What kind of palm is this?

[Hamandah]

Hello! Does anyone know what kind of palm this is? 

this might be an obvious question but I’m new to palms and learning! 

Edited April 7, 2024 by Hamandah
Add picture

[John2468]

Pic?

[Hamandah]

1 minute ago, John2468 said:

Pic sorry about that! I forgot to add it and went to edit it and it took a second to load! 

[Silas_Sancona]

Canary Island Date palm

[Hamandah]

30 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Canary Island Date palm

Ok so I gave this right. There is a canary date and a canary island date? 

 

the canary date is the shorter wide one? And island is taller? 

[Silas_Sancona]

12 minutes ago, Hamandah said:

Ok so I gave this right. There is a canary date and a canary island date? 

 

the canary date is the shorter wide one? And island is taller? 

Canary Date/ canary Island Date ..or just " Canary "  =  Same palm species... Phoenix canariensis..  All " Date " palms, = Phoenix Genus.. which also includes the Pygmy Date Palm, Phoenix roebelenii, and the common, edible Date palm, Phoenix dactylifera..


In the case of " Canaries " as many people refer to them,  some can be quite tall and impressive, like the one you got a shot of.

  On the other hand, many specimens here are much shorter and fat / squat, rather than tall like ones i grew up around back in San Jose / would see in San Francisco or Santa Cruz.

Very common and tough palm but, majority of Phoenix palms,  inc. Canary / Canary Island,  and the much smaller Pygmy Date have modified leaves toward the base of their fronds ( Near where they attach to the trunk )  that more closely resemble large, hard spines.


With Pygmys ..and a couple other less common Phoenix species,  the " spines " are soft and flexible and don't pose much of a danger.



On the other hand, " spine- like " leaflets on Canaries, ..regular Dates,  and a couple other species are long, very sharp, and quite inflexible   ..and fairly dangerous. 

Know people who have received serious injuries trimming them. Almost had one of my eyes poked out just loading cut fronds onto the back of a truck on the same day a co worker had a couple of these " spines " break off in his arm and shoulder.. 

I myself won't grow any of them except Pygmys since they stay small, ...and one or two others  which are less dangerous to trim.

[Hamandah]

42 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Canary Date/ canary Island Date ..or just " Canary "  =  Same palm species... Phoenix canariensis..  All " Date " palms, = Phoenix Genus.. which also includes the Pygmy Date Palm, Phoenix roebelenii, and the common, edible Date palm, Phoenix dactylifera..


In the case of " Canaries " as many people refer to them,  some can be quite tall and impressive, like the one you got a shot of.

  On the other hand, many specimens here are much shorter and fat / squat, rather than tall like ones i grew up around back in San Jose / would see in San Francisco or Santa Cruz.

Very common and tough palm but, majority of Phoenix palms,  inc. Canary / Canary Island,  and the much smaller Pygmy Date have modified leaves toward the base of their fronds ( Near where they attach to the trunk )  that more closely resemble large, hard spines.


With Pygmys ..and a couple other less common Phoenix species,  the " spines " are soft and flexible and don't pose much of a danger.



On the other hand, " spine- like " leaflets on Canaries, ..regular Dates,  and a couple other species are long, very sharp, and quite inflexible   ..and fairly dangerous. 

Know people who have received serious injuries trimming them. Almost had one of my eyes poked out just loading cut fronds onto the back of a truck on the same day a co worker had a couple of these " spines " break off in his arm and shoulder.. 

I myself won't grow any of them except Pygmys since they stay small, ...and one or two others  which are less dangerous to trim.

Man, I feel like learning palms is like learning algebra for me! 🤦🏽‍♀️ it’s confusing for some reason! 
 

Trying to figure out the difference between these 2 or what the names of each are? 
 

[EPaul]

Both Canary Island Date Palms (Phoenix Canariensis). 

[Silas_Sancona]

48 minutes ago, Hamandah said:

Man, I feel like learning palms is like learning algebra for me! 🤦🏽‍♀️ it’s confusing for some reason! 
 

Trying to figure out the difference between these 2 or what the names of each are? 
 

Haha Perfectly understandable..

