Queen" Schizophylla x Romanzoffiana, etc.  Many of these are "easy grows" if they don't see freezing temps, and could be shipped to Zone 10-9b areas easily.

Overall maybe a mix of common and unusual is a good choice.  But avoid Sylvestris.

Expand  

Are mules now planted in place of sylvesters along I4?

[Harry’s Palms]

Congratulations and all the best moving forward. Another vote for some pics please!

[Merlyn]

  On 4/19/2024 at 1:04 AM, SeanK said:

Are mules now planted in place of sylvesters along I4?

Expand  

In my area they are using Mules, Sabals, Bismarck, Chamaerops (odd I know), still some new Sylvestris (stupid), Livistona Decipiens and Nitida, and occasionally they are really dumb and plant some 20ft tall Trachycarpus...which immediately die from nematodes.

[redant]

  On 4/18/2024 at 4:04 PM, SeanK said:

I agree with @bruce Steele on the mule palms. Consider growing some cold-hardy stock that can be trucked to mom-and-pop retailers in z8 north of you.

Maybe get some field palmettos and drop them into 50- or 100-gal pots to regrow roots prior to selling farther north. Toe-in the pots so you're not always watering by hand.

For the local market, consider what isn't typical. Pseudophoenix and Cytostachis grown under some shade cloth for z10 customers.

Expand  

Can get land far cheaper in the north for stuff like that, then also avoid the transportation

[redant]

  On 4/18/2024 at 8:35 PM, Zeeth said:

I agree with Jim's recommendation of Mules and Beccariophoenix alfredii. FDOT has been buying up Mules for their highway planting and B. alfredii is starting to be more commonly planted commercially. However, both are relatively slow growing and not really utilizing the full extent of your climate zone. You might also consider adding in some more tropical stuff like Satakentia liukuensis, Carpoxylon macrospermum or Chambeyronia (Kentiopsis) oliviformis. These are faster growing and may turn a profit sooner. 

You might also consider some of the South Florida natives that are becoming more common for coastal plantings in Central Florida like Pseudophoenix sargentii and Thrinax radiata. Mass plantings of Royals are pretty ubiquitous and you might run into issues with how much water a large planting of royals will need. They should meet your criteria of high disease resistance though.

Expand  

all good ideas imo

[redant]

My daughter and her husband have been doing landscape design and installation for a long time. She knows a lot about palms, she's my daughter lol. Most of her clients in very expensive areas are new here from up north. They know nothing about palms and generally go for the cheap common stuff. The rare exotic stuff just is a small market for palm nuts in general.  I had talked Jeff S (forgot the last name) had his rain forest collection said he had to do other stuff like hedging and broms to turn a profit,  exotic palms take to long and to few buyers,  I had sold stuff online, rare stuff and people don't want to pay up for a slow growing palm that u put 5 years into,

[Looking Glass]

If you are growing for profit, the common, easy care, fast growing stuff sells by volume.   Most people just want the same easy stuff that grows with little effort.   But if you are doing it as a fun hobby, the sky’s the limit.  

If I had a “for fun”,  in zone 11 Florida, small nursery…..  I’d grow stuff that I was interested in, was less common, and that I think would be good to see more of in my area.  For me that would be Copernicia, Coccothrinax, Pseudophoenix, Serenoa, Thrinax, Leucothrinax, Lantania, Chambeyronia, Satakentia, Dictyosperma, Beccariophoenix, Allagopterra, a few Dypsis/Chrysadidocarpus, Coonties and a couple other Cycads, and my favorite less common crotons and bromeliads.  These would be things that grow well in the area without ICU-level care, but are still interesting enough and eye catching.  

[Mr. Clark]

Well, here are a few photos - thought I had a better arial that showed the palm crop but cant seem to find it.  The main crop is infront of the empty row in the drone shot I did find.   Thanks again for all the great ideas - got some homework to do now!

Edited April 19, 2024 by Mr. Clark
Fix photos...

[redant]

nice spread

[Mr. Clark]

Ok, narrowing my list!  Took everyone suggestions and started seeing what was around, what I could get for stock, selling price, etc.  Pruned the list an now going to deep dive in to researching these below.  I think I will narrow this list down to 3-5 as my next crop of 100-150 tree per type and then do some small batches too. 

