Most hardy Livistona

[Jeveion Amaluhu]

Hello, sorry for the other topic, I can't figure out how do delete it. I am planning to grow a Livistona palm. What are the most cold hardy ones? Thank you.

[ZPalms]

I’ve seen mixed reviews for livistona cold hardiness

Livistona chinensis = Bud Hardy but leaves burn so they could look bad year around in cold places

Livistona Nitida = Better leaf Hardiness? grows quicker, not sure about long term success

Livistona decora = Quickest to go palmate from seed, but I haven’t seen any cold hardy information on this one

gathered this information from

 

Edited January 28, 2024 by ZPalms

[Jeveion Amaluhu]

Even if the chinensis leaves burn, will the trunk and roots survive a Zone 7 winter? I've heard they are "Dieback" palms.

[BeyondTheGarden]

There are a few who can chime in with personal experience, I can only cite their observations until they chime in.  

Livistona chinensis is the hardiest variety we know of.  Nitida is said to be more leaf hardy but the bud or growth point is not as hardy as chinensis.  Neither are zone 7 palms.  

When people say it's a dieback palm, they mean it will lose all of its fronds and new ones will grow in the following year.  (edit; if the growth point/trunk dies, the whole thing dies.  It can't grow back from the roots). But above and beyond that, L chinensis have a fairly established record of taking damage in the mid-twenties and dying below 20f, with a few exceptions.  The chart below is from the master data spreadsheet in the freeze damage data forum. 

[RJ]

1 hour ago, Jeveion Amaluhu said:

Even if the chinensis leaves burn, will the trunk and roots survive a Zone 7 winter? I've heard they are "Dieback" palms.

Based on the information provided, no it will not survive. 

[DAVEinMB]

My L. Chinensis took a very long time to recover from a few nights of low teens. There are some posts on here of how they've recovered from single digits but I'd imagine two winters in a row of temps like that would likely do them in, let alone if you're in a zone where they'd see those temps multiple times in a single season. 

[ZPalms]

It's a shame I never got to sprout my livistona c. seeds, They are probably too old to sprout now since its been 2 years and I didn't even get to clean the skins off them

[Alberto]

I grow Livistona decora, L. decipiens, L. saribus and they have all hardier leaves than L. chinensis. I cannot imagine that having leaves that resist better to freezes, the bud also isn' t cold hardier.....

[ShadyDan]

Livistona nitida after -10.3C and ~48 hours below freezing. No protection. Leaves are bronzed pretty bad but I still see green in the petioles. Not expecting it to survive, but the green petioles give me a shred of hope. Others than nitida, I had a chinensis that kicked the can at -5.5C a few years back. 

[ZPalms]

I'm starting to think Livistona nitida is the one to zone push, I could 100% protect this palm, I might have to give it a try 🤠

[ZPalms]

@Joe NC Hows your nitida?

[Meangreen94z]

From what I’ve read and heard from multiple sources Livistona chinensis isn’t as leaf hardy but a few degrees trunk hardier than nitida or decora.  I believe Matt-N-Dallas had a trunking nitida that died in 2021 from 6-7°F on two nights and over 100 hours below freezing, but 1 or 2 smaller specimen with the growth point at either ground level or right above that came back. I believe he wrapped all of them, but no heat. Of course that probably would have killed a trunking chinensis as well.

Livistona nitida and decora seem to die around 12-14°F depending on duration, where as chinensis is closer to 10°F.  

[strongbad635]

1 hour ago, Meangreen94z said:

From what I’ve read and heard from multiple sources Livistona chinensis isn’t as leaf hardy but a few degrees trunk hardier than nitida or decora.  I believe Matt-N-Dallas had a trunking nitida that died in 2021 from 6-7°F on two nights and over 100 hours below freezing, but 1 or 2 smaller specimen with the growth point at either ground level or right above that came back. I believe he wrapped all of them, but no heat. Of course that probably would have killed a trunking chinensis as well.

Livistona nitida and decora seem to die around 12-14°F depending on duration, where as chinensis is closer to 10°F.  

Agree with this assessment.  The chinensis around Houston got burned even during the low 20s freezes of 2018 and 2024, but they're pretty vigorous growers and recovered full crowns by the next fall.  The only nitida I've seen around town are these in the south Galleria area, and they were killed during the 15-degree freeze of Feb 2021.  I still think nitidas are worthy of a good try here in Houston, as they would survive any winter outside of what we experienced in 2021, which was a generational event.

 

[Joe NC]

14 hours ago, ZPalms said:

@Joe NC Hows your nitida?

Still going strong.  Starts showing foliar damage below 20F.  After the cold event last weekend (ultimate low around 19) it has some minor bronzing on some leaves, nothing too terrible.