I look at learning various palms / plants like riding a bike ..Can be kind of intimidating at first, but, after a little experience, you can ride 100 miles -in one day-  w/ out realizing it.
 

That said, even i still have mind blanks sometimes regarding some palms that look very similar, but are in completely different genera..  ..Or, for example, might look differently here in the desert, compared to how they might look back home in San Jose, ...or in FL.

Once you've grasped the basics, getting acquainted w/ the rest will become reasonably easy.

As EPaul mentioned, both palms pictured are the same species. 1st picture is just a younger - aged specimen of the one in shot #2.

[Hamandah]

29 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Haha Perfectly understandable..

I look at learning various palms / plants like riding a bike ..Can be kind of intimidating at first, but, after a little experience, you can ride 100 miles -in one day-  w/ out realizing it.
 

That said, even i still have mind blanks sometimes regarding some palms that look very similar, but are in completely different genera..  ..Or, for example, might look differently here in the desert, compared to how they might look back home in San Jose, ...or in FL.

Once you've grasped the basics, getting acquainted w/ the rest will become reasonably easy.

As EPaul mentioned, both palms pictured are the same species. 1st picture is just a younger - aged specimen of the one in shot #2.

That’s incredible to me! The trunks look so different and even the width of the trunks and fronds is so different! Crazy. If I were to get one of these because I love how they look, I wouldn’t know what we would get as far as size and width or height I guess 

[EPaul]

The differences you're seeing come from a palm's unique genes (genetic variations within the same species), environmental conditions, palm health, and maintenance (i.e. trimming).

Or in @Merlyn's case, how many bear attacks they can take.

Edited April 8, 2024 by EPaul

[Silas_Sancona]

16 minutes ago, Hamandah said:

That’s incredible to me! The trunks look so different and even the width of the trunks and fronds is so different! Crazy. If I were to get one of these because I love how they look, I wouldn’t know what we would get as far as size and width or height I guess 

The main difference is the shorter Canary specimen hasn't grown tall enough yet to have the remaining portions of the leaves attached to the trunks removed ...or naturally fall off like the taller ..and much older Canary in the second shot where years ( and years ) of trimming leaves a fairly bare trunk, topped with a crown of leaves / fronds, and some trimmed leaf bases attached to the trunk, between the green crown, and bare trunk.

As far as what size you might consider purchasing?.. That will come down to what you can afford of course.  A field grown specimen ( Where a nursery grows X aplm, like a Canary to a certain size, before selling )  with a few feet of clean trunk will cost a lot more than if you were to start smaller ..say a specimen in a 15 or 24 gallon pot.

As mentioned, if you decide to add one to your landscape, be mindful of the spine like leaflets i mentioned..  Not fun at all when you or someone in your family get stabbed by them. Wouldn't recommend planting say by your Pool / Patio / Entertainment area.



Good alternative, esp near the pool / patio area,  where the spine issue could be a concern,  would be a Mule palm..  Looks similar, but doesn't have the stabby leaflets.  Is a cross between a Queen palm and a Pindo..  Much faster than a Pindo Palm, and much nicer looking than a Queen ( Queens are water / fertilizer hogs, and often still look awful, here at least )


Not the clearest picture, and Imo, being beat up by our  3+ months straight of 108-115F heat, every summer  kind of makes a great looking palm look a little less attractive.   Out there, i'm sure they'd look better.  Doesn't need as much water as a Queen, and are pretty cold hardy.  Probably offered in the big box stores out there.

Is another Queen Cross called a " Super Parrot  ", but those are harder to find. Might have to make a trip down to San Diego to purchase those.  A thread from the past on it: 

Note the leaf and trunk differences between the Mule here and a Canary.




What 98% of Queen palms end up looking like here....And this is ( ...was... ) a decent looking one.



Some Pygmy Dates in my neighborhood. Pictures taken right after our extreme heatwave last July. Note how good they look.  Specimens in the second shot are over trimmed..

[Merlyn]

@EPaul fortunately the bears just like my bananas and white birds of paradise...knock on wood.  Come to think of it, I did have one palm get killed by a bear.  I had just bought some mailorder palms from a Miami nursery, and unpacked them on the back porch.  About 10PM a ~200lb bear wandered up on the porch and started snuffling at the back door.  When I scared it away it trampled one of the palms, which promptly died.  

