Help picking palms!

[Hamandah]

 Ok Im new to palms and a bit intimidated by them but love the look. 
 

we are redoing our backyard and just put in a pool. I love the tropical landscape look, and it seems like some type of palms would be a great addition to a tropical landscape look. 
 

some people have scared me away from Queen palms because the get so tall, maintenance to keep them looking nice, etc.

bit if I didn’t do Queen palms, what are some other smaller options? 
 

I was looking at Pygmy dwarf date palms but someone mentioned how they have really sharp needles on them? I have 2 small kids, and wondering if it would be dangerous to have those? 
 

love sago palms. 
 

Are there any medium to smaller palm type trees shrubs that aren’t too sharp or have needles? 
 

 

[96720]

Where in California are you located? Allegoptera arenaria is a great small palm kind of has a cycad/palm look the pigmy date palm has some thorns but I don’t think it is anything to worry about I like royals they also get tall but they drop their fronds no trimming necessary others will chime in on a lot of other choices!! There are also a lot of choices when it comes to cycads!!!

Edited March 22, 2024 by 96720
Addition

[Hamandah]

I’m in northern CA near Sacramento! 
 

Thank you! I will look at those! 
 

I was set in a pigme date palm for one of them and a lady told me she had needles on them sharper than sewing needles and it kind of scared me! 

 

 

[Harry’s Palms]

You didn’t mention if you are planting in full sun or not. A lot of the more cold hardy palms in the size range need some protection from full afternoon sun. A King Palm may do well. They get tall but have a smaller trunk diameter than a Queen and are self cleaning for the most part . The inflorescence isn’t nearly as messy either. They are fairly easy to grow , common , and low maintenance. They do like water to look their best and look great as multiple planting , 2-3 palms of different heights. These are about 25 years old .Harry

[ZPalms]

I may be wrong but I think you can prune the needles off pygmys

[JLM]

15 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

I may be wrong but I think you can prune the needles off pygmys

You can, but large happy Pygmys can put out between 3 and 4 new fronds all at the same time, it would be a constant battle cutting them off.

[idontknowhatnametuse]

I would get some Chamaedorea costaricana and Syagrus schizophylla

[happypalms]

Howea bellmoreana the bell kentia is a real winner and slow to grow so staying at eye level for quite a few years 

[happypalms]

14 hours ago, Hamandah said:

 Ok Im new to palms and a bit intimidated by them but love the look. 
 

we are redoing our backyard and just put in a pool. I love the tropical landscape look, and it seems like some type of palms would be a great addition to a tropical landscape look. 
 

some people have scared me away from Queen palms because the get so tall, maintenance to keep them looking nice, etc.

bit if I didn’t do Queen palms, what are some other smaller options? 
 

I was looking at Pygmy dwarf date palms but someone mentioned how they have really sharp needles on them? I have 2 small kids, and wondering if it would be dangerous to have those? 
 

love sago palms. 
 

Are there any medium to smaller palm type trees shrubs that aren’t too sharp or have needles? 
 

 

Instead of Pygmy date try lytocarum weddlianum similar in appearance Pygmy date have sharp spines not really needle sharp but are quite vicious even when dried up and dead hanging on to the palm so if  are going to prune them cut them very close to the stem leaving no sharp spines at all so the next time you prune them you won’t get spiked that’s the mistake a lot of new gardeners make by not removing the leaf completely hence many a complaint about them they could be a problem when young for pets and children my choice would be the wedding palm lytocarum weddlianum with such a beautiful second name 

[Harry’s Palms]

The  H. Belmoriana is a lovely palm , but the Howea Foresteriana Or Kentia Palm ( a bit faster growing)are more readily available , both are more $$.. Worth every penny as far as I am concerned. Much slower growth than the Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana or King Palm (bungalow) . The Kentia palms I have that are the same age as the King palms are just over half the size . Also , Kentia or Bell palms tolerate wind better , once established. They do require cool evening temperatures and copious amounts of water in well draining soil , preferably a sandy loam mix. Whatever palm you choose , it is imperative that you dig a hole that is twice the size of the root ball of the palm and fill with a good top soil from the nursery after placing the palm in its home . You can mix it with the dirt you dug up to creat the hole if you like , I usually do. Most good nurseries that sell palms know what to recommend when you tell them what your plan is . When you choose , be sure to post pictures . We always enjoy seeing a newly planted palm!😉 Harry

Edited March 23, 2024 by Harry’s Palms

[PalmatierMeg]

If you have very small children you might want to avoid all the Phoenix/date palms including roebelenii/pygmy date or put up some kind of cage around them for a few years. Pygmy have viciously sharp 3-4” spines and produce fronds constantly. We trim them when they fall below vertical (palms are 11-12’ tall and planted in the mid-90s). We wear leather gloves when we trim them and pick them up with tongs to put in garbage cans for lawn waste pickup. I would prefer no Phoenix spp at all but my husband brought home an artificial clumped trio to stick in the ground at the end of the driveway where they’ve grown happily ever since.