It quickly pushes out many new fronds once it warms up, and is fast to look good even after severe damage.  I have no idea what temps will cause a spear pull, as I haven't had that happen yet.

It seems like a good one to zone push.

Edited January 29, 2024 by Joe NC

[ZPalms]

On 1/29/2024 at 3:27 PM, Joe NC said:

Still going strong.  Starts showing foliar damage below 20F.  After the cold event last weekend (ultimate low around 19) it has some minor bronzing on some leaves, nothing too terrible.

It quickly pushes out many new fronds once it warms up, and is fast to look good even after severe damage.  I have no idea what temps will cause a spear pull, as I haven't had that happen yet.

It seems like a good one to zone push.

Would love to see an updated photo of it!

Edited February 2, 2024 by ZPalms

[EJPalm05]

I just uncovered my livistona chinensis that I protected with a bucket and mulch and it is 80% damaged from a low of 15F.

[Collectorpalms]

Livistonia Chineses...... I still have 2 left, unprotected for 24 years now. Started with Ten 1 gallon multipot, seperated them. Must have had 20 in total. Tried other rare Livistonia, zero remain. LOL, I just relized I have more Livistonia left than Phoenix ( 0 ) or Washingtonia ( 1 ).

I live on the imaginary east/west line of too humid for desert species like Filifera, and too cold for Robusta. Almost all Filifera lived and Phoenix lived though 4F, only to sucumb to wet rot eventually. 

Also, anything with Jubea blood dropped dead! Its no wonder the Jubea in Dallas and San Antonio died. I had a huge old BxJ that surived zero at the river, only to die this last end of summer. Survived 111 F, 0F, but died after 111F drought then the first rain afterwards, it got crown rot.

[Collectorpalms]

32 minutes ago, EJ NJ said:

I just uncovered my livistona chinensis that I protected with a bucket and mulch and it is 80% damaged from a low of 15F.

Good Job. Keep up with the palms. I believe the hardiest arborecent palm for the eastern USA is Sabal Brazoria. I am so lucky to have this palm. Its more hardy than Birmingham or Louisiana. Possibly hybrid vigor, and maybe not all are equal.

If your in your teens, by retirement it may be 20 feet tall.

[Joe NC]

16 hours ago, ZPalms said:

Would love to see an updated photo of it!

Damage after 19F

Terrible photo but, this is how it looks and how big it is as of 1 Feb 2024.  No protection ever. TBD on how long until it gets killed by a serious winter.

[Xerarch]

To OP, I suppose you've gathered, but no Livistona is hardy to zone 7 without serious protection.  If you are determined to try, I would go with chinensis, and protect heavily below 20*F (-6.7*C).

[ZPalms]

3 hours ago, Joe NC said:

Damage after 19F

Terrible photo but, this is how it looks and how big it is as of 1 Feb 2024.  No protection ever. TBD on how long until it gets killed by a serious winter.

That’s looks great! And if it’s fast those little blemishes get replaced quickly! What kind of soil is it planted in? 🤠

Edited February 2, 2024 by ZPalms

[Joe NC]

On 2/2/2024 at 4:59 PM, ZPalms said:

What kind of soil is it planted in?

Heavy clay soil.  Next to the house in a strip of dirt boxed in by house, driveway, sidewalk and patio.   A good spot as far as protection goes, facing SE directly against a brick wall.  Not so great, because it survived longer than expected and now has to grow away from the house to clear the eaves and roof.  Same SE side of the house supports a decently large unprotected and fruiting satsuma.

[_nevi]

How does livistona australis compare to the other species mentioned in this thread?

[Chester B]

9 hours ago, _nevi said:

How does livistona australis compare to the other species mentioned in this thread?

It's a pretty tough one too.  I know of ones surviving in Salem, Oregon Zone 8B.

[ZPalms]

Is there a spreadsheet for livistona species and recorded data?

[_nevi]

@Chester B, which areas of Salem? Assuming that there are particular microclimates that are more/less prone to cold in that area.

@ZPalms, I think there was one for palms in general. Not sure of any that I know of regarding the livistona genus.

Edited February 16, 2024 by _nevi

[Chester B]

3 hours ago, _nevi said:

@Chester B, which areas of Salem? Assuming that there are particular microclimates that are more/less prone to cold in that area.

@ZPalms, I think there was one for palms in general. Not sure of any that I know of regarding the livistona genus.

I'm not sure where exactly they were planted, but there is one in Silverton, Oregon.

[_nevi]

@Chester B

Based on Silverton's NWS stats,  livistona australis really is indeed quite tough. At least in general regarding the plant as a whole, if not necessarily the foliage.