[Silas_Sancona]

24 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Is another Queen Cross called a " Super Parrot  ", but those are harder to find. Might have to make a trip down to San Diego to purchase those.  A thread from the past on it: 

** Forgot to mention that here, and in California, the " Super Parrot " is also called / marketed as the " Coconut Queen "  ..Same palm, just called a different common name. 

[FlaPalmLover]

The main concern, with you being in CA, is the South American palm weevil. They are destroying canary island pate palms left and right there. But before that emerged as an issue, the canary island date palm thrived in CA's mediterranean climate. It's a very majestic palm and grows well there. If you're in northern CA, you might be safe getting one for now.

[Jim in Los Altos]

26 minutes ago, FlaPalmLover said:

The main concern, with you being in CA, is the South American palm weevil. They are destroying canary island pate palms left and right there. But before that emerged as an issue, the canary island date palm thrived in CA's mediterranean climate. It's a very majestic palm and grows well there. If you're in northern CA, you might be safe getting one for now.

Just in certain parts of Southern CA. There are no weevils in Central or Northern CA so the thousands of Phoenix canariensis up this way are unharmed…at least as of now. The weevil will have to spread several hundreds of miles north. Not sure the differences in the climate would support their survival or not. 

[FlaPalmLover]

14 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Just in certain parts of Southern CA. There are no weevils in Central or Northern CA so the thousands of Phoenix canariensis up this way are unharmed…at least as of now. The weevil will have to spread several hundreds of miles north. Not sure the differences in the climate would support their survival or not. 

Hopefully not! 

[Hamandah]

17 hours ago, EPaul said:

The differences you're seeing come from a palm's unique genes (genetic variations within the same species), environmental conditions, palm health, and maintenance (i.e. trimming).

Or in @Merlyn's case, how many bear attacks they can take.

Interesting, so I guess if you want a certain size, it’s hard to determine maybe. 
 

Im hesitant on these even though I love how they look. 

[Hamandah]

17 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

The main difference is the shorter Canary specimen hasn't grown tall enough yet to have the remaining portions of the leaves attached to the trunks removed ...or naturally fall off like the taller ..and much older Canary in the second shot where years ( and years ) of trimming leaves a fairly bare trunk, topped with a crown of leaves / fronds, and some trimmed leaf bases attached to the trunk, between the green crown, and bare trunk.

As far as what size you might consider purchasing?.. That will come down to what you can afford of course.  A field grown specimen ( Where a nursery grows X aplm, like a Canary to a certain size, before selling )  with a few feet of clean trunk will cost a lot more than if you were to start smaller ..say a specimen in a 15 or 24 gallon pot.

As mentioned, if you decide to add one to your landscape, be mindful of the spine like leaflets i mentioned..  Not fun at all when you or someone in your family get stabbed by them. Wouldn't recommend planting say by your Pool / Patio / Entertainment area.



Good alternative, esp near the pool / patio area,  where the spine issue could be a concern,  would be a Mule palm..  Looks similar, but doesn't have the stabby leaflets.  Is a cross between a Queen palm and a Pindo..  Much faster than a Pindo Palm, and much nicer looking than a Queen ( Queens are water / fertilizer hogs, and often still look awful, here at least )


Not the clearest picture, and Imo, being beat up by our  3+ months straight of 108-115F heat, every summer  kind of makes a great looking palm look a little less attractive.   Out there, i'm sure they'd look better.  Doesn't need as much water as a Queen, and are pretty cold hardy.  Probably offered in the big box stores out there.

Is another Queen Cross called a " Super Parrot  ", but those are harder to find. Might have to make a trip down to San Diego to purchase those.  A thread from the past on it: 

Note the leaf and trunk differences between the Mule here and a Canary.




What 98% of Queen palms end up looking like here....And this is ( ...was... ) a decent looking one.



Some Pygmy Dates in my neighborhood. Pictures taken right after our extreme heatwave last July. Note how good they look.  Specimens in the second shot are over trimmed..

