Potting Up Seedlings

[freakypalmguy]

I noticed most pot up seedlings to small containers. Is their a reason for this? The reason I ask, is I have a lot of one and three gallon containers and I would rather just go straight to them. Is this bad for the plant? I seem to remember someone using the term "over-potting".

Any advice appreciated

Matt

[bgl]

Matt,

this really depends on the species. Some have tiny roots and are slow growing, and you can easily keep them in a smaller pot for a long time. For nurseries, space is typically at a premium, so it makes sense to put a seedling like that in a smaller pot to save space. I typically put even my smallest seedlings directly into 1G pots. Don't have time to first put them in 4inch pots, and then move them up to 1G size 8 monhs down the road. Some seedlings can easily go into a larger pot (like 2G or 3G). Wodyetia and Carpoxylon come to mind, since they have fairly large roots even as seedlings. And I've put recently germinated Bismarckia seedlings directly into deep 5G pots, and they love it!

Bo-Göran

[www.dadluvsu.com]

I would think the other consideration is your potting medium...  If it is highly organic and will degrade or decompose faster than the intended timespan of the palm in an "oversized pot" it would be better to step up with smaller pots more frequently...  If your using a mostly inorganic soil that won't degrade as quickly (mostly sand or something of the like) potting in a larger pot would seem ideal (less restriction on root growth) if you have the space...

[RadPalms]

William

Could you put a recent pic of your Carpoxylon seedlings so I can compare them to how mine are doing here in California....would be interesting seeing that they are from the same seed and germinated at the same time..

Thanks

Curt

[chris.oz]

(PiousPalms @ Oct. 30 2007,17:25)

QUOTE

I would think the other consideration is your potting medium...  If it is highly organic and will degrade or decompose faster than the intended timespan of the palm in an "oversized pot" it would be better to step up with smaller pots more frequently...  If your using a mostly inorganic soil that won't degrade as quickly (mostly sand or something of the like) potting in a larger pot would seem ideal (less restriction on root growth) if you have the space...

Hit the spot there IMO.  Wet muck in the bottom of your pots is a no no generally, unless the palms are known to grow in muck.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Only a palm freak would go out in this weather to take a picture of seedlings! :cool:

[freakypalmguy]

Thank you Bo and William. I have plenty of space so I think I will go with the 1 gals with a good mix with some sand in it.

I have purchased some plants that have a layer of rock in the bottom. This seems like it would be a good idea for most palms as it would help with drainage and help prevent the buildup of muk. What do you think of that? Maybe even just a small layer of perlite?

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Have a read on this older thread...  It talks about putting different layers in pots... Particularly what Jerry@TreeZoo had to say

http://palmtalk.org/cgi-bin....yrofoam

For my generic potting mixture I use almost half and half course perlite and canadian peat...  I usually throw in some sand in for good measure and occaisionally whatever else is laying around... bark, hydroton, etc.

Just curious, what kind of seedlings are we talking about?

:cool:

[freakypalmguy]

Great link William. That is why I love this site.

Most of my seedling and seeds are of the cold hardy types. Phoenix loureiri var. humilis, Butia capitata, Butia eriospatha, Butia archeri, Butia paraguayensis, Chamaedorea radicalis, Dypsis orange crush, Dasylirion longissima, Xanthorea pressii, and Yucca rostrata.

The first seeds I have germinated were the Xanthorea or Australian grass tree. I learned real quick about damping off of seedling as I lost most. Of 50 germinated I have about twelve plants left.

As far as palms go, this is my first attempt. My Phoenix l. var h. seeds came from palmotrafficante and were ultra fresh. They exploded in a couple weeks.

The rest are still brewing, with some of the capitata seeds allready sprouting.

Thanks again for the replies.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Hey Curt! How are yer coke bottle carpoxies?  Where's da pic?

:cool:

[RadPalms]

Hi William.....

Yours seem to be just alittle ahead of mine in development.  Most are really tall now and three are starting to open up there first leaf.  Must be the coke........lol,  Got home late today but will take a pic on thrusday and post....yours are looking great....you do seem to have the touch......

Curt

[BS Man about Palms]

Its also to "regulate" your watering on a smaller pot.  A critical point on seedlings.

[freakypalmguy]

(BS, Man about Palms @ Oct. 31 2007,21:02)

QUOTE

Its also to "regulate" your watering on a smaller pot.  A critical point on seedlings.

I'm learning and have killed a few to over watering, it's hard to restrain myself

[gavilan1]

William, how do you tell which way is up with carpoxylon seed?  Do you wait until the shoot emerges?  I didn't, and had 5 shoots pointing down, and variations thereof, with 2" to 3" of growth, before I decided to check the germ'd seed for activity this morning.  My bad.  The shoot seems to emerge at the same end as the roots.  I bought these from Christian, and they all germinated quickly.  I planted them in 1G pots, covered them with baggies, and left them on the heat mat.  I guessed at the orientation.  I guessed wrong 5x.  This seed doesn't seem to be up to speed in the "geotropism" dept.  All shoots are now pointing up, and in the air.

