Do you think this palm is healthy ?

[dada]

Hi all

I have opportunity to purchase this palm for great price.

We love palms but we are not experts.

I posted few pics here.

Our concern is if this palm is healthy.

It is big (and old)

On the bottom is very dark (black). Is that cause of concern?

 

Thank you

[Jim in Los Altos]

Under watered and WAY over-pruned but it can certainly be revived.  

[happypalms]

That’s more than a palm it’s an alien from from mars omg 

[Johnny Palmseed]

How do you plan on transplanting it? It will be very heavy and awkward to move. And there is always risk of transplant failure so that great price might not end up so great. Be aware before you commit that it will not be an easy job.

[aztropic]

Don't think it would transplant well at all in it's current condition. Somebody needs to give it a LOT more water,and get the palm healthy and growing again, before a transplant could be considered.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[FlaPalmLover]

They butchered the crap out of that thing. It appears to be a mature, quadruple European fan palm. They look WAY better than that when they haven't been butchered. Those are typically quite expensive to buy at a mature size. But it should probably be discounted for having been treated so horribly.

[dada]

Thank you for your answers, so do you have any advice what to da after i get it?

More water?

Other company is doing trasplant, im paying $700 for everything included.

Do you think thats good price?

I understand it is not in good/perfect condition but i hope i can get it revived

[dada]

13 hours ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

How do you plan on transplanting it? It will be very heavy and awkward to move. And there is always risk of transplant failure so that great price might not end up so great. Be aware before you commit that it will not be an easy job.

You mean it can die after transplant or just not be able to do it?

The company is doing it for me, im not paying them until transplant is done

[dada]

8 hours ago, aztropic said:

Don't think it would transplant well at all in it's current condition. Somebody needs to give it a LOT more water,and get the palm healthy and growing again, before a transplant could be considered.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

Can you be more specific?

They are going to transplant it soon.

After that im going to take care about it.

I am paying $700 incl installation. I thought it was good price.

Is there anything else other then watering to do after installation?

 

Thanx

 

[SeanK]

No doubt needs a pro with a crane. I would pay $700. Yup; over trimmed and underwatered. Very common in Las Vegas. Pep the hole good, don't over fertilize it at first, and lots of water.

[FlaPalmLover]

24 minutes ago, SeanK said:

No doubt needs a pro with a crane. I would pay $700. Yup; over trimmed and underwatered. Very common in Las Vegas. Pep the hole good, don't over fertilize it at first, and lots of water.

Agreed. $700 seems like a very fair price. OP you should update us on how this is looking in a few months or a year.

[aztropic]

A tree like that needs to be root pruned over time,or else scooped out with heavy machinery that a tree relocating service would use. Surprisingly, large multi trunked med fans do not always transplant well after being dug from the ground. I would hope for some kind of written guarantee from the transplanter,that if it dies,(dries up)  within 6 months, you would be refunded half the cost of the tree as a minimum. 🤷‍♂️ 

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona

[Johnny Palmseed]

11 hours ago, dada said:

You mean it can die after transplant or just not be able to do it?

The company is doing it for me, im not paying them until transplant is done

First of all, it’s good that you joined here to ask before committing. There are many helpful people on here as you probably already noticed. Yes it can die after transplant. It happens regularly, even when prepared correctly.  The process is very stressful on the plant and as stated above, some palms just do not transplant well. It looks like you are buying this from someone’s yard and having an outside company do the moving. If they are going to guarantee it, then it might be worth considering. However, just because you are paying them after the job is done does not actually mean anything in terms of survival. Most likely, the palm will look fine for days after the move and then will show signs of stress or die outright.

Generally, the process of moving an established palm is best done over time. The roots are pruned around the palm in order to get the palm ready for moving. This can be done simply with a shovel or with machinery. A corresponding amount of top growth (fronds) would also be trimmed, however that has already been done in this case. During this time, the watering should be increased as the roots are being removed from the plant. When ready to move, the new location will already be prepared and the move should be done in the same day.