That’s great info thank you and love the pictures! I’m a very visual person, so I always appreciate picture. 
I’m liking the Mule! I also like the Pindo. Do you happen to know how tall both of those get? I can also look it up. The needles on the canary are scary big. I just looked up some videos and it looks like arborists hate them. 
 

If it was tall like the one I posted. 8 guess the needles wouldn’t be an issue, but it seems like that would take a really long time to get that size and look… and I’m not rich enough to buy one that size 😂. They are beautiful tall and pineapple cut though! I love that look it’s so majestic looking  

[Hamandah]

16 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

** Forgot to mention that here, and in California, the " Super Parrot " is also called / marketed as the " Coconut Queen "  ..Same palm, just called a different common name. 

Where is CA do you live? Sorry if you mentioned that and I missed in. I’m in Northern, CA 

[Silas_Sancona]

26 minutes ago, Hamandah said:

Where is CA do you live? Sorry if you mentioned that and I missed in. I’m in Northern, CA 

  No worries..

I'm actually in Chandler, AZ currently ( ...A very CA -like suburb east of Phoenix btw )..  But have lived everywhere from KS to FL.

Grew up in San Jose ..Southwest side of town...  Besides still having family back home, have extended family scattered between Santa Cruz / Scott's Valley, Sacramento, and Grass Valley.

As for my plant knowledge, Worked in the landscape / nursery trade in every state i've lived in as well, on top of being born a crazed plant nut, haha...

[Hamandah]

36 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

  No worries..

I'm actually in Chandler, AZ currently ( ...A very CA -like suburb east of Phoenix btw )..  But have lived everywhere from KS to FL.

Grew up in San Jose ..Southwest side of town...  Besides still having family back home, have extended family scattered between Santa Cruz / Scott's Valley, Sacramento, and Grass Valley.

As for my plant knowledge, Worked in the landscape / nursery trade in every state i've lived in as well, on top of being born a crazed plant nut, haha...

That’s awesome! Love it! 

[Silas_Sancona]

2 hours ago, Hamandah said:

That’s great info thank you and love the pictures! I’m a very visual person, so I always appreciate picture. 
I’m liking the Mule! I also like the Pindo. Do you happen to know how tall both of those get? I can also look it up. The needles on the canary are scary big. I just looked up some videos and it looks like arborists hate them. 
 

If it was tall like the one I posted. 8 guess the needles wouldn’t be an issue, but it seems like that would take a really long time to get that size and look… and I’m not rich enough to buy one that size 😂. They are beautiful tall and pineapple cut though! I love that look it’s so majestic looking  

I hear that   Also learn much more when i can see something, vs. learning from a book.  Sitting in on a long lecture / meeting, Half the time i'd fall asleep.  Hands on is more interesting anyway..


As mentioned, definitely a spectacular palm.. but yeahh, lol.. those " spines " will do some damage.. " Sylvester " Palms,  another species of Phoenix / Date Palm  " Spines " are even worse.   ..Still a neat palm, even if i myself would never grow one.  Grow plenty of stabby things as is, lol.

Like Cacti,  You can still include a Canary / other " spiny " palm  in your landscape if you really like it,  just place in an area where the risk of getting stabbed is as low as possible.


As far as eventual / mature height on both a Mule and/ or Pindo?,  biggest Mule i've seen ..or remember seeing, lol  is the specimen i posted the shot of.  ..No doubt there are bigger ones around / posted in various threads here on the forum though.  Same w/ larger / old Pindo Palm specimens.. 

That said, Pindos are typically sloowww ..so a really tall specimen is likely quite old.   Can't remember where it was posted but pretty sure someone had shared a shot of a really tall one from somewhere back east fairly recently..  Never seen one that tall with my own eyes.

Mules ...and the " Coconut Queen / Super Parrot " hybrid i'd mentioned   are usually faster than a Pindo.

For another easy to find option,  This great thread shows what those " Majesty " palms i'd mentioned you probably see for sale in the indoor plant section at say Lowe's or HD / other garden centers can look like when planted. 
 

 As tropical as they might look, they are reasonably easy and hardy.. Take some heat and cold, and typically grow at a decent pace ..so you wouldn't have to wait a long time for one of those 3gal sized specimens to put on some height.