Edited February 17, 2024 by _nevi

[_nevi]

On 1/29/2024 at 9:54 AM, strongbad635 said:

Agree with this assessment.  The chinensis around Houston got burned even during the low 20s freezes of 2018 and 2024, but they're pretty vigorous growers and recovered full crowns by the next fall.  The only nitida I've seen around town are these in the south Galleria area, and they were killed during the 15-degree freeze of Feb 2021.  I still think nitidas are worthy of a good try here in Houston, as they would survive any winter outside of what we experienced in 2021, which was a generational event.

The post that you replied to stated nitida's death around the 12-14°F mark. So I wonder if it was necessarily the 15°F that killed the Galleria specimen, or if it was more the duration/wintry precip of Feb 21'.

 

[strongbad635]

On 2/16/2024 at 7:33 PM, _nevi said:

The post that you replied to stated nitida's death around the 12-14°F mark. So I wonder if it was necessarily the 15°F that killed the Galleria specimen, or if it was more the duration/wintry precip of Feb 21'.

 

The 2021 cold event was compounded by length (Houston spent more than 24 hours below freezing, Dallas spent almost TWO WEEKS below freezing), and the fact that it was a wet cold event, while the Dec 2022 and Jan 2024 events were dry events, which is why the palms here are showing much less damage this year.

[Harry’s Palms]

I have both a L. Chinensis and a L. Australis . The Chinensis is slower growing and much fuller in appearance but if I were to choose , I would choose the Australis . It has a smaller trunk and a unique look to the fronds , they are deeply divided like spokes. I don’t know about cold hardiness as I live in a 9b-10a zone . I rarely see anything below 38f. 

[kristof p]

I grow L. chinensis outside in Belguim zone 8b/9a. I wrap the leaves in fleece when there is a cold spell. So far so good for the last 7 or 8 winters surviving temperatures as low as -8°C with little to no damage protected this way. Before I started to protect it only with fleece I used to build a little greenhouse over it keeping it almost frost free. It's been in the ground since 2006. It is growing in the shade and is even slower growing like this in our cool climate but I love the big green leaves of this species.

[ZPalms]

Is there such a thing as a L. Chinensis x L. Nitida or L. Nitida x L. Chinensis hybrid?

Edited February 26, 2024 by ZPalms

[tarnado]

On 2/25/2024 at 9:52 PM, ZPalms said:

Is there such a thing as a L. Chinensis x L. Nitida or L. Nitida x L. Chinensis hybrid?

Re-upping - anyone working on Livistona intraspecies hybrids???

[Chester B]

1 minute ago, tarnado said:

Re-upping - anyone working on Livistona intraspecies hybrids???

I've had a couple of Livistona hyrbids, with one in the garden right now, but neither has nitida or chinensis in it.

[tarnado]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

I've had a couple of Livistona hyrbids, with one in the garden right now, but neither has nitida or chinensis in it.

Awesome. I hope they stay strong for yall! What hybrids are you working with now?

[Chester B]

46 minutes ago, tarnado said:

Awesome. I hope they stay strong for yall! What hybrids are you working with now?

I'd have to go look at the tag.  I think its rigida x decora.  I had some mariae x decora but gave some away and ended up killing the rest due to lack of watering.

[Matthew92]

There are some plantings of Livistona nitida on the north edge of my town along a state highway interchange. They were planted sometime in 2017 and that winter (Jan 2018) got to 18 deg. Those areas just to the north get much colder than closer to the bay in town, so they sure received the brunt of it. I remember there were a lot of brown leaves, but they all came back the next year.

Fastforward to the horrible 2022 Christmas freeze with 18 degrees the first night and low 20's the next 2 nights. The first night the temp was at 22 deg or below for several hours. Stayed in the 30's the next 2 days from what I remember. Just an extremely brutal freeze on everything.

Unfortunately, the long durations did some of those trees in and now there's maybe less than 5 left. But those remaining even survived the next winter (this past winter) with a shorter duration freeze to 19 deg very well. 

So from my observations, they can tolerate a dip into the upper teens quite well as long as it isn't very long durations in the hard freezing range.

[ZPalms]

I bought a nitida a couple months ago and so far its pretty cool, I'm protecting it this winter since it still needs to grow up more!

[tarnado]

1 hour ago, Matthew92 said:

So from my observations, they can tolerate a dip into the upper teens quite well as long as it isn't very long durations in the hard freezing range.

Ja. Up here (far northwest) we don't have a lot of hear in the spring to get things going after hard winters, plus the wet damp... then we moved further north to a place that gets these 'Squamish' winter winds. Essentially, a huge dome of frigid air in Alberta or some ungodly place like that spills over the Rockies/Cascades and pours down through the Fraser River canyon and floods our lowlands with temps in the teens or single digits (F). Sigh.