Palm on the UK south coast - ID please

[Palmstarter]

Hi, I've just returned from holiday in Madeira where this forum's thread was invaluable for guiding me as to what I was looking at, so thanks already for your contributions.

I thought it was too cold and windy here to grow anything palm-like and bring a more exotic feel to my garden, but on Sunday I drove past a palm in the coastal village of Highcliffe, Dorset.

It was tipping it down so I didn't stop to take photos, but you can see it on Google Maps here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/cFUTbD3SeP9nT3Gb7. The sea is just behind the flats and it's not a sheltered location.

I think it could be a Mexican fan palm, European fan palm, or Chinese windmill palm - but I don't know how to tell them apart. Can anyone help? I can pop back and get photos if needed.

[iko.]

Welcome.

That one looks like a Trachycarpus fortunei. I’m not an expert of Dorset’s climates but in that area you should be able to grow some other palms and tropical looking plants. 

[Palmtreedude69]

Welcome to Palmtalk Palmstarter! I agree with the person above it must ba a trachycarpus fortunei definitely to cold there for a mexican fan palm or European fan palm.

[RichardHemsley]

Yes its T fortunei.

Very easy to grow on the south coast of England (I spent my whole life in Sussex before moving to Mallorca) you will also be able to grow Chamerops humilis and Phoenix canariensis,  although the later will need some winter protection. 

[Josh76]

Welcome @Palmstarter. It's a Trachycarpus fortunei. But on the south coast, Washingtonia are commonly grown. If you look at the European Palm Society forum you'll see a map with the more notable ones shown.

[redbeard917]

Aren't there better suited species, that come from cool maritime climate areas, such as Juania?

[Palmstarter]

Thanks everyone, you've been really helpful, and it's great to hear there should be more than one species I can grow.

I inherited a large Cordyline australis with the house which unlike the neighbours' (many houses here have one) has a 40cm/15 inch diameter trunk. It flowers well and the starlings flock to eat the fruit(?) but it's lost its shape and is a bit big for the location. Anything I can do with it, or best replaced?

[Foxpalms]

It's a Trachy. What can grow there is really going to depend on how close you are to the sea. The closer the more species you can grow, due to the sea moderating the temperature more. Mediterranean fan palms, phoenix canariensis and any type of Washingtonia would be a good starting point as they are inexpensive and easy to find. Considering we had a pretty bad freeze in Jan and a very bad freeze last year that area had a 9a winter. Therefore most hardy palms should be fine. 

Edited March 1, 2024 by Foxpalms

[Foxpalms]

  On 2/28/2024 at 12:20 AM, Palmtreedude69 said:

Welcome to Palmtalk Palmstarter! I agree with the person above it must ba a trachycarpus fortunei definitely to cold there for a mexican fan palm or European fan palm.

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Definitely not too cold for mexican fan palms or European fan palms.

[Foxpalms]

  On 2/29/2024 at 12:41 AM, redbeard917 said:

Aren't there better suited species, that come from cool maritime climate areas, such as Juania?

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Whilst Juania are 9a palms they are better for 9b+ areas. This area might average out as a cold 9b but can see 9a winters from the data that I can find online. Seems to be one of the colder spots on the south coast. Not only that but Juania would be extremely difficult to find. I have seen Washingtonia and canary island date palms not far from there in Bournemouth do fine.

[Palmstarter]

  On 3/1/2024 at 3:50 AM, Foxpalms said:

Whilst Juania are 9a palms they are better for 9b+ areas. This area might average out as a cold 9b but can see 9a winters from the data that I can find online. Seems to be one of the colder spots on the south coast. Not only that but Juania would be extremely difficult to find. I have seen Washingtonia and canary island date palms not far from there in Bournemouth do fine.

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I'd go with this being one of the colder spots, as I'm 500m back from the sea, on a cliff top exposed to the southwesterly winds which can be quite strong. The weather here is more like Lyme Regis than Bournemouth, which is sheltered by the Isle of Purbeck from the worst of it. I'm heading to Bournemouth this weekend to taka look at Alum Chine tropical gardens and see what they have.

[DoomsDave]

  On 3/1/2024 at 10:21 AM, Palmstarter said:

I'd go with this being one of the colder spots, as I'm 500m back from the sea, on a cliff top exposed to the southwesterly winds which can be quite strong. The weather here is more like Lyme Regis than Bournemouth, which is sheltered by the Isle of Purbeck from the worst of it. I'm heading to Bournemouth this weekend to taka look at Alum Chine tropical gardens and see what they have.

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[Harry’s Palms]

I would try a Butia as well. They handle wind and some cold tolerance. How much cold? I dunno , but I think it would be worth a try. Harry

[Chester B]

Please don't cut down that fat Cordyline, it looks great.

For reference a Cordyline is hardy to zone 9A, so when you look up palms this can be your guide.  I also recommend watching Yorkshire Kris http://www.youtube.com/@YorkshireKRIS  and Georges Jungle Garden http://www.youtube.com/@GeorgesJungleGarden for some great content on what exotics you can grow.

[redbeard917]

I too like the Cordyline, but opinions may vary. I didn't mean to single out Juania, but aren't there numerous cloud forest and mountain palms from Central and South America and maritime climate palms from Oceania which could work in warm parts of the UK? Not to mention exotics like Gunnera, and if you can grow the latter, you can probably grow whatever palms grow alongside it in habitat.

[Foxpalms]

  On 3/1/2024 at 3:00 PM, redbeard917 said:

I too like the Cordyline, but opinions may vary. I didn't mean to single out Juania, but aren't there numerous cloud forest and mountain palms from Central and South America and maritime climate palms from Oceania which could work in warm parts of the UK? Not to mention exotics like Gunnera, and if you can grow the latter, you can probably grow whatever palms grow alongside it in habitat.

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There are but it really depends on what part of the UK. Some of the chamaedorea palms would work in that area for example. When looking at those types of palms in the UK you have to look at the winters and summers. Costal Cornwall could definitely grow most of those palms for example as the winters are zone 9b-10a and the summers are mild. Whilst in recent years it has been slightly warmer than average highs for most of the those areas in the summer would only be 20c/68f with lows around 59f/15c to 16c/61f with high humidity. Meanwhile here in central London it's mild enough in the winter and some of those palms do grow here. However due to the drier less humid climate with warmer summers it could potentially get too hot here in the summer. For example July 2018 had an average high of over 28c/82.5f and during july 2022 the high of 100f followed by an 82f low and 104.5f the next day certainly would have killed some of those palms. In 2022 after months of warm dry weather followed by hot dry weather that 40c day with low humidity melted Gunneras in parts of the south east that weren't in the shade whilst in Cornwall a month later I saw massive ones that looked spotless. Lepidorrhachis for example in theory should work in parts of Cornwall whilst here they would probably die during the summer. To sum it up the cloud forest species do work but it really depends on where in the UK for each species.