[RadPalms]

William here are a few shots of my carpoxylon just taken a few minutes ago....

Doug....as long as you place the seed back the way you had it going you won't have a problem.....it will have a little spike that looks like a birds beak poping up at the pointed end roots down......

[RadPalms]

here is a second

[RadPalms]

#3

[RadPalms]

I am having a problem with keeping humidity leveal up....may have to get a fogger

Curt

[BS Man about Palms]

(freakypalmguy @ Nov. 01 2007,09:36)

QUOTE

(BS @ Man about Palms,Oct. 31 2007,21:02)

QUOTE

Its also to "regulate" your watering on a smaller pot.  A critical point on seedlings.

I'm learning and have killed a few to over watering, it's hard to restrain myself

Yep, I don't try any "heavier" mixes now until the palm is a healthy 3 gal size.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Curt, your Carpoxylon are plugging along nicely!!  Pretty soon, you and I are going to have the same problem...  Not enough space!

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Doug, I have no clue which way is up, left, right, or down!  I just stick em the dirt and they seem to figure out which way to grow...

How's that saying go?  "God's in charge of the flowers and trees, I'm in charge of the seeds and weeds" :laugh:

[gavilan1]

William, I had 5 shoots growing downward into the potting mix up to 3" into the pot, before I took them out for a look.  Only 1 of the 6 that I have germ'd had a shoot going up vertically into the air, and only 1.5" so far.  The others didn't show any activity.  That's why I took them out of the pots and was shocked to see the spikes growing down, some with tips that looked "leaf-like".

Curt, I kept the humidity high by placing large Zip-Loc bags over the 1G pots, upside down and unzipped, to create a small "greenhouse" effect.  Works quite well at keeping the moisture level high.  Use a tall enough bag, keep it from contacting the growth, and keep an eye out for mold (and moss).

[RadPalms]

Doug.....sounds like your seed was ready to germinate as you got them and had already pick it's course for the root and spike development..

[gavilan1]

That is exactly what happened.  Christian's seed is very good.  The Zip-Loc bag that they arrived in had sufficient moisture and since I left them in the padded manila envelope that they shipped in for another few days here in the house, the seeds had germ'd and started throwing roots.  I planted them based on the root growth, but this was unreliable.  The shoots grew 180 degrees opposite of where I thought that they would emerge.  Good thing that I checked them.  I lost a little growth time, I'm sure, but now they're pointed in the right direction (literally).

[RadPalms]

These seeds were indeed awesome.....94 out of 100 for me....todate and I am sure maybe one or two more will pop...Thanks Christian for the great seed....looking forward to getting more of these when you get your next batch....

Curt

Doug good luck with your new babies and take a pic if you can sometime of the development

[freakypalmguy]

OK, well I went ahead and potted up my Phoenix loureiri var. humilis seedlings into one gallons.

Seelings separated out of the germination container.

Here they are in one gallons

Immediately I realized, holy smokes, I'm going to run out of room quick. So I figured I better fix it while they are not rooted in.

Two days later.

Ahhhh.... Much better.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

NICE!!!  I like those containers and trays!  Space efficiency is what the seedling game is all about! :cool:

[Exotic Life]

Hi,

In the most picture's i see that almost every container with a seedling are above the ground, the underside of the containers don't touch the ground. What's the reason about that...

Maybe i know him already because my own containers with seedlings are directly on the ground, and afer a growing summer the new roots are growing between the stones, and it's ugly. But i'm asking for sure... maybe i'm going to do that also!

Next spring i'm going to plant al my little container Trachycarpus, around the 200 in 3 different sizes directly in the ground, i have got last week a piece of ground by a farmer so that's is a nice thing for me and the little Trachycarpus.

Robbin

[www.dadluvsu.com]

I try to keep my pots off the ground for 3 reasons that I know of...  

1. Less chance of pests (this has yet to be proven )

2. Air root pruning

3. Best air circulation

[Exotic Life]

Hi,

That are good 3 reasons I know the stones that you're using. Stones like that we have also over here, maybe i'm going to that also. But i don't know how it is there, but that black boxes where the palms are in, i can't buy that overhere. Normally only the company's use things like that.

Robbin

[Logolight]

WOW!!!  What an excellent show of Capoxylons!  William, if you have too many, I'll be glad to take a few off your hands.  

[Pivi]

(freakypalmguy @ Nov. 08 2007,19:26)

QUOTE

Matt what size are those pots on the table (in containers)?

(width and hight).

How long can you keep seedlings in them?

William, what about yours?

[freakypalmguy]

Hi Pivi,

My pots are 3X3X9. 25 fit per flat. As to how long they can stay in each individual container would vary on the species. This is also my first attempt at germination and potting up, so I will have to defer answering to the more experienced growers on the board.

Matt