It sounds like you are considering this purchase based on the “good deal effect”. This palm for $700 planted in your yard is probably a good deal. But imagine paying $700 and in the end you have a dead palm tree that now needs to be removed. If you were getting the palm for free and you had a crew that could help you move it, I would say go for it. As an impartial observer with the info provided, I would not recommend it. You would be better off buying a smaller palm in a container that you could grow yourself.

[PalmatierMeg]

15 hours ago, aztropic said:

A tree like that needs to be root pruned over time,or else scooped out with heavy machinery that a tree relocating service would use. Surprisingly, large multi trunked med fans do not always transplant well after being dug from the ground. I would hope for some kind of written guarantee from the transplanter,that if it dies,(dries up)  within 6 months, you would be refunded half the cost of the tree as a minimum. 🤷‍♂️ 

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona

Agree with @aztropic. You need to trench a square around it over the course of several months before transplant as follows:

1. Cut first side of square about 3' from the trunk(s) and 3' deep. Wait several weeks. Give the palm plenty of water.

2. Repeat step 1

3. Ditto

4. Ditto

You do each side separately so that the roots you sever have a chance to start healing before you cut the next trench. Hacking the palm out of the ground all at once does major damage to the roots and invites death from transplant shock esp. with a palm as debilitated as this one. I used the above procedure to repot a large Areca catechu Dwarf - it worked.

5. On removal day, expand trench and undercut the bottom of the square to lift out the palm. Wrap rootball in damp burlap. Have the new planting hole predug. If you can't plant right away place the palm in a shady place and keep the rootball moist so the roots don't dry out worse than they are now. And, please, do not hack off 90% of the fronds as some sort of fashion statement. Let it grow naturally as a palm should.

[dada]

Thank you for your help

Well unfortunately i can not use any of yours advices at this moment,  it is too late, they will come here soon and install it.

As i can see all i can do is water it very good (every day ?)

And maybe add some granular fertilizer.

 

I had some (smaller and cheaper) palms installed in the past by professionals and they died,  and one that i installed by myself is still going strong after 4 years.

Our local Moon Valley Nursery have palm of this size for $15.000. I understand they are giving some kind of warranty but what if palm dies after one year? We are out of $15k.

We are getting this one for $700. If it dies we are ok with $700 loss.

But will do all our best to not let it happen.

That`s why we asked for advice here, if there is anything else we can do after installation.

My only question right now is if lower part of palm will improve (visually) just with watering it more.

What are the first signs of palm showing it is doing better?

 

 

 

[Johnny Palmseed]

$15,000?

What?

15 thousand dollars?

Did you say Fifteen Thousand Dollars?

[aztropic]

1 hour ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

$15,000?

What?

15 thousand dollars?

Did you say Fifteen Thousand Dollars?

Yes. Moon Valley Nursery has unrealistic prices on EVERYTHING they sell. Fun to look once in a while,but NEVER buy anything there... Everything is displayed on a snapped chalkline,along with high pressure sales.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[dada]

here we go.

New home.

They said to water it every day, twice, morning and night. 15 min each

We are in Nevada

The palm (central part) is more then 10 ft high

 

[Johnny Palmseed]

14 hours ago, aztropic said:

Yes. Moon Valley Nursery has unrealistic prices on EVERYTHING they sell. Fun to look once in a while,but NEVER buy anything there... Everything is displayed on a snapped chalkline,along with high pressure sales.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

Wow that’s ludicrous pricing. I can’t even imagine how they would come up with a price like that. Or how they would make any sales.

[Johnny Palmseed]

14 hours ago, dada said:

here we go.

New home.

They said to water it every day, twice, morning and night. 15 min each

We are in Nevada

The palm (central part) is more then 10 ft high

 

It looks very nice in your yard and well placed. I assume the job was done well. Good luck and be sure to post updates in the future.

[PalmatierMeg]

16 hours ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

$15,000?

What?

15 thousand dollars?

Did you say Fifteen Thousand Dollars?

Say what? For a garden variety Chamaerops?

[awkonradi]

18 hours ago, dada said:

As i can see all i can do is water it very good (every day ?)

And maybe add some granular fertilizer.

My only question right now is if lower part of palm will improve (visually) just with watering it more.

What are the first signs of palm showing it is doing better?

