Triple adonidia potting up question

[kimgerlach1]

Hello all, 

 

I just ordered two triple trunk adonidias. I saw that they are 3 ft tall and  was hopeful that they were being shipped having already been potted up. But I saw in the description that they are being shipped bare root. 

 

I have seen many images of triple trunk ones potted up where the trunks kind of bow out. I love that look. I asked the seller how to pot them up in order to get that effect. He told me that it doesn't matter. He was quite rude about me asking the question BTW, but whatever... 

I decided to Google the question and saw that a member on this forum named (I think) "Not a TA" posted about out how to plant seeds together to get that curve effect. 

He said:

The decision of how far apart depends on the "look" you're trying to achieve. If you plant say three seeds right next to one another they'll grow with a fairly straight stem angling wider as they get taller. If you plant three seedlings together that were started separately and angle them out, they'll grow with more of a curved stem.

Since the seller is shipping six three foot tall adonidias, how would you plant 3 in a 5 gallon pot that would get that effect? 

And I thank you from the bottom of my heart in advance. The picture I attached is somewhat bowed. I would like even a slight more curve than the photo. 

[John2468]

I always thought they naturally grew away from each other because of the competition of sunlight. I could be wrong.

Edited March 18, 2024 by John2468

[kimgerlach1]

I'm not sure if you are wrong or right. I wish I did. I really wish the seller would have had them planted that way so that I wouldn't have to wonder.. 

[RichardHemsley]

Hi,

I have a multi plant Adondia,  5 plants varying in size from 60  - 90cm high and they are planted very close together and it doesn't do the plant justice,  in my opinion they will look better spaced out in the pot. I intend to split mine and space them out more.

The ones in your photo look like they have been planted fairly close together though.

[aabell]

It's my understanding that the closer seedlings are planted together, the more they will naturally curve away from each other once they start trunking. As their bases bulge out, the individual trunks are forced away from each other at an angle, and the curved growth is a result of the crown's desire to grow vertically. If they are planted further apart (such as three 1 gallon plants planted next to each other rather than 3 seeds germinated in the same pot) then the bases of the the trunks will not push against each other as quickly or as much and won't get the same effect - more like 3 parallel trunks right next to each other. 

In other words, it's not competition for light or crown space that causes palms to lean away from each other, it's competition among the footprint of the trunks. If you want the traditional "curving triple" effect, you want to plant them as close together as possible. Couldn't hurt to plant them at a slight angle with the bases nearly touching if you really want to promote the leaning effect. 

 

[kimgerlach1]

  On 3/18/2024 at 4:38 PM, RichardHemsley said:

Hi,

I have a multi plant Adondia,  5 plants varying in size from 60  - 90cm high and they are planted very close together and it doesn't do the plant justice,  in my opinion they will look better spaced out in the pot. I intend to split mine and space them out more.

The ones in your photo look like they have been planted fairly close together though.

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I agree with you about them looking too close together, I just couldn't find a google picture with the amount of curve I have seen on youtube that people have. So I am guessing that I need to not put them near the center of the 5 gallon pot they will go into, but more off center and equidistant from the center to the edge of the pot maybe? I'm just scared to pot them too close to the edge to get them away from one another and not go straight up, but bow out. And thank you!

[kimgerlach1]

  On 3/18/2024 at 6:16 PM, aabell said:

It's my understanding that the closer seedlings are planted together, the more they will naturally curve away from each other once they start trunking. As their bases bulge out, the individual trunks are forced away from each other at an angle, and the curved growth is a result of the crown's desire to grow vertically. If they are planted further apart (such as three 1 gallon plants planted next to each other rather than 3 seeds germinated in the same pot) then the bases of the the trunks will not push against each other as quickly or as much and won't get the same effect - more like 3 parallel trunks right next to each other. 

In other words, it's not competition for light or crown space that causes palms to lean away from each other, it's competition among the footprint of the trunks. If you want the traditional "curving triple" effect, you want to plant them as close together as possible. Couldn't hurt to plant them at a slight angle with the bases nearly touching if you really want to promote the leaning effect. 