I agree with @Harry’s Palms about the Howea genus, which requires cooler temps esp at night. I’m not sure but does Hedyscepe canteburyana also do well in NOCAL? Genus Rhopalostylis? If you are willing to provide copious water the so called “King” palms in genus Archonotophoenix do well in CA. Possibly Jubaea chilensis (which can get huge) or a species of genus Parajubaea might make it there - I can’t grow either genus here in SWFL as they can’t survive my sweltering climate.

I can tell you are a palm newbie because you focus solely on pinnate or bipinnate palms. Have you considered fan/palmate palms? Most newbies likely don’t consider palmate palms to be palms. In general palmate palms are more forgiving of cooler climates - the cold hardiest palms in the world are almost exclusively palmate: Sabal, Trachycarpus, Serenoa. Other palmate palms that do well in many parts of CA are the numerous species of Brahea (I can’t grow them either - you may notice that palms that grow well in your Mediterranean climate tend to be no-grows in FL as they need cool nights and croak or fail to thrive in our sweltering 6-7 month summers). I mention but discount the ubiquitous Washingtonias that line the skyline of Beverly Hills and are the equivalent of weedy Roystonea regia in FL.

But back to the much-coveted pinnate palms, esp. crown shafted tropical darlings people in Minnesota lust after. The ultimate uber tropical pinnate palm is the coconut - don’t waste your patience or money on that one. Also, avoid the Adonidia merrillii/the cutesy Christmas palm, another super weedy heartbreaker almost as cold sensitive as coconuts. 

Many of the large Chrysalidocarpus/former Dypsis do very well in Cali (but not in SWFL - notice the trend). Off hand I can think of sp baronii, robustus, piluifer, decipiens, onilahensis, prestonianus, hovomantsina. And many more. What they have in common is that they demand cool nights (50s, 60s) vs. FL’s nighttime swelter (75F to 90+F). True topical palm trees want daytime temps above 80F to the upper 90sF and nights between 75F and 90F during summer. In winter some tropical species suffer damage below 60F. My lowest low this past winter was 44.8F. All my coconuts suffered major foliage damage because we had 94+ sunless days with highs in the 50sF and 60sF. Even with no freezes but multiple lows in the 40sF can critically damage or kill them. And cold winter rain like you get in Cali can kill tropical palms. Except for one day in early Jan. 2010 I have never seen rain below 50F. Winter is our dry season in SFL

You can fill your yard with pinnate, even crown shafted palms but do your research (Palmpedia.com) before you grab whatever piques your fancy. If I can grow it there's a good chance you can’t. If you can grow it easily I’m sure I can’t keep it alive - I’ve tried.

Welcome to PalmTalk

[Billy]

I agree with all the above. Go for an eclectic mix of species to achieve the best outcome. I think staying away from the more commonly used palms in landscape (Queens, phoenix roebellenii, cycas revoluta, etc.) will give you a garden that is not only prettier, but stands out from the rest. Some fan palms to contrast the feather leafed palms will go a long way for you. Pritchardia species would look amazing mixed in with other species (Dypsis, Howea, Burretiokentia, Chambeyronia, Cyphophoenix, etc.) by a pool. A particular palm house in Cardiff comes to mind. The options are endless. Be sure to be patient and take your time with it because your taste might change as you venture on in this journey. 

[PalmatierMeg]

Pritchardias are great palms and so are the Livistonas - both palmate species BTW. Maybe someone in NOCAL can tell us whether Ravenea rivularis, i.e., "majesty palm" can be grown in your area.

Cycas revoluta is a cycad, an ancient (350 my) coning plant unrelated to palms (70 my) which are flowering plants. You need to research cycads separately. But they are neat plants and a welcome addition to any palm garden. Their red seeds are poisonous however so you may want to wait until your kids are a bit older till you find one old enough to reproduce (male & female on separate plants). Or you can cut off its reproductive cone before it forms seeds.

[Foggy Paul]

Depending on where you are in Sacramento, you might be on the bubble for Kentias which are hardy to 9b. But if you can grow that, you’ll be able to grow Chamaedorea plumosa. A grouping of those would look great by a pool and they can take the heat. 

Edited March 24, 2024 by Foggy Paul