Water it a lot for the entire upcoming hot season.  Hopefully experts here will comment how much.  Be cautious with fertizer for now.  Again, hopefully experts here will comment when to start, and how much to use.  The appearance of the lower part of the palm will not change very much.  The first sign that the palm is doing better will be new fronds growing.  Those will emerge as "spears".  I think you may not see any new spears for months.  As noted earlier in this thread, this palm was underwatered and overpruned, to begin with.  Now it will experience transplant shock.  Unless you were able to dig up a very large rootball, which would be very hard for a palm of this size, then the transplant shock may be severe.  Right now, your goal is survival.  Your palm may look very impressive in a few years.  I congratulate you for your $700 experiment!  I hope it succeeds!

[jwitt]

You want the soil continuously damp down below(deeper than) the rootball by about 2-3 feet. It will take 2-3 years for the roots to grow back and the palm will become established. The top, new leaves will be somewhat slow(possibly shabby looking) this summer, and then pick up as the roots (re)establish.   

I would hold off on fertilizer til next spring.

Nice specimen palm!

[Merlyn]

@dada that's a great palm, especially for $700!  I have several of them here in the swamps of Floriduh with 2-3 feet of clear trunk.  They seem to be pretty water-tolerant, though I am in sand soil that drains really fast.  A couple of things to look for:

• I'd mark the new spears with a sharpie, horizontally across the spear leaf to the ones next to it.  Watch out for the thorns!  This will tell you if the new spear is growing.  Expect it to be mostly stationary for a few weeks, at least.  A good sign of survival is if it grows steadily an inch or so per week. 
• Take some up close photos of the base of the trunk and each head.  That way in a few weeks you can compare pictures and see if things are improving or getting worse.  I mention the base of the trunk because it's always possible they "cracked" a trunk in transplant.  And at the top you can compare photos to see if the fronds are opening up (i.e. good water supply), or shrinking and closing (i.e. it's not pulling in enough water).  Going from memory of what it used to look like probably isn't going to work all that well, in my personal experience.
• On fresh plantings the normal advice here is to wait 1-2 months before fertilizing, and use a smaller dose than "normal" for the first fertilizing.  The recommended fertilizer here is an 8-2-12 ratio (or similar) like PalmGain or Florikan.  The normal dose is 1.5lb of 8-2-12 for every 100sqft of canopy.  For a palm that size, roughly 6' overall diameter, that's 3.14*3ft*3ft = 28sqft.  So 1.5lb * 28sqft / 100 = 0.42lb of 8-2-12.  It's just a guideline, and is based on Florida soils.  If it were my palm I'd buy some PalmGain off of Amazon and give it a light sprinkling in a couple of weeks, and follow up with about a half pound in 6-8 weeks from now.
• For watering, make sure you are hitting the rootball that they dug.  It'll take months and months for it to really grow out into the surrounding soil.  Just avoid any high pressure spray on the trunks, as this can cause rot.  Splashing water from a hose probably won't hurt anything, but there are a lot of cases with sprinklers hitting trunks and killing palms.  So don't put a hose sprayer on the trunks with a high pressure nozzle.

[sonoranfans]

water water and some humic acid monthly for the first year.  Humic acid creates the soil chemistry needed for beneficial microbes.  That palm for 15k is predatory.  $700 with the dig is actually pretty cheap.  Consider that that palm is already 20+ years old.  They are reputed to have a 25-50 year lifespan in europe.   How long they live after transplanting at that age in Nevada is unknown, might be a 10 year palm for you even if makes it past transplanting.   It does make a nice statement where its placed in the yard, and all things considered its worth $700 for sure, the dig and transport probably could be that much.  I also agree with merlyn,  no fertilization with NPK fertilizer for two months.  I would probably put down some langbeinite(KMag, sulpomag are other trade names for langbeinite).  It has no nitrogen so it wont burn tender roots.

[PalmatierMeg]

When you do fertilize (not in 2024) use a time release fertilizer formulated for palms.

Do not apply the blue granular stuff aimed at houseplants. That may chemically burn the roots it is trying to grow because that nasty stuff is so strong and quick acting.

[FlaPalmLover]

I'd love to know how these are doing now.