I’m growing both of these varieties outdoors in zone 7b New York with just a frost cover when needed. I would like to know which variety is the hardier one. Thank you.

Most folks around here don’t think Bulgaria is any hardier the standard variety.  Waggy is generally considered less hardy, no idea what nanital is so I can’t help there, sorry 

28 minutes ago, RJ said:

Most folks around here don’t think Bulgaria is any hardier the standard variety.  Waggy is generally considered less hardy, no idea what nanital is so I can’t help there, sorry 

I had thought the same of Waggies, but after 5°F here 13 months ago I don't see a difference. I saw a lot of variation among fortuneis.

7 hours ago, Stevejr said:

I’m growing both of these varieties outdoors in zone 7b New York with just a frost cover when needed. I would like to know which variety is the hardier one. Thank you.

The one that survives.

42 minutes ago, Jimhardy said:

The one that survives.

He's right, but they should all do well If properly protected.

Hey Steve, those are some nice varieties. Always good to mix up some genetics! With those, I am not sure which one is hardier given the multitude of factors (age, size, weather, individual genetics, soil, light etc... and their interactions) influencing the extent of the damage. In my experience, when young, I have trouble getting "Bulgaria", Waggies, and Nainitals through winters here. I guess we all need some more experience to tell them apart and declare a winner so please keep reporting your experience. Thus far it seems that meaningful differences in hardiness, if any, are small. 
:) 

Nainital is the hardiest on paper.   It's a variety of fortunei from the mountains in India, and was mistakenly sold as takil for a number of years.  Now is Nainital hardier than a regular fortunei? - Probably not.

Bulgaria means nothing - Its a horrible sales gimmick that keeps getting perpetuated.  Any fortunei with slightly stiffer fronds people like to identify as bulgaria, but there is a wide variation in Trachycarpus fortunei.  Some have slightly stiffer and shorter fronds, some longer and messier.

You will read waggie are 5f less cold tolerant than fortunei.  I've never had to put them to the test, so have no experience.

I agree with others I think the cold hardiness is negligible between these three.  Siting will probably play the biggest factor in success in your location.  

My trachycarpus fortunier var bulgaria is for some reason a really fast grower, my little irrigation I only turned on once a week for like 10 minutes really did nothing, but I did fertilize it really well when I planted it. 5-6 Fronds more since planting June 15th, only started growing around a month later and shot up with growth. For cold hardiness it has only seen 15F unprotected.

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

Nainital is the hardiest on paper.   It's a variety of fortunei from the mountains in India, and was mistakenly sold as takil for a number of years.  Now is Nainital hardier than a regular fortunei? - Probably not.

Bulgaria means nothing - Its a horrible sales gimmick that keeps getting perpetuated.  Any fortunei with slightly stiffer fronds people like to identify as bulgaria, but there is a wide variation in Trachycarpus fortunei.  Some have slightly stiffer and shorter fronds, some longer and messier.

You will read waggie are 5f less cold tolerant than fortunei.  I've never had to put them to the test, so have no experience.

I agree with others I think the cold hardiness is negligible between these three.  Siting will probably play the biggest factor in success in your location.  

 

Edited January 30, 20242 yr by ChicagoPalma

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

Nainital is the hardiest on paper.   It's a variety of fortunei from the mountains in India, and was mistakenly sold as takil for a number of years.  Now is Nainital hardier than a regular fortunei? - Probably not.

Bulgaria means nothing - Its a horrible sales gimmick that keeps getting perpetuated.  Any fortunei with slightly stiffer fronds people like to identify as bulgaria, but there is a wide variation in Trachycarpus fortunei.  Some have slightly stiffer and shorter fronds, some longer and messier.

You will read waggie are 5f less cold tolerant than fortunei.  I've never had to put them to the test, so have no experience.

I agree with others I think the cold hardiness is negligible between these three.  Siting will probably play the biggest factor in success in your location.  

^^^ Exactly ^^^ Well stated @Chester B

Naini Tal x Waggie would be my guess. There is a story on DC Tropics with pictures of Bulgaria, Waggie, and Nainital  planted next to eachoter during the cold winter of 2014. The Waggie bit the dust first, then the Bulgaria , The Naini Tal survived. The coldest it got as +5 f. but the cold spell was sustained .

Now I found a different post that says Bulgarian won? https://dctropics.blogspot.com/2014/04/bulgarian-wins.html

Here's the other post  https://dctropics.blogspot.com/2014/03/is-my-palm-dead.html

Nainital and Bulgaria are both hardier than most trachys for me. I had a Nainital from Plant Delights from back when they thought it was a Takil. It survived one winter (2018?) when two nearby Trachys died and is still going strong.  

My Bulgaria was also from Plant Delights. It stayed very small for 7 or 8 years until I transplanted it to a sunnier spot.  It defoliated but survived a winter around zero F when a nearby much larger "Taylor form" was killed.  It took off after transplanting and is doing well in it's current less-protected location - but it hasn't really been tested lately.

If the original Bulgaria palms have died, then I wonder about the genetics in the marketplace today.  Many palms sold today were likely pollinated by a "regular" T fortunei male. The resulting hybrid is probably less hardy.

Attached is the T Nainital.

I'm waiting for more of these named regional Trachycarpus to show up, with varying degrees of winter hardiness & climate resilience. Maybe even some that are more desert dwellers with heat & drought tolerance like, The Iraqi Trachy. 

I think that trachys frequently don't come completely true to the variety of the mother plant because of the genetic influence of the father plant.  The ‘Nainital’ close to the house was supposedly grown from seeds that Martin Gibbons and Tobias Spanner retrieved from their initial discovery (when they mistakenly believed they had discovered T. takli). The young plants growing beneath are a hybrid between the large male T. fortunei nearby and the genetics of the T. Nainital. Consequently, any offspring would likely exhibit intermediate hardiness. Over successive generations, the genetic diversity would gradually diminish. 

My trachycarpus nainital has survived outside for many years since 2005 in freezing cold zone 6 Woodbury CT with heavier protection;

I bought it in 2005 when it was mistakenly marketed as a TAKIL

now that it is above the roof though, it has lost the house as a protection, and was severely defoliated last winter, but came back strong [this photo]

 

this winter though, i have resorted to C9 lights so i dont lose it