 

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That is so helpful!! Thank you so much for explaining that in the detailed way that you did. Sometimes I can read a description and still not 'get' what exactly the person is trying to convey. So this really did help me to understand! I saw in the sellers pictures of the palms, they were all close together in the center and going straight up, so I thought.. uh oh, that isn't the way I have seen them that I like, but they are only 2 and 1/2 years old. Do you know in a general way that they will begin to curve? 

For example, if they are 2 1/2 years old and live outside in a pot all year round or even in a pot in a greenhouse in the wintertime, what could you expect? I am moving to a 7b so they will have to stay in a pot until I move to the 8 b that I will hopefully be at in the future. I'm sure that answer can vary wildly, but I was just wondering if there was a range for potted ones. And thank you so very much!! It's like you knew what kind of learner that I am and knew how to teach me,

[aabell]

  On 3/18/2024 at 8:04 PM, kimgerlach1 said:

That is so helpful!! Thank you so much for explaining that in the detailed way that you did. Sometimes I can read a description and still not 'get' what exactly the person is trying to convey. So this really did help me to understand! I saw in the sellers pictures of the palms, they were all close together in the center and going straight up, so I thought.. uh oh, that isn't the way I have seen them that I like, but they are only 2 and 1/2 years old. Do you know in a general way that they will begin to curve? 

For example, if they are 2 1/2 years old and live outside in a pot all year round or even in a pot in a greenhouse in the wintertime, what could you expect? I am moving to a 7b so they will have to stay in a pot until I move to the 8 b that I will hopefully be at in the future. I'm sure that answer can vary wildly, but I was just wondering if there was a range for potted ones. And thank you so very much!! It's like you knew what kind of learner that I am and knew how to teach me,

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Glad I could help. You'll get the curve effect only after their trunks start to fatten up and crowd into each other, which typically happens gradually as palms gain height. (Palms trunks cannot gain diameter indefinitely like dicot trees, but the trunks of many species do expand with maturity, especially right at the base)

Adonidia are considered quite tropical in nature, requiring a lot of warmth and humidity, and so I can't predict how they will do in your conditions. A greenhouse would probably be ideal in your zone. Palms will also only form thick trunks if they are growing vigorously with plenty of light and water, otherwise you will get thin, etiolated plants. I only have experience growing Adonidia outside in Florida, where they are durable, steady growers that can start to trunk roughly 3 years or so from seed on average given ideal conditions.  But they are slower to add height than similar palms like Veitchia, Ptychosperma, or Archontophoenix because their leaf bases (as you can see from the rings on the trunk) are packed relatively tightly together. I wouldn't want to put a range to it, but I would say you could be waiting quite a few years before you see anything resembling the specimen above - not to discourage but to set realistic expectations. 

 

[kimgerlach1]

  On 3/18/2024 at 9:21 PM, aabell said:

Glad I could help. You'll get the curve effect only after their trunks start to fatten up and crowd into each other, which typically happens gradually as palms gain height. (Palms trunks cannot gain diameter indefinitely like dicot trees, but the trunks of many species do expand with maturity, especially right at the base)

Adonidia are considered quite tropical in nature, requiring a lot of warmth and humidity, and so I can't predict how they will do in your conditions. A greenhouse would probably be ideal in your zone. Palms will also only form thick trunks if they are growing vigorously with plenty of light and water, otherwise you will get thin, etiolated plants. I only have experience growing Adonidia outside in Florida, where they are durable, steady growers that can start to trunk roughly 3 years or so from seed on average given ideal conditions.  But they are slower to add height than similar palms like Veitchia, Ptychosperma, or Archontophoenix because their leaf bases (as you can see from the rings on the trunk) are packed relatively tightly together. I wouldn't want to put a range to it, but I would say you could be waiting quite a few years before you see anything resembling the specimen above - not to discourage but to set realistic expectations. 

 

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Thank you again!! I figured it would take as many years. I really appreciate all of the information you have given me. I keep notes and advice on all of my individual palms in a word doc, and I add to it as I learn. And your advice is going to be copied and pasted into it. I really do appreciate it.