This site is amazing, a few days ago I knew nothing about palms, and now I know next to nothing!  Progress!  😁

Name	Common Name
Arenga engleri	Dwarf Sugar Palm
Beccariophoenix alfredii	High Plateua Coconut
Bismarckia nobilis	Bismarck Palm
Butia capitata	Jelly Palm
Butiagrus nabonnandii X	Mule Palm
Chambeyronia macrocarpa	Flamethrower palm
Cocos nucifera	Coconut Palm
coelorrhaphe wrightii	Everglades Palm
Copernicia alba	Caranday Palm
Livistona chinensis	Chinese Fan Palm
Livistona decipiens/decora	Ribbon Palm
Livistona nitida	Carnarvon Fan Palm
Pseudophoenix Sargentii	Florida cherry palm
Serenoa repens	Saw Palmetto
Thrinax radiata	Florida Thatch Palm

 

Also, here are some picks of non-crop palms we have around the house.

[TampaBayRay]

  On 4/19/2024 at 1:04 AM, SeanK said:

Are mules now planted in place of sylvesters along I4?

Expand  

Ive seen em on 75 around fowler and 275 around airport 

[bubba]

Where is your property located? East or west of I-95? How close to US 1? It looks west and that means you cannot be in Zone 11 and you definitely are in an area where you can expect some chilly weather that will rule out Uber-tropicals. You should opt for the fastest growing palm with the greatest market demand, probably for areas to your north.

For Florida, a palm that is underutilized is the Chambeyronia macrocarpa. ( Kinsey). Unfortunately, they are slow growers but so are Beccariophoenix alfredi and mules. I would check the market with some other “growers” in your area. Your choice of palm is important.

I would keep Mr. Steele’s practical tax advice in mind for your business purpose. Also, you want an easy grow that will not turn you into an unwilling intense servant to your palm crop!

 

 

[PhoenixFXG]

  On 4/21/2024 at 12:30 PM, bubba said:

Where is your property located? East or west of I-95? How close to US 1? It looks west and that means you cannot be in Zone 11 and you definitely are in an area where you can expect some chilly weather that will rule out Uber-tropicals. You should opt for the fastest growing palm with the greatest market demand, probably for areas to your north.

For Florida, a palm that is underutilized is the Chambeyronia macrocarpa. ( Kinsey). Unfortunately, they are slow growers but so are Beccariophoenix alfredi and mules. I would check the market with some other “growers” in your area. Your choice of palm is important.

I would keep Mr. Steele’s practical tax advice in mind for your business purpose. Also, you want an easy grow that will not turn you into an unwilling intense servant to your palm crop!

 

 

Expand  

I don’t think Mules are slow for growers. Some of the members here have reported around 4 ft a year in Florida.

[Mr. Clark]

I am East of 95, Bubba - about 4 miles to the lagoon, but I think 11 was a typo - we are 10a here.  If you were buying this property to try to make a nursery work, the math would not be in your favor.  We just loved the place and location, so the palm field was a side benefit.

I am going through the local market now and that is helpful.  I used that to start narrowing the suggestions list.  More digging to do.

In terms of taxes, we don’t need the plants for exemption and we have other business lines which generate profit, so not worried there.  Slow growth is fine, if there is low labor -  not really looking to make a quick buck but not looking to loose money on the effort of replanting, irrigation, fertilizer, etc. in the long run either.  

[bubba]

Understood! Good luck and good times! VB is a great spot.

[redant]

Arenga engleri	Dwarf Sugar Palm  Not  X
Beccariophoenix alfredii	High Plateua Coconut    Y
Bismarckia nobilis	Bismarck Palm                Y
Butia capitata	Jelly Palm                        X
Butiagrus nabonnandii X	Mule Palm                      Y
Chambeyronia macrocarpa	Flamethrower palm        Y
Cocos nucifera	Coconut Palm                 Y
coelorrhaphe wrightii	Everglades Palm             X
Copernicia alba	Caranday Palm                Y
Livistona chinensis	Chinese Fan Palm          X
Livistona decipiens/decora	Ribbon Palm                Y
Livistona nitida	Carnarvon Fan Palm     Y
Pseudophoenix Sargentii	Florida cherry palm      Y
Serenoa repens	Saw Palmetto              X
Thrinax radiata X -= no Y - yes, my opinion	Florida Thatch Pal       Y