To keep them looking their best, they do need regular water ..deep soak every week through the warmer months would probably be fine, though they can grow next to a pond w/ out any trouble too..  ....and fertilizer, ...applied 3 or 4x's a year.

One of my personal favorite easy to grow " feather " leaf -type of Palms.

[Hamandah]

2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

I hear that   Also learn much more when i can see something, vs. learning from a book.  Sitting in on a long lecture / meeting, Half the time i'd fall asleep.  Hands on is more interesting anyway..


As mentioned, definitely a spectacular palm.. but yeahh, lol.. those " spines " will do some damage.. " Sylvester " Palms,  another species of Phoenix / Date Palm  " Spines " are even worse.   ..Still a neat palm, even if i myself would never grow one.  Grow plenty of stabby things as is, lol.

Like Cacti,  You can still include a Canary / other " spiny " palm  in your landscape if you really like it,  just place in an area where the risk of getting stabbed is as low as possible.


As far as eventual / mature height on both a Mule and/ or Pindo?,  biggest Mule i've seen ..or remember seeing, lol  is the specimen i posted the shot of.  ..No doubt there are bigger ones around / posted in various threads here on the forum though.  Same w/ larger / old Pindo Palm specimens.. 

That said, Pindos are typically sloowww ..so a really tall specimen is likely quite old.   Can't remember where it was posted but pretty sure someone had shared a shot of a really tall one from somewhere back east fairly recently..  Never seen one that tall with my own eyes.

Mules ...and the " Coconut Queen / Super Parrot " hybrid i'd mentioned   are usually faster than a Pindo.

For another easy to find option,  This great thread shows what those " Majesty " palms i'd mentioned you probably see for sale in the indoor plant section at say Lowe's or HD / other garden centers can look like when planted. 
 

 As tropical as they might look, they are reasonably easy and hardy.. Take some heat and cold, and typically grow at a decent pace ..so you wouldn't have to wait a long time for one of those 3gal sized specimens to put on some height.

To keep them looking their best, they do need regular water ..deep soak every week through the warmer months would probably be fine, though they can grow next to a pond w/ out any trouble too..  ....and fertilizer, ...applied 3 or 4x's a year.

One of my personal favorite easy to grow " feather " leaf -type of

 

Majesties are pretty! Might have to add that to the list. Also really interested in mule and Pindo. How do you like queens? 

[Silas_Sancona]

44 minutes ago, Hamandah said:

 

Majesties are pretty! Might have to add that to the list. Also really interested in mule and Pindo. How do you like queens? 

Being completely honest,  -but not trying to discourage you if you're interested in them-..  I'm not the biggest fan of Queen Palms...  Aside from being wayy to common,  they can have issues w/ heat and drought ..and can turn from looking really good, to looking bad almost overnight if they don't get enough fertilizer.  

Grew up with ..tons... of them planted in yards around the neighborhoods i grew up in back in San Jose and, while some still look great, there are many others i'll see in yards when i look at updated street views that look ..awful ..and that is in an area where, overall, Queens can do well / look great - for a Queen Palm..

Since they're much easier to find now compared to even a few decades ago, Mules, Majesties, and / or the Coconut Queen would be what i would be looking at if landscaping my own yard anywhere out there. Those still need some water and fertilizer to look good, but will be easier to keep happy  **..my own opinion of course. **   Other people here may differ in their opinion on that,  which is fine.

Some folks absolutely love Queens ...and have great results growing them. Even if i haven't seen them in person,  @Jim in Los Altos has some great examples in his yard / palm collection over in the Bay Area..

If they were the only feathery -leaved palm option available to you, then yea, i might plant a couple ( kind of reluctantly though, haha ).. To me, they're just too common and ..to my eye, don't speak " tropical " when i see them.

Again, Just my opinion. Would rather share an honest opinion w/ you than just say something generic like " Love 'em, They're great, have no issues "

While some palm options mentioned in this discussion for you to research might require a little effort to find, you're in one of the best places in the country full of great growers / long time collectors to find some great, hardy for your area palm options that your neighbors might not have, but may start asking you .." where did you find that! " with the    look in their eyes  kinds of questions.

Even if you have no intention of turning your yard into a palm jungle, it's always fun to be yard in the neighborhood that has all the